Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Every law we make is a form of self-restriction. We don't make them for ourselves, everybody thinks we don't need any laws and that laws are for other people too stupid or corrupt to do the right thing in the first place. Even deciding what is the "right thing" is a democratic legislative process. Suppose that is really just the way it is and answers nothing.

Far easier to tolerate nice and polite people who don't shove every right and freedom down everyone else's throat.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Far easier to tolerate nice and polite people who don't shove every right and freedom down everyone else's throat.

Very Well Put Ohms.

Sometimes the Nice and Polite People are what one person referred to as the "Silent Majority".

 

[Jman8]

I'm sorry Jman8

I'm just not going to vape in...

Grocery Stores
Hospitals
Churches
Funerals
Classrooms
Gas Stations
Or around Children

Not looking for a Debate. Just not going to Vape in these Places out of Respect for those Around me.

If not looking for a debate, then I'll just respond with saying this didn't address my question. Your personal preference on where you choose not to vape is noted though.

Oh, and apology accepted.

 

[Jman8]

Far easier to tolerate nice and polite people who don't shove every right and freedom down everyone else's throat.

I'd take the latter over those who seek bans based on manipulation and control. Though would highlight "shove every .... down throats" as hyperbole speaking.

 

[zoiDman]

If not looking for a debate, then I'll just respond with saying this didn't address my question. Your personal preference on where you choose not to vape is noted though.

Oh, and apology accepted.

JTBC - A Question was Asked. An Answer was Given. No Apology was Extended.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

I'd take the latter over those who seek bans based on manipulation and control. Though would highlight "shove every .... down throats" as hyperbole speaking.

Yeah, I always forget to highlight my hyperbole. My editor is always on my .... about that too.

 

[sonicdsl]

Stop pointing fingers at each other... stop the name-calling... stop the snarky responses... this is not how we expect the behavior to be at ECF.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html

7. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not. If attacked you are not allowed to respond in kind. Instead use the Private Message system and try to resolve matters privately and amicably. If problems persist ask for the help of a Moderator.

Last warning...

 

[Anjaffm]

Let me just repeat one of the most relevant posts on public vaping made in this thread.

It is well worth reading. It tells how vaping bans are made and for what reason.
And it tells clearly that vaping bans have nothing whatsoever to do with the behavior of individual vapers.

Our politicians are not doing "the voters will" because the public is outraged over vaping. There is no public "outcry" against vaping. That is an irrational fear that many vapers hold to and justifies their self righteous anger when they see someone else do it...."they'll ruin it for everyone" is the common clarion cry.

No, the overwhelming evidence is that the politicians and policy makers are responding to $$$$. When the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement was done in 1998. Big Tobacco agreed to pay 10 BILLION dollars to states as part of the settlement in perpetuity. This money is SUPPOSED to be used for public health initiatives and to prevent tobacco use in kids.

The idea was keep kids from smoking and let existing smokers die out. States soon realized that if there were no new smokers, then their settlement funds would dry up. After all, the settlement is based on percentage of sales. So a majority of states have done NOTHING to prevent youth smoking with the exception of public service announcements and the creation of organizations of groups like Tobacco Free Kids. Also, the states continue to pass groundless legislation that restricts WHERE you can smoke, but not where you can buy them. This is why you don't see State run Tobacco stores. The idea is keep them readily accessible, so that you can continue to collect your settlement funds.

Now comes e-cigs, which have grown into a 1 Billion dollar industry and our elected officials are now looking at a product that not only negatively impacts CURRENT tobacco sales, but has the potential to negatively impact future tobacco sales. Here is a product that could actually fulfill the goals set out by the MSA. Here is a product that actually could replace smoking, AND effectively shut out 46 states of roughly 10 Billion dollars a year.

And SHOCK...Youth smokers are turning to e-cigs as well. OH OH....10 BILLION Dollars per year to the 46 member states is now in jeopardy... AND don't think Big Tobacco isn't reminding states of this as well. If we don't sell our product, you don't get your money. So now we hear the "Save The Children" cry regarding e-cigs.....

So now the states are pressuring their local communities to ban e-cigs wherever smoking is banned and telling local communities if they don't pass these restrictions, they don't get a share of the Tobacco money because they are "non compliant". Meanwhile, States are attempting to ban internet sales, because a large part of the Billion dollar industry is based on internet sales.

As a result, towns and states are trying to kill the industry that can effectively cost them 10 Billion dollars a year alone in settlement money, not to mention the tobacco tax they receive based on sales, and vapers think that public vaping is the reason.....Wake up!!!

Follow the money.

Let me also repeat a link which backs up this post:

Few dare call it bribery: OK grants, e-cigs, and another brick in the wall

Vaping bans are issued for money. For $$$$.
That's the long and the short of it.

And anybody who claims otherwise obviously does not have the knowledge.

That is why many vapers in this forum are working hard to educate others on the reality.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

So I suppose all this right here is why vapers are getting a bad name huh. Not trying to be snarky. I hold these truths to be self-evident.

 

[p.opus]

So I suppose all this right here is why vapers are getting a bad name huh. Not trying to be snarky. I hold these truths to be self-evident.

Where have vapers been getting a "bad name"? I certainly are not aware of it.

The original vaper had an issue with another vaper vaping in a doctor's waiting room in front of children and titled this thread "Why Vapers are getting a bad name".

If you could give me any examples where there is public outcry because of rude vapers, I'd surely like to see it.

Vapers, especially new ones, join the ranks of vapers fresh off the shame and self loathing that we as smokers have been programmed to feel, and when we see another person vaping in a non smoking area, we all get our panties in a bunch and say....SEE....This is why vapers are getting a bad name.

In my experience, the only ones who are holding a grudge against vapers are....other vapers. I have found the experience I have had with other non smokers to be quite positive. A friend of mine thought it was great that I quit smoking, appreciated that I no longer smelt like an ashtray, and welcomed me to vape in his home.

Perhaps the thread should be renamed Why Vapers think other vapers are giving vapers a bad name.

And as far as I'm concerned, some of the boorish behavior on both sides of the aisle since I have last visited this thread, is more disturbing than me seeing another vaper vaping in public...

 

[sonicdsl]

Where have vapers been getting a "bad name"? I certainly are not aware of it.

The original vaper had an issue with another vaper vaping in a doctor's waiting room in front of children and titled this thread "Why Vapers are getting a bad name".

If you could give me any examples where there is public outcry because of rude vapers, I'd surely like to see it.

<...>

I saw many quotes from non-smokers and non-vapers on a local television station's FB page when they ran a story about including vaping in a local suburb's public smoking bans. Many of them stated that they did not appreciate some of the vapers blowing vapor at them or around them, and some seemed quite adamant about blowing as big of a cloud as they could and making it as obvious as possible.

Of course, many were biased, I'm sure, but the perception is there to some degree, whether or not it is the reality.

 

[zoiDman]

I saw many quotes from non-smokers and non-vapers on a local television station's FB page when they ran a story about including vaping in a local suburb's public smoking bans. Many of them stated that they did not appreciate some of the vapers blowing vapor at them or around them, and some seemed quite adamant about blowing as big of a cloud as they could and making it as obvious as possible.

Of course, many were biased, I'm sure, but the perception is there to some degree, whether or not it is the reality.

And Unfortunately, these are the Type of People who tend to Sign Petitions and to Write to their State and Local Reps.

If think this is a Very Pertinent post and perhaps it has been Lost in the Shuffle seeing that it was the 7th post of over 550.

And should those folks EVER get an opportunity to vote on a BAN of e-vaporizers ...... how ya think they will lean?

Did others in the room here you? Add 'em to the list.

Way behind already, huh?

Senile Old Man Don

 

[hippiebrian]

I read this whole thread, and my head hurts.

Can't we use a little common sense? I know that SHV isn't going to harm anyone, therefore I would not have confronted the woman for vaping in the waiting room. It would make no sense to me, as she's really harming no one. That being said, I would never vape in a doctor's waiting room, espescially with kids present. Why, you may ask? Because people are insane about their children. They are going to get upset about something they know nothing about and, with their kids there, they are NOT going to be able to be educated about it, so I'd just avoid it altogether. Same as in a store. As soon as you hear "can't you see my child is right here?" you are not going to educate that person.

Now anywhere else, say in the corner of a resturant away from diners, in a coffee shop, in a bar, what have you, I will continue to vape. Now if someone asks me to stop, I will apologize with a "Sorry, I did not know you were sensitive to water vapor" then explain to them exactly what is in the air and inform them their health is in no way in danger, but if it really bothers them I will either stop or move elsewhere.

While vaping in no way should be compared to smoking, as one does no harm and one obviously does, we need to use some common sense around the non-educated public.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Evil Spock has plenty of reasons to hate everybody, I don't need or rely on vaping alone.

Okay if I just get back to joking around with you guys? My quota of trying to convince strangers of anything on the internet has been filled for the week.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Now anywhere else, say in the corner of a resturant away from diners, in a coffee shop, in a bar, what have you, I will continue to vape. Now if someone asks me to stop, I will apologize with a "Sorry, I did not know you were sensitive to water vapor" then explain to them exactly what is in the air and inform them their health is in no way in danger, but if it really bothers them I will either stop or move elsewhere.

While vaping in no way should be compared to smoking, as one does no harm and one obviously does, we need to use some common sense around the non-educated public.

Hey hippiebrian,

Do you know if the Yard House in the Shore Line Marina still allows e-Cigarettes in the Patio area?

I know that they did at one time. But that they had Many Problems with people acting Disrespectfully of other Patrons.

 

[Anjaffm]

@hippiebrian:

well said. Vape respectfully and with common sense

-------------

Vapers, especially new ones, join the ranks of vapers fresh off the shame and self loathing that we as smokers have been programmed to feel, and when we see another person vaping in a non smoking area, we all get our panties in a bunch and say....SEE....This is why vapers are getting a bad name.

In my experience, the only ones who are holding a grudge against vapers are....other vapers. I have found the experience I have had with other non smokers to be quite positive. A friend of mine thought it was great that I quit smoking, appreciated that I no longer smelt like an ashtray, and welcomed me to vape in his home.

Perhaps the thread should be renamed Why Vapers think other vapers are giving vapers a bad name.

I fully agree.
My non-smoking friends and colleagues are elated that I no longer smell of smoke and that my health is a lot better.
Strangers sometimes ask "what is this" and when I tell them, they think it is a great idea.
Even my 83-year-old mother - who has been an adamant anti-smoker since the 1970s - congratulated me on making this healthier choice and has no problem with me vaping in her house.

To me, coming from a home forum that is very supportive of vaping, I am often amazed to find open anti-vaping sentiments expressed by vapers, in a vaping forum. Must be a cultural difference. Maybe in Europe, we did not get as brainwashed by rabid anti-smokers as people did in the States.

And yes, the only open anti-vaping sentiments (outside the circles of those who get paid to demonize e-cigs) that I have experienced have been right here, on ECF.

That is why it is important, to my mind, to educate new vapers on vaping. What it is, what it isn't, what it does, what it doesn't do. And so on.

A good place to start reading is the ECF Library.. It is full of valuable knowledge. And knowledge is the only thing that can conquer fears. Especially irrational fears.

Vape on!
and do some reading. The insights are fascinating

 

[wv2win]

@hippiebrian:

well said. Vape respectfully and with common sense

-------------



I fully agree.
My non-smoking friends and colleagues are elated that I no longer smell of smoke and that my health is a lot better.
Strangers sometimes ask "what is this" and when I tell them, they think it is a great idea.
Even my 83-year-old mother - who has been an adamant anti-smoker since the 1970s - congratulated me on making this healthier choice and has no problem with me vaping in her house.

To me, coming from a home forum that is very supportive of vaping, I am often amazed to find open anti-vaping sentiments expressed by vapers, in a vaping forum. Must be a cultural difference. Maybe in Europe, we did not get as brainwashed by rabid anti-smokers as people did in the States.

And yes, the only open anti-vaping sentiments (outside the circles of those who get paid to demonize e-cigs) that I have experienced have been right here, on ECF.

That is why it is important, to my mind, to educate new vapers on vaping. What it is, what it isn't, what it does, what it doesn't do. And so on.

A good place to start reading is the ECF Library.. It is full of valuable knowledge. And knowledge is the only thing that can conquer fears. Especially irrational fears.

Vape on!
and do some reading. The insights are fascinating

Good commentary. Instead of just encouraging people to use common sense and respect in how they vape, there are those on ECF who like to judge others and use the blanket judgement of "don't vape where smoking is banned", period.

 

[hippiebrian]

Hey hippiebrian,

Do you know if the Yard House in the Shore Line Marina still allows e-Cigarettes in the Patio area?

I know that they did at one time. But that they had Many Problems with people acting Disrespectfully of other Patrons.

It's been a while, but I never ran into any problems. I say go for it until someone says differently.

 

[Uma]

I'm sorry Jman8

I'm just not going to Vape in...

Grocery Stores
Hospitals
Churches
Funerals
Classrooms
Gas Stations
Or around Children

Not looking for a Debate. Just not going to Vape in these Places out of Respect for those Around me.

i think that's how most of us feel, in general, when time spent is minimum.
For instance, at work, we are given breaks.
Hospitals? Only during long visits, and then I'll stealth vape.
Shopping usually takes 30-60 minutes. But, there are times we are stuck inside that store for over 4 hours, without breaks. Some people are very uncomfortable around other people, or stressed when shopping. I do believe a stealth vape when needed is perfectly fine during times like that. Others might think 15 minutes is too long to be stuck in a store! I have no right to judge others.
Vaping during a church service is up to the pastor. I've never seen it in my area, but that doesn't mean it's not ok in other areas. It's up to the church itself. An hour sermon is no big deal to sleep ... Errr, I mean, sit through. If it's a big special potluck day, I'll ask permission or sneak puffs in the restroom as needed. Or not attend at all. Most pastors would rather we attend, get an earful, & will coach where & when & how.
Funerals. Nope, wouldn't there either. But, at a wake, oh yeh! In fact, I vaped a lot during my brothers wake last month, while the others smoked. We were all cool with each other.
Classrooms? Twould depend on the teacher, the class, the environment, the length of the class. Their rules apply. I might stealth a vape if taking a test or really stressed. It would be nice if they allowed stealth vaping in general.
Gas stations, nah. Too busy anyway.
Around children? Depends on the situation. The parents might be smokers, their siblings might be smokers, they might know I used to smoke and don't anymore because of the eCig. I won't share "enjoyment" about the vape in anyway, but I will share how I no longer smoke. The kids of today are witnessing not smoking tools. They are becoming conditioned to a smokefree world. Kids will ask the next smoker why they smoke instead of using a stop smoking tool. It's up to the TSET groups to educate against smoking, not stop smoking tools. The sooner we all get on the same page, the better the world will be.
It all adds up to the same thing... I won't at all, except when.... and it's the when that needs to remain decriminalized.
Just my thoughts. It's like we're all on the same page, respectfully.
Ask your B&M to hold etiquette classes, how to stealth vape, etc...

 

[zoiDman]

It's been a while, but I never ran into any problems. I say go for it until someone says differently.

I haven't been there in a Long Time either.

I used to know a Waitress there. She would come down to my boat (I have a boat in the Marina) after work.

I know that the Manager at that time was Pro-Vaping. But was having lots of Problems with People Blowing Plumes and was getting complaints from other Customers. Last I heard, vaping Wasn't Allowed in the Dining or at the Bar. But it was still OK on the Patio. But that might be Banned also.