Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[zoiDman]

I guess it's time for me to admit that some people actually do get a buzz from nicotine.
I never did, and I had a hard time believing anyone ever did.

...

You Push the Big Button on your Mech mod using 60mg PG Nicotine Base in a Sub-Ohm rba and it will Probably Ring Your Bell.

 

[Myk]

I see vaper's Everyday. But then again, I see a Lot of People Everyday.

Guess it is the Downside to Living in and Area that has an Extremely High Population Density.

That's why I wasn't disbelieving when you said you were in CA.

I don't even recall people being "rude" with smoking around here. It's been the anti-smokers who got rude even long ago when smoking in public was allowed and common. (Stupid yes, throwing your cigarette down and stepping on it in a carpeted grocery store was extremely stupid, as was having a carpeted grocery store.)

Would it Surprise you that there is a Grow Fad/Trend among Some people where I am of Using 48mg or 60mg e-Liquids and Uncut Nicotine Bases?

Nope, NJOY Kings are 30mg and 45mg. It all depends on delivery.
I also saw your reply about getting a buzz. That doesn't surprise me either. Kids are using patches and gum to increase brain power too.
Not too much surprises me.

 

[Jay-dub]

Why are you being defeatist now? You can get the network and organize the method.

For me to be able to address your question - I'd need you to provide me with an example. Is it because I know I can't do this all by myself? I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I do know I've been provided clear examples of what I DON'T WANT TO DO. Some of those examples I've provided myself. So please don't think I'm pointing fingers.

 

[DC2]

You Push the Big Button on your Mech Mod using 60mg PG Nicotine Base in a Sub-Ohm RBA and it will Probably Ring Your Bell.

I'm thinking it would make me puke.

 

[DC2]

Okay, but um, like smoking isn't banned everywhere because at some point a bunch of rude smokers screwed it up for the majority. Nor does anyone ever cite this as the reason why.

The Los Angeles city council is getting ready to ban vaping where smoking is not allowed.
It appears the stated reason is that it threatens to re-normalize smoking.

I'm not sure if it was New York, Chicago, or both that used that same reason.

We now live in a world where social engineering is a perfectly acceptable reason to pass a law that makes no scientific sense.
And we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting this happen.

 

[zoiDman]

Okay, but um, like smoking isn't banned everywhere because at some point a bunch of rude smokers screwed it up for the majority. Nor does anyone ever cite this as the reason why.

Almost everything that is banned indoors is not based on this hypothetical minority that screwed it up for the whole. Was alcohol banned in the early 20th century because of a minority screwing it up for the majority? Perhaps, to some degree you could keep poking that stick and find some degree of truth to it, but reality doesn't match up with that rationale.

What I feel you are not getting and perhaps may not get until it is too late, is that for our opposition, vaping is rude/disrespectful wherever it is done. Outdoors or in your own property equals still rude and disrespectful. There is no minority at work causing this, it is the act itself that is rude.

Furthermore when any issue in American society is overcome, it is usually by some level of in your face confrontation. Civil rights movements, that are famous, occurred because people of that minority group dared to go against social conventions and establish that this hyped up perceived threat, perceived by the majority, is entirely unfounded. And that the minority group (or really a very tiny minority within the minority group) decided they had had enough with the bullying tactics by the majority. So, a few of them took lumps for the larger cause, perhaps a few not even making headlines and getting the crap kicked out of them for daring to go against the biased majority opinion. And now, we've swung the pendulum on many of those causes in the complete opposite direction where the bias of (or against) discrimination is no longer deemed permissible and is seen for what it is, hatred of alleged rudeness when that judgment is entirely on the person making the claim, and not on the person/activity.

Vaping is still fighting the continued battle of anti-smoking zealots, and particularly with vaping, the in your face tactic does have merits. Perhaps 50 years from now, that'll be seen differently than thru this prism of righteousness by the so called anti-rude faction. At that time (which could occur today), the mirror will be held up and the actual rude people will be those who called for bans and who kept crying "rudeness!" without looking in the mirror first.

I just Could Disagree with this More.

The "In Your Face" attitude Doesn't Work. Never has. All it does is Piss People Off.

All it Does is take Bans that went from something Vaper's Don't Like but could live with (Enclosed Spaces Bans) to Bans like what the San Refael City Council Passed.

 

[zoiDman]

That's why I wasn't disbelieving when you said you were in CA.

...

Yeah... It isn't a Big Secrete. I live in Orange County, CA.

And what Happens in Big Cities/Counties like LA, Orange or San Diego are not Always what you see in Smaller Towns/Counties in Northern California.

But just because a Person Doesn't see Something where a Person Lives, Doesn't mean it Isn't Happening in Other Places.

 

[zoiDman]

The Los Angeles city council is getting ready to ban vaping where smoking is not allowed.
It appears the stated reason is that it threatens to re-normalize smoking.

I'm not sure if it was New York, Chicago, or both that used that same reason.

We now live in a world where social engineering is a perfectly acceptable reason to pass a law that makes no scientific sense.
And we have no one to blame but ourselves for letting this happen.

Remember UCI?

Another Great Example of a Few People Screwing Up Something for a Much Larger Group of People.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. True. But I prefer to kill them all with a wide-beam phaser.

But seriously put me in the courteous camp, I'm the Golden Rule type: Don't tread on me and I won't rattle your cage. In my big city I see public confrontations almost every day. People yelling and screaming at each other when a simple Excuse Me or Pardon Me would have saved the day. Call me a wimp, say I give in too easily, say I don't stand up for my rights enough. Yet at the end of the day I pretty much do what I want to do and come home safe and sound to my wife and enjoy myself. Man I lived next to a guy who loved to blame everyone else for all his own shortcomings in life, had 3 heart attacks, just the most god awful sour puss.

 

[MsxShades]

I agree, people can be extremely disrespectful it's ridiculous. Studies have found that vapor still contains carcinogens that second hand smoke from a cigarette would contain. It may not contain as much as a regular cigarette would but it still effects everyone around you who is exposed to your vapor. We are losing our rights very quickly, and we finally found a better alternative to smoking, but there's always someone who has to screw that up for everyone else. Stealth vaping is NOT okay when you're around people, especially children. Get your heads together people.

 

[zoiDman]

I agree, people can be extremely disrespectful it's ridiculous. Studies have found that vapor still contains carcinogens that second hand smoke from a cigarette would contain. ...

The Levels of Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins in 2nd Hand Vapor are there. But they are Down on a Level that is Almost Undetectable.

 

[zoiDman]

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. True. But I prefer to kill them all with a wide-beam phaser.

But seriously put me in the courteous camp, I'm the Golden Rule type: Don't tread on me and I won't rattle your cage. In my big city I see public confrontations almost every day. People yelling and screaming at each other when a simple Excuse Me or Pardon Me would have saved the day. Call me a wimp, say I give in too easily, say I don't stand up for my rights enough. Yet at the end of the day I pretty much do what I want to do and come home safe and sound to my wife and enjoy myself. Man I lived next to a guy who loved to blame everyone else for all his own shortcomings in life, had 3 heart attacks, just the most god awful sour puss.

I hear you Ohms.

Look at what Myk said about Never EVER seeing people Blowing Clouds in Restaurants.

EVERY 10th Person in those Restaurants could be a Vaper. But if No One is Acting Disrespectfully of those around them, and Doesn't have an In Your Face Attitude, no one would every know that were Vaper's at all.

Hard to make a Case for an Hard Core Ban when there is No Perceived Problem. Or Public Out Cry.

 

[DC2]

I agree, people can be extremely disrespectful it's ridiculous. Studies have found that vapor still contains carcinogens that second hand smoke from a cigarette would contain. It may not contain as much as a regular cigarette would but it still effects everyone around you who is exposed to your vapor. We are losing our rights very quickly, and we finally found a better alternative to smoking, but there's always someone who has to screw that up for everyone else. Stealth vaping is NOT okay when you're around people, especially children. Get your heads together people.

Methinks you do not have the proper information on how much of those carcinogens we exhale.
And how absolutely meaningless they are to those around us, let alone to us who are actually inhaling them directly.

 

[zoiDman]

Methinks you do not have the proper information on how much of those carcinogens we exhale.
And how absolutely meaningless they are to those around us, let alone to us who are actually inhaling them directly.

I don't think MsxShades is Alone in Not Knowing about what Levels of Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins are Present in SHV. And I don't think it is He/She's Fault either.

I think we as a Vaping Community have done a Terrible Job of Countering the Study Data that groups like the CDC, FDA, Lung Association, etc. are used Against Us.

It is Not a Lie to say that SHV contains Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins. And it has been Ingrain in Peoples Minds since the First FDA Report came out by Continually stating it.

But what Hasn't be Stated, and what We/OME's/Retailers did a Very Poor Job of Counter-Punching was the Level of these Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins.

 

[Jman8]

The "In Your Face" attitude Doesn't Work. Never has. All it does is Piss People Off.

Worked for all civil rights movements that I'm aware of.

Again, you dodge the issue that for our opposition vaping is rude everywhere. The goal isn't to stamp out vaping in public, it's to stamp out vaping period. The indoor bans are part of a battle. Get that passed, and shaming those engaged in the rude activity of vaping is so much easier.

Again, I point to smoking/smokers as evidence of what I speak of.

You point to nothing to support your take.

 

[DC2]

I don't think MsxShades is Alone in Not Knowing about what Levels of Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins are Present in SHV. And I don't think it is He/She's Fault either.

I think we as a Vaping Community have done a Terrible Job of Countering the Study Data that groups like the CDC, FDA, Lung Association, etc. are used Against Us.

It is Not a Lie to say that SHV contains Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins. And it has been Ingrain in Peoples Minds since the First FDA Report came out by Continually stating it.

But what Hasn't be Stated, and what We/OME's/Retailers did a Very Poor Job of Counter-Punching was the Level of these Carcinogens, Heavy Metals and Toxins.

The problem is not that we haven't been trying.
It's that the mainstream media is ignoring us and our entire argument.

My question is why?
But I think I know the answer to that one.

 

[Uma]

I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that there aren't even 10,000 CASAA members yet.
It's free to join, only takes one minute, and yet here we are...

This thread is worth it's weight in gold.
While Slantzz is lying to the powers that be (WHO, FDA, CITY COUNCILS, SENATORS), that we Vapers are united, organized, spreading lies, Etc, here we are, fighting mad because we don't have the lobbyists, the members, the organizational skills & powers, the finances, ...

All we have are facts and small groups.
The ANTZ, on the other hand, are huge forces of propaganda.
We need some pro bono lawyers more than lobbyists methinks. But both would be nice. I'd rather pay a lawyer than a lobbyist, IMO, if we have to pay.

 

[DC2]

The goal isn't to stamp out vaping in public, it's to stamp out vaping period. The indoor bans are part of a battle. Get that passed, and shaming those engaged in the rude activity of vaping is so much easier.

Again, I point to smoking/smokers as evidence of what I speak of.

This is the part of your post that caused me to "like" what you said.
I don't think everyone realizes that our opponents have a plan that they are executing perfectly.

We will be destroyed, slowly but surely, unless we rise up.
This much has become painfully obvious to me.

How should we rise up?
That seems to be the big question.

By being quiet and acquiescing?
By being militant and fighting?

Welcome to the world of the oppressed.

 

[zoiDman]

...

How should we rise up?
That seems to be the big question.

By being quiet and acquiescing?
By being militant and fighting?

...

Let me Change that so I can Comment on it.

Being Quiet Isn't Going to Work.
And Being Militant is Going to Work Either.

The World Isn't Black and White. Why Must there Only be Two Extremes in e-Cigarette Use? The Answer Lies In between the Two Ends of the Spectrum.

We Also have to Fight for what is Winnable. And not get Bogged down in Fighting for things that are Already Lost.

 

[LDS714]

I agree, people can be extremely disrespectful it's ridiculous. Studies have found that vapor still contains carcinogens that second hand smoke from a cigarette would contain. It may not contain as much as a regular cigarette would but it still effects everyone around you who is exposed to your vapor. We are losing our rights very quickly, and we finally found a better alternative to smoking, but there's always someone who has to screw that up for everyone else. Stealth vaping is NOT okay when you're around people, especially children. Get your heads together people.

Which studies? I challenge your belief.

Do you mean this one?

By reviewing over 9,000 observations about the chemistry of the vapor and the liquid in e-cigarettes, Dr. Burstyn was able to determine that the levels of contaminants e-cigarette users are exposed to are insignificant, far below levels that would pose any health risk. Additionally, there is no health risk to bystanders. Proposals to ban e-cigarettes in places where smoking is banned have been based on concern there is a potential risk to bystanders, but the study shows there is no concern.

Probably not...