Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[LDS714]

You haven't been to NYC Lately have you.

Crawl --> Walk --> Run

They're still crawling. Haven't found the sweet spot for demonization (however it's spelled) yet, but they're getting there...

And FWIW, since the vaping ban I WON'T be going to visit. If I have to for business I will, but not to spend disposable income. Same for Chicago, et al...

 

[Myk]

The campaign to stigmatize soda drinkers hasn't hit it's stride yet.

The same Chicago Democrat who tried to completely ban ecigs in IL long before there was a population of vapers to have rude public vapers (and backed off her own ban once she learned about them from CASAA members) just proposed a soda tax.

 

[Jman8]

Two Sentence is a Rant? LOL

But this is the Heart of Why wv2win and I Disagree.

wv2win believes that we should Use an e-Cigarette Everywhere. And that by doing so we are Somehow Educating People.

I side with wv2win on this, minus the "should" part. I advocate for vape everywhere.

Where as I have a More Moderate Approach. And believe in Asking First. And respecting the Wishes of Business Owners who Do Not Want vaping in the Establishments.

I am okay with asking first, yet also okay with following up a no with "why not?" And getting into the discussion and perhaps I'll be educated on some legitimate reasons for why not. Thus far it hasn't happened and of the people I've asked and said no, it was based on ANTZ lies (that all political vapers are aware of) or it was me being told "because I said so, end of discussion." Both situations indicated it isn't about respect then, and as such I may still vape there, and they will never know. So, I did ask, out of respect and they chose to be disrespectful and I still chose to vape in their place, with respect to people around me.

If you Don't Believe that the Disrespectful Use of e-Cigarettes by a Small Percentage of User can not Hurt the Entire Vaping Community, you are Entitled to your Opinion.

I don't believe you understand what a disrespectful vaper actually is, nor am I convinced you've seen any or for sure not many. Perhaps you have, but as I'm entitled to my opinion, and given discourse of this thread, it seems like you are saying it is simply rude in all cases to vape indoors. Or at very least in most cases.

I'm also wondering how you would respond to question I asked earlier in this thread. If a fellow vaper deemed it inherently rude to vape outdoors in public, how would respond to that person (vaper)? Would you think if they stuck by that position that they are carrying the torch for ANTZ with regards to where vaping is permissible and not permissible?

 

[Jay-dub]

You didn't take offense at anything said in response to your "tea bag" comment did you? Glass houses?

Valid point. I appreciate you pointing out a hypocrisy. I'd rather not be a part of such a thing. I need to establish the habit of saying "conspiracy theorist" or something less dismissive. I do see a difference in "Tea Bagger" vs. "Nazi" classifications but if both terms are basically being utilized in the same way I'd prefer to drop them. Thanks.

If it were ONLY the Democrats...
The fact that some Republicans are in on it doesn't change the fact that it's primarily Democrats.
Come to IL and you usually won't see much difference between the two parties.

Allow me to point out that despite saying you don't see a difference between the two parties, you also tend to insist on a distinction. As you have done here.

 

[zoiDman]

I side with wv2win on this, minus the "should" part. I advocate for vape everywhere.
...

I believe that I have heard you state your "Vape Everywhere" position Many Times.

It isn't one I believe in.

And I feel that Many Times, it Can do More Harm than Good when Dealing with a General Population that Outnumbers, and can Out Vote Vapers by more than 100 to 1.

 

[Jman8]

I believe that I have heard you state you "Vape Everywhere" position Many Times.

It isn't one I believe in.

And I feel that Many Times, it Can do More Harm than Good when Dealing with a General Population that Outnumbers, and can Out Vote Vapers by more than 100 to 1.

Or could do more help than not. As people get to see example of it, and thus could outnumber ANTZ by more than 100 to 1.

You think this can only be spun one way, and others have spoken in this thread to show it can go the other way. Unless fellow vapers are present, who think it just 'crazy disrespectful' to vape indoors, in that location. But we have person in this thread who vaped with doctors and nurses and children were present. So, the only people here that might see that as 'crazy disrespectful' are fellow vapers. While I believe many vapers see that as a tide is turning and ANTZ lies are no longer permeating the decorum of the situation.

How bout this, if a disrespectful vaper came into your house and vaped in such a way that you found to be highly disrespectful, would that lead you to ban vaping from your property? If not, why not?

 

[Jay-dub]

...

...

Both of you are just as right as you are wrong. At the risk of sounding like a broken record - no one approach will work on everyone. Yes, Jman's approach may be effective on some personalities but it may also be abrasive to others. The same goes for zoiDman's approach. Why does there have to be one way when there are so many different personalities and people we're supposedly trying to reach?

 

[Bramble]

The same Chicago Democrat who tried to completely ban ecigs in IL long before there was a population of vapers to have rude public vapers (and backed off her own ban once she learned about them from CASAA members) just proposed a soda tax.

The hate machine is getting ramped up against overweight people and in turn some are lashing back against people who are trying to lose weight. I was once called a hater because I was happy with myself after losing a lot of weight

Ssems like we just have to have some hate war going on about something that is quite frankly not other people's business.

 

[zoiDman]

Or could do more help than not. As people get to see example of it, and thus could outnumber ANTZ by more than 100 to 1.

...

Any Issue can be Looked at from Both Sides. But what a Reasonable Person does is Which One is More Likely to Happen.

I am Not Saying that If a Person Vapes Anywhere and Everywhere they Chose such as I have heard you Post that you do, that Some People will Not be Educated by your Actions.

What I Disagree with is the Notion that there will be More People will become Pro-Vaping verses the Number of People who You Piss Off and will become what you Like to call ANTZ.

 

[zoiDman]

Both of you are just as right as you are wrong. At the risk of sounding like a broken record - no one approach will work on everyone. Yes, Jman's approach may be effective on some personalities but it may also be abrasive to others. The same goes for zoiDman's approach. Why does there have to be one way when there are so many different personalities and people we're supposedly trying to reach?

I'm Not sure How Not Vaping someplace that you are Asked Not To is going to Upset Many People. But I wonder if the Same can be Said about the Other Side of the Coin?

And you Know me well Enough Jay-dub that I am Not Trying to Convert JMan8 to my way of Thinking by replying to his Posts.

I'm replying so that someone Else may read what I have to say who May be More Moderate and More in the Middle of this Topic. So that they might Gain a Perspective that helps them Form what They think is the Best way to Interact with Non-Vapers in Public.

 

[Jman8]

Why does there have to be one way when there are so many different personalities and people we're supposedly trying to reach?

IMO, the vape everywhere position allows for several ways. It, of course, says yes to indoor vaping. But as I don't always feel like vaping, I don't always vape everywhere I go. The vape everywhere perspective doesn't give you free pass to be disrespectful by going up to people and blowing clouds in their faces. Or if you do that, you could be kicked out, not because you vaped, but because you were rude. Again, similar to if I went up to someone shopping in any store and just started blowing on them. They ask me to stop, and I blow harder. I'd imagine I'd get kicked out at some point. Not because I was 'simply exhaling air,' but because of my being rude.

The bans on vaping indoors, no questions asked, you will obey because we said so, only go one way. And in discussions like this can only go one way, which equals control. You can still vape in those locations, just not so easily or so openly. But those ban approaches that say don't do it here because it looks like smoke and smoking is banned, or we don't know what's in those things therefore they are dangerous, are easy to exploit for the fallacious reasoning being employed. I think they need to be exploited. I don't usually exploit them and in fact rarely do, but I do, and will likely continue to do so.

When I do start blowing my exhaled vape directly into people's faces and continue to do so regardless of what they say to me, then I expect to be treated how a rude vaper would be treated regardless of where that occurs. If I'm in another persons house who is on side of "vape everywhere" and I am rude vaper in their house, I would expect to be kicked out of their house for being rude. But not for being a vaper, nor for vaping indoors.

 

[Uma]

Thanks Jpargana and Anjaffan! I'm so glad it is helpful towards filling in those gaps.
P.s. It's great to see you again Anja!!

 

[LDS714]

I believe that I have heard you state your "Vape Everywhere" position Many Times.

It isn't one I believe in.

And I feel that Many Times, it Can do More Harm than Good when Dealing with a General Population that Outnumbers, and can Out Vote Vapers by more than 100 to 1.

So then you would resist his position being forced on you? I'm just sayin'...

My anecdotal evidence has show that most non-vapers know someone who smokes and appreciate learning about it. I've had dozens of discussions about it with curious strangers, even in places where you would say not to vape. I've even stayed in contact with a couple who interested friends/family members in vaping. One gentleman went so far as to take my phone number and then call me a couple of days later from Vol Vapor while he was shopping for a PV & juice for his daughter in law for Christmas.

I have one friend that goes so far as to avoid even standing close to someone who smokes so as to avoid "third hand smoke" (I said friend, I didn't say friend of average intelligence or above, LOL) who goes so far as asking me to vape in his car because he likes the smell of some of the juices so much (particularly Cyclops Poseidon and Mister-E's Neptune).

So yeah, my experience kind of runs contrary to what you're saying. But like I said, it's anecdotal evidence and YMMV.

 

[zapped]

The whole "vape anywhere" attitude will be the undoing of ecigs.

I've vaped since 2009..if someone blew a cloud around my child, I'd say something..Especially in a doc's office. WTH? That's pretty douchey imo.

As a matter of fact, I think not saying anything to someone that is doing something along these lines is..well- cowardly.

Go vape in the bathroom/hallway/elevator/outside..where ever. Point being, people are never going to accept folks blowing clouds of vape in certain places. Period.

You can be as militant about vaping as you want..but your "habit" shouldn't invade other's space. When it does, don't be shocked to hear about it from them.

edit:lol at Mr. Doughnuts..peace out

I respectfully disagree on the go to the bathroom, elevator or hallway comment. Hiding our vaping like were doing something wrong is the surest way to make people fear it. If we allow people to treat us like smokers its also the surest way be discriminated against.

If you were bent over double behind a tree doing something as innocent as eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich your actions would mark you as suspicious at best. This is no different.

I do agree with you that manners along with a little tact and decorum go a long way.

Im not blowing plumes in babys faces but Im not going to hide it either.

 

[Bramble]

So then you would resist his position being forced on you? I'm just sayin'...

My anecdotal evidence has show that most non-vapers know someone who smokes and appreciate learning about it. I've had dozens of discussions about it with curious strangers, even in places where you would say not to vape. I've even stayed in contact with a couple who interested friends/family members in vaping. One gentleman went so far as to take my phone number and then call me a couple of days later from Vol Vapor while he was shopping for a PV & juice for his daughter in law for Christmas.

I have one friend that goes so far as to avoid even standing close to someone who smokes so as to avoid "third hand smoke" (I said friend, I didn't say friend of average intelligence or above, LOL) who goes so far as asking me to vape in his car because he likes the smell of some of the juices so much (particularly Cyclops Poseidon and Mister-E's Neptune).

So yeah, my experience kind of runs contrary to what you're saying. But like I said, it's anecdotal evidence and YMMV.

I do think it's crucial that people see the difference between vaping and smoking, first hand. I saw some inane argument from NY saying "vaping bans are needed so that people don't confuse it with smoking..." and thought wow that's a person who has never been around someone who is vaping. There is no confusion, not even from 20 feet away. If you see someone doing something that looks like smoking tobacco, but you don't smell tobacco as you draw near, they are not smoking and you can stop freaking out.

 

[zoiDman]

So then you would resist his position being forced on you? I'm just sayin'...

My anecdotal evidence has show that most non-vapers know someone who smokes and appreciate learning about it. I've had dozens of discussions about it with curious strangers, even in places where you would say not to vape. I've even stayed in contact with a couple who interested friends/family members in vaping. One gentleman went so far as to take my phone number and then call me a couple of days later from Vol Vapor while he was shopping for a PV & juice for his daughter in law for Christmas.

I have one friend that goes so far as to avoid even standing close to someone who smokes so as to avoid "third hand smoke" (I said friend, I didn't say friend of average intelligence or above, LOL) who goes so far as asking me to vape in his car because he likes the smell of some of the juices so much (particularly Cyclops Poseidon and Mister-E's Neptune).

So yeah, my experience kind of runs contrary to what you're saying. But like I said, it's anecdotal evidence and YMMV.

I think just about Everyone who has Used an e-Cigarette for more than a Short Time has gotten the chance to Educate and or Inform a Smoker about e-Cigarettes. I know I have. Many Times.

 

[Baldr]

Never Mind. I think you Answered my Question in this Post.

No. Because your previous question had to do with "where vaping is not allowed". Then you quoted him in a situation where he could go an ask, but it would probably take an extremely long time to find building management. It wasn't a "you know it isn't allowed" situation.

I Am Curious. Is There A Reason That You Capitalize Almost Every Word In Almost Every Post? Do You Think That R Make U Look Smrtrz!?

 

[Uma]

Is this an argument about clouds, the act of vaping, or the usage of nicotine?
If I were a business owner who supported Vapers, but not clouds, I would post a sign illustrating "no clouds allowed, stealth vaping only"
If I were a business owner who didn't support Vapers quitting smoking, I would post a sign illustrating "no vaping whatsoever allowed".
If I were a business owner who understood the importance of HVAQ, various body odors, various personalities, and respected all people I would post a sign illustrating "welcome all, but be courteous! "
This is pretty much a no brainer. Yet, in threads like this, the terms vaping, clouds, & nicotine usage seem to become tangled.
The geographical differences of the term "everywhere" become tangled as well.
Perhaps everyone needs a moniker to represent their intentions. Maybe a color code.
Purple means "welcome all but be courteous!" It was my idear, so I get to choose the first color.

 

[zoiDman]

No. Because your previous question had to do with "where vaping is not allowed". Then you quoted him in a situation where he could go an ask, but it would probably take an extremely long time to find building management. It wasn't a "you know it isn't allowed" situation.

I Am Curious. Is There A Reason That You Capitalize Almost Every Word In Almost Every Post? Do You Think That R Make U Look Smrtrz!?

It was a Leading Question anyway. Because I Know his position on it.

Just say the capitalized words Louder and with More emphasis. I call it "Text Inflection".

LOL

 

[Myk]

Valid point. I appreciate you pointing out a hypocrisy. I'd rather not be a part of such a thing. I need to establish the habit of saying "conspiracy theorist" or something less dismissive. I do see a difference in "Tea Bagger" vs. "Nazi" classifications but if both terms are basically being utilized in the same way I'd prefer to drop them. Thanks.



Allow me to point out that despite saying you don't see a difference between the two parties, you also tend to insist on a distinction. As you have done here.

I meant the squishy minds.
I'm completely serious about the Nazi comparison. Give them time. I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think the original anti-smokers intended for what is going on now to go on. I think what happened is some little kid like me who was brainwashed never grew out of it and started thinking for themselves. Like many Brownshirts they believed and they grew up to be the ANTZ we have now. So what happens when they who think they should take the kids away from smokers get done brainwashing the next leaders? Will they be willing to put people who breaks a smoking ban to death? I can see them justifying that just like their present zealotry allows them to justify things that are crossing the line.

In IL you USUALLY don't see much difference between Republican and Democrat because to win a statewide job you need the Chicago vote. That causes a lot of RHINOs to be in the party which waters down what being a Republican is.
As far as federal goes they're BASICALLY the same, the difference is who's rights they are willing to destroy.

And this is where I found your tea bagger slur to be ludicrous. They are the ones most likely to not be corrupt and willing to destroy anyone's rights. If there is any hope it's with the Tea Party causing both parties to change and start doing what they're supposed to be doing. (But I have no hope, I think the money is big enough to corrupt anyone who goes to DC.)
I don't see the Democrat voters even attempting to change their party for the better.
What's worse is there are voters for both parties that want them both to continue getting worse.