Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[LDS714]

I was using mercury as an example to counter your claim that heavy metals don't vaporize at a relatively low temp. Like the temps produced by a vaporizer. Plus, we don't know what heavy metals make up the 5.0PPMs allowed in USP Glycerin. We do know, or should know from a simple google search, that at least some heavy metals are carcinogens. But I'm sure you checked before you dismissed my claim - because you said you did.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_on_Human_Health/file/79e415082be0ce7530.pdf

I would expect levels of mercury in seafood flavored e-liquids, particularly tuna.

Canned Tuna May Contain Excessive Mercury - Scientific American

So yeah, FDA approved = safe. Not.

 

[Myk]

I was using mercury as an example to counter your claim that heavy metals don't vaporize at a relatively low temp. Like the temps produced by a vaporizer. Plus, we don't know what heavy metals make up the 5.0PPMs allowed in USP Glycerin. We do know, or should know from a simple google search, that at least some heavy metals are carcinogens. But I'm sure you checked before you dismissed my claim - because you said you did.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...s_on_Human_Health/file/79e415082be0ce7530.pdf

I never made any such claim. Perhaps you should reread. Because of my experience with cadmium I know it is the fumes so I wouldn't make such a statement.
You did however say you thought vaporizing heavy metal PRODUCES carcinogens.

Pretty sure vaporizing a heavy metal, even in PPMs, produces carcinogens. But, probably less than in the air I'm breathing right now. Could be wrong... just thinking out loud.

Heavy metals don't change from what I know. They either are carcinogens or aren't. Even if they did change an ecig wouldn't produce enough heat. The only carcinogenic heavy metal I know of is cadmium (there's probably more, that's the only one I'm familiar with) and I would hope the people picking the metals avoid that (if I can avoid it in my solder everyone should be able to).

I also said there are probably more than cadmium but that was the only one I was familiar with. I did not search because I didn't see a need.

So before you try to play victim because your valued claim was so rudely dismissed at least make sure you stick to the original story.

As far as your link you might want to get a second opinion unless you happen to be working in a nickle refinery. Maybe we should start stamping our coins with State of California cancer warnings. And if aluminum is a carcinogen the whole world is screwed.

 

[Jay-dub]

I never made any such claim. Perhaps you should reread. Because of my experience with cadmium I know it is the fumes so I wouldn't make such a statement.
You did however say you thought vaporizing heavy metal PRODUCES carcinogens.



I also said there are probably more than cadmium but that was the only one I was familiar with. I did not search because I didn't see a need.

So before you try to play victim because your valued claim was so rudely dismissed at least make sure you stick to the original story.

As far as your link you might want to get a second opinion unless you happen to be working in a nickle refinery. Maybe we should start stamping our coins with State of California cancer warnings. And if aluminum is a carcinogen the whole world is screwed.

Yeah, we're talking in circles. I admit I was responding to you stating that mercury wasn't a carcinogen and had forgotten about your previous post on cadmium. And I'd be glad to adjust my incorrect statement from "produces carcinogens" to "produces a vapor that contains carcinogens". It doesn't hurt for all of us to continually point out that the term "carcinogen" applies to a vast array of products and materials and that our own atmosphere contains more problematic chemicals than vapor. Probably even at higher PPM than is allowed in our Glycerin.

 

[Cumulonimbus Bliss]

It is the visible vapor that is the only issue, as far as I am concerned. No real way around it, though, save for discreet vaping something like a carto on an ego-style PV, which produces little vapor and holding it until there is virtually nothing that comes out.

What if there was a way around it? What would you expect from such a device and how would you explain to people what it's purpose is?

 

[Cumulonimbus Bliss]

Does anyone have an idea of the evaporation rate of nicotine? Just curious, since I've blown my vapes out through a tube covered by a folded paper towel over a period of nearly three months. I gave up after that because I saw no observable change to the paper towel. Except for the evidence that I was exhaling a liquid mist. But the moisture would evaporate like water and leave no trace in a matter of minutes. I would have thought that a little nicotine would have stayed in the paper towel's fibers. Then, it would have darkened. None of which happened. So, it must not be exhaled in significant amounts, evaporates too fast to capture using my rudimentary methods, or I'm not a scientist so don't ask me.

The evaporation isn't so much of an issue when considering methods of dissipating clouds. One must focus on what a vapor cloud is: A bunch of tiny water droplets. Instead of separating the droplets via dissipation, a more effective method is to disturb the surface tension of these droplets, effectively condensing the cloud back into a few slightly larger droplets that merely fall to the ground. An added benefit of this effect is the proof that real vapor is merely water, not ashes like smoke is. I'm getting at something here if you haven't noticed...

 

[LDS714]

The evaporation isn't so much of an issue when considering methods of dissipating clouds. One must focus on what a vapor cloud is: A bunch of tiny water droplets. Instead of separating the droplets via dissipation, a more effective method is to disturb the surface tension of these droplets, effectively condensing the cloud back into a few slightly larger droplets that merely fall to the ground. An added benefit of this effect is the proof that real vapor is merely water, not ashes like smoke is. I'm getting at something here if you haven't noticed...

Gonna make it rain up in here?

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Well if I have to start factoring in Brownian Motion to be able to vape, I'm out.

 

[Myk]

Yeah, we're talking in circles. I admit I was responding to you stating that mercury wasn't a carcinogen and had forgotten about your previous post on cadmium. And I'd be glad to adjust my incorrect statement from "produces carcinogens" to "produces a vapor that contains carcinogens". It doesn't hurt for all of us to continually point out that the term "carcinogen" applies to a vast array of products and materials and that our own atmosphere contains more problematic chemicals than vapor. Probably even at higher PPM than is allowed in our Glycerin.

But you have to be careful with saying things like "produces". Heat can cause harmful changes. The fire of a cigarette takes relatively harmless tobacco and "produces" something more harmful.
As far as we know ecigs only introduce whatever is already in the ingredients into the body. If there's a problem with ecig vapor the problem is in the ingredients not something being produced by the heat. Even if they came out as harmful it's not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, it would be a reason to change the bathwater.

Talking about what's already in the air is what a lot of us have been saying. Take UK's smoking in cars with kids ban which will probably be extended to ecigs if it's not already. It's hard for me to get worked up about even a real cigarette in a car that's belching out fumes that would kill you in a matter of hours and contains a lot more carcinogens.
Banning fossil fuels would make more sense from a health standpoint.

 

[LDS714]

This is turning out to be a good strategy session on communicating the truth about vaping.

All the phrases, terms and such that are being niggled about here will be scrutinized even more by the antis.

Good practice, let's keep our eye on the ball!

 

[DC2]

Well if I have to start factoring in Brownian Motion to be able to vape, I'm out.

I take it that you don't steep your juices?

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

I take it that you don't steep your juices?

Hahaha!

Good one. Does ProVapes make a Brownian Motion Accelerator? Or is that just a fancy name for Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver? lol

 

[Cumulonimbus Bliss]

Well if I have to start factoring in Brownian Motion to be able to vape, I'm out.

Leave the theoretical partical physics to those that are trying to shut us down. That's the only chance they'll have when the facts start coming out. I'm talking about a principal that is quite obvious. In fact, it's a bit unsettling how obvious since it hasn't been presented to the public yet. It would almost appear as if there were bigger forces trying to keep this condensation concept classified. Everyone likes a good conspiracy...

 

[LDS714]

Leave the theoretical partical physics to those that are trying to shut us down. That's the only chance they'll have when the facts start coming out. I'm talking about a principal that is quite obvious. In fact, it's a bit unsettling how obvious since it hasn't been presented to the public yet. It would almost appear as if there were bigger forces trying to keep this condensation concept classified. Everyone likes a good conspiracy...

Please elaborate.

 

[DC2]

Does ProVapes make a Brownian Motion Accelerator?

I don't think so.

But I made one of these and I'm thinking of selling them...

 

[zoiDman]

Leave the theoretical partical physics to those that are trying to shut us down. That's the only chance they'll have when the facts start coming out. I'm talking about a principal that is quite obvious. In fact, it's a bit unsettling how obvious since it hasn't been presented to the public yet. It would almost appear as if there were bigger forces trying to keep this condensation concept classified. Everyone likes a good conspiracy...

Perhaps you can Enlighten us who did Not Finish their Masters Degree in Applied Mathematics?

 

[LDS714]

I don't think so.

But I made one of these and I'm thinking of selling them...

Can't sell that in the EU now. It's vaporizing liquid and holds over 2ml.

 

[zoiDman]

I don't think so.

But I made one of these and I'm thinking of selling them...

That's Cool. And Variable Voltage Also.

What it run on? One Hundred and Twenty Eight 26650 Batteries in Series?

 

[Jay-dub]

But you have to be careful with saying things like "produces". Heat can cause harmful changes. The fire of a cigarette takes relatively harmless tobacco and "produces" something more harmful.

Just wanted to thank you for clarifying the point, instead of clearly pointing.

 

[Jay-dub]

Leave the theoretical partical physics to those that are trying to shut us down. That's the only chance they'll have when the facts start coming out. I'm talking about a principal that is quite obvious. In fact, it's a bit unsettling how obvious since it hasn't been presented to the public yet. It would almost appear as if there were bigger forces trying to keep this condensation concept classified. Everyone likes a good conspiracy...

Doesn't condensation result in concentration? Instead of particulates being spread out in a PPM fashion, you get a singular, small drop instead of particulates. I know that's how they remove heavy metals in waste water management anyway. Skimmed over a few spec pages on that while looking into heavy metals.

 

[zoiDman]

Doesn't condensation result in concentration? Instead of particulates being spread out in a PPM fashion, you get a small drop instead of particulates. I know that's how they remove heavy metals in waste water management anyway. Skimmed over a few spec pages on that while looking into heavy metals.

Hard to Say what Tangent Cumulonimbus Bliss on. But I sure hope He/She comes back and let's us know.

The Suspense is just Killing me.