Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.
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The company I work for banned vaping indoors in company owned buildings, not because some politician or pharma company demanded it but because one vaper who didn't exercise a little restraint walked into a non-smoker customers office and blew a big ol plume of vapor in the guys face. Now I have to go outside to the smelly smoke area (which makes me want to smoke again) to have a vape. Get over yourselves you selfish spoiled children.
Or those people in the 60's who sat at the lunch counter when there were clear rules in place to not allow that sort of thing. Those silly people. When will they ever learn?
Oh yes of course because vaping is such a high priority civil rights issue to the country.
Not as high as gun rights, but you went there, so I went where I went to make the same point.
You see, here's the problem. I live in Kalifornia, unfortunately, and I have been down this road (over, and over, and over) again with various issues some of which actually entail constitutionally guaranteed rights (which vaping is unfortunately not one). Once you have public opinion against you, which vapers pretty much do, its like trying to bail water out of the titanic and the militant "you can't make me do what you want" always lose and actually make the situation worse for those who are just trying to enjoy what little freedom they have left. So what do you propose? A revolution? Sure, i'm game if it involves more than a couple of hundred vapers with their favorite mods, but that's not realistic and I try to live in reality. SO unless you can get a high profile special interest group behind you with a {MODERATED} ton of cash and all the correct political contacts you are just thumbing your nose at the people who eventually going to shut you down all the way because you can't follow some simple rules. Anything else is just protesting in front of wall street, and we know how well that worked out. This is not to say i'm against contacting your representatives, voting, and generally making your opinions known. But, blowing vapor in a doctors office full of sick children, cmon, that's a sure fire way to guarantee you just created some anti-vapers.
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Sorry to Hear what happed at you Company.
I've seen it Many Times. Where One or Two People Screw It Up for us, and it Sucks.
Since you live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia also (I live in Orange County), if you Haven't seen this, you should take a Look at this...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/513980-california-assembly-bill-ban-shipment-e-cigarettes-anyone-california.html
Nice to meet you Zoid! Any hope for parole? I hope to be a cali escapee by fall of next year! Yea, i've sent my letters about this bill and tried to rally all the vapers I know. Depressing stuff but luckily I still have family in southern Nevada that I go visit often.
I have not run into general populations that are against "vaping". I've asked non-smoking friends and associates what they think and the response has been largely, "huh?" or a shrug (haven't thought about it much).
The only ones I've gotten an opinion from are from a few parents because some schools are sending home crazy scare pieces - they are largely refferring to hookah pens, which I don't know much about. I did go to a few of the sites mentioned and there's no comment of buying under 18, brightly colored, look like a type of ink pen and run about $10 (they don't look like they last long). Ok, I'd be spooked as a parent about those. But then I wouldn't be giving my 13 or 15 year old kid freedom to use my credit, debit or any card online either.
I've got a question, if your walking into a customer's office, would you walk in eating a sandwich, in sweaty gym clothes or doing anything that distracts from having a professional attitude and focus on your customer? I don't see this about rude "vapers". I see this about rude people period. I know people who are sensitive to scents and I try not to wear perfume around them because of that. I would not openly sneeze or cough in a doctor's office without covering it or wearing a face mask either. It's called courtesy and maybe it should be pointed out to some that think it's about vaping because it's not.
ANTZ ignores valid studies and reviews to support their own debunked and bias ones. There is nothing about this debate over ecigs that's logical, scientific, in the interest of public health or about "us" as vapers. We can't take their reactions personally or they will shame us into submission (again). It is only about money and market control and they want it.
The only ones I've gotten an opinion from are from a few parents because some schools are sending home crazy scare pieces - they are largely refferring to hookah pens, which I don't know much about. I did go to a few of the sites mentioned and there's no comment of buying under 18, brightly colored, look like a type of ink pen and run about $10 (they don't look like they last long). Ok, I'd be spooked as a parent about those. But then I wouldn't be giving my 13 or 15 year old kid freedom to use my credit, debit or any card online either.
I've got a question, if your walking into a customer's office, would you walk in eating a sandwich, in sweaty gym clothes or doing anything that distracts from having a professional attitude and focus on your customer? I don't see this about rude "vapers". I see this about rude people period. I know people who are sensitive to scents and I try not to wear perfume around them because of that. I would not openly sneeze or cough in a doctor's office without covering it or wearing a face mask either. It's called courtesy and maybe it should be pointed out to some that think it's about vaping because it's not.
ANTZ ignores valid studies and reviews to support their own debunked and bias ones. There is nothing about this debate over ecigs that's logical, scientific, in the interest of public health or about "us" as vapers. We can't take their reactions personally or they will shame us into submission (again). It is only about money and market control and they want it.
Good to meet you Also.
I've got a Piece of Property in Southern Oregon that I would like to Retire on. But I'm still a few years away.
So for the time being, I'm Stuck in Kalifornia.
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There will probably come a day for that but IMO it's not here yet. We haven't had our Rosa Parks.
And Black people can't turn off their color for an hour to sit at a lunch counter.
My personal opinion is that we may have to go the other direction before getting confrontational, kinda like DC was saying: we need a big-enough hit to rally over.
If/when they make it impossible to stay off combustibles without hoarding and black market, we should start SMOKING very very rudely, leaving butts all over where we never did before, and start sending letters to the editor saying "I was respectful with my smoking, then I was respectful with my vaping AND saving my life, but that's all over now. You don't respect my right to avoid the consequences of stinkys so I no longer recognize YOUR right to avoid them."
And I mean leaving lit cigarettes on saucers in restaurants, Dr. offices, on the doorstep to cancer treatment centers, all kinds of things.
I hope the EU dodges the no-flavors, no-refillables, no-24-mg barrage of bullets but if not, they'd be right to do what I just said. I think the FDA may have already been reined in a little but if they find a workaround, then here too.
I hope we don't get there but if we do, I'll sure do it.
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I understand what you are saying but they don't ban sandwiches in the building because someone rudely ate one in front of a customer. All the customer has to say about vaping is I don't want to be exposed to that and its a done deal, because they see it as a form of smoking. And it doesn't matter what studies you throw at them because they aren't interested and aren't going to read them. In today's self absorbed society most aren't going to waste their time trying to understand why you do what you do, they only care about their own likes and dislikes and if vaping isn't one of them "oh well, get it away from me" is possibly the reaction your going to get. If my company bans vaping in the building because the customer complained of someone vaping then it is 100% about vaping to that customer and to my company, I can and have shown my management some studies that show vaping is not harmful to others but their attitude is now "the customer doesn't like it so you can't do it" and it's not going to change because they dont vape and don't particularly care if I have to go outside to do it. I contend that most people who answer "huh? or shrug when asked about vaping in public would vote no when presented with a ballot with a yes/no choice about public vaping because of the misinformation fed to them by the media and government. I believe the chance of this greatly increases if that person has had a run in with one "rude" vaper because they lose nothing by voting no and gain nothing by voting yes.
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I get the bit about not pushing your vaping onto people in public, thats not what I'm even thinking about. But I am Pizzed that a vaper would call another out if the one was trying to be stealthy. Drs office, kids or no. As a vaper, do you NOT KNOW the our exhales are harmless? Stop thinking of vaping in the same thought as smoking. It's not. We do no harm. We should at the very least stand together, there are enough trying to ruin it.
Bosses could use some accountability training. How to Create a Culture of Accountability in Your Home
And I'll be right there with you if it comes to that.
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I totally disagree with you ,what you did was worse
Its a good thing it wasn't me you confronted.
Question, If that had been a 6ft 5, 300lb man , would you have done the same thing ???
This I agree with
There is no second-hand vapor and infants will never, ever, ever remember that experience. She was harming no one and attempted to be stealthy about it. Now, getting caught is not stealthy "enough", but to have another vaper call her out...
Rudeness or not, there is no need to get upset. That woman never knew you, never met you, never interacted with you in your entire life up until that point. And yet you feel the right to interject yourself into her life? She "did something" to "piss you off", and now you have the right to enter her world and tell her what she's doing wrong?
Dude, face it, you're you, everyone else is everyone else, and not everyone's going to be or agree exactly like you. This applies to more than just vaping:
DEAL WITH IT.
But they could've sat in the colored only sections, specifically designated for them, and still have been served. They chose a different path. It wasn't initially popular nor well received. In fact, it lead to very violent battles. Which, on hindsight, was seemingly necessary to make the point that says, "me being here in this location, in this way, at this time is not causing undue harm to anyone. It may be insulting your sensitivities, but right about now, they need to be insulted to make the larger point."
Those hits are coming in droves now. While I still think flavors is the biggest issue of them all, that is the sort of thing that won't benefit from any public action to overcome it, and is mostly to strictly an intellectual fight. The usage bans are the type of thing to rally around. People aren't going to show up in droves at city hall to fight an online sales ban. Nor to fight a restriction on nicotine limit. Nor even on device types that are allowed. But usage bans are the thing to fight publicly.
If I go look at Legislative News, there are umpteen states invoking usage restrictions or bans. That's one way to divide the vaping community as it is tough enough dealing with own state, much less consider a major fight in all states simultaneously. Methinks this was a coordinated attack by our opposition, while also plausibly just two or three states going in that direction and then 5 to 20 other states seeing the writing on the wall, and following suit.
Opposition has already captured three biggest cities in America. If vapers are waiting for a larger rallying cry than this, then they will essentially be fighting a battle that is either done, or nearly done. I wonder if it would be effective if I go fight the war in Iraq now, here in 2014?
I like the cut of your jib, but I don't see this working. I'm not sure what I see working at this point, but do still think vape everywhere is best position for us, the vaping community, to rally behind. It gives us a point that is most reasonable position to start from given where our opposition is coming from and what they are visibly (thus far) going for. Which is vape nowhere, ever. Because it is rude and dangerous.
I was thinking in last 24 hours of a new strategy that would benefit from some coordination, but wouldn't really need that. I'm thinking we vapers go into places that we know do not allow vaping. And after a little while of being in there (and not vaping once) we go up to manager (or ask for one) and turn ourselves in. Confess to vaping. Hey, I've been in here for (x amount of time) and I was vaping pretty heavily, but realized you may be the type of place that doesn't allow this. I just wanted to let you know that I did and that I realized you probably have a policy on this. I'm curious what issues there are with my having heavily vaped in your establishment, could you explain that to me?
Who knows how that conversation goes, but point is that they wouldn't know either way unless a) you were caught in the act or b) you fessed up. Either way, you are going to wonder what the big deal is. So, I say don't do it, fess up (in a deceptive way) and find out what the big deal is if I did heavily vape in your establishment? Please explain that to me, and be clear as it seems that no one noticed me doing this and I did it heavily. I'd like to know what the problem is that you have with vaping in your establishment?
Or alternative, that is entirely viable from my perspective, is to ignore the policy, rule or law because you can vape in a place and they will never know, unless you choose to do it where you will be seen. I can think of many many places where that would not happen. Where you can openly vape, indoors, and not be seen by anyone. That can't be good for opposition for me to put that out there, but I stand by it and believe it will ALWAYS be the case. And now that they are releasing eCigs that don't produce vapor, that will just make it around 18 times easier to openly vape and never ever be caught.
Kinda hard to blow big ol' harmless clouds of vapor in people's faces if there is no visible vapor.
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