Why vaping is a niche thing

[benriz]

I was reading a post about the Vortex from Gotvapes. Several people report it leaks, My first cart does not leak and works pretty close to as advertised. I bought and SSR from GoodProphets and I spent hours on that damn thing and could not get it to vape, even for one minute and yet, you will find many, many post from many other people who absolutely love the SSR and report it is trouble free. I have no doubt that their SSR’s work great for them. That’s the biggest problem with vaping in general and the reason vaporizers are a niche thing.

For the most part very few products work well out of the box (everything is listed as “disposable” so the vendors can say, “If it worked for 10 seconds, well that’s the life span of the product”. For me, one of the fun things about vaping is there are always new products every week. I look at it like my motorcycle. It’s a stupid hobby, but I still love it. I buy a lot and rationalize this as a treat for myself for not smoking. But the bottom line is the industry is dominated by small mom and pop players, cheap products that don’t really offer much that is improved and expensive products that don’t work all that well either. In our hobby a good vendor is defined as one who sticks the product in the mail quickly. People should assume that everything has not warrenty because with a few exceptions they don’t. I think vaping is maturing. I quit vaping and started smoking or about 6 months and when I returned to vaping the overall quality of products was universally better. Do I still get angry with products that don’t work and vendors who say “you’re not using it right, refer to our online suggestions and my all-time favorite: “Here is how to tweak it so it will work”? YES I DO. But if half the stuff sold worked as advertised we would not all be running to the forum every day to find out what’s up and trying new products every week or would we????

 

[Shady195]

Well first off were you trying to use a vortex on the SSR? IIRC they are only meant to work with the CE2's

 

[benriz]

of course not I was using the ssr with ce2, but it would not draw at all. The vendor kept referring to his on line instructions. I did not want to sell a product that did nto work so I donated mine to Tim. when he gets it he is going to try to make it work and do a video review. my point is not many products work out of the box for everyone. As i pointed out many many people love the SSR and have no problmes I am sure many, like me will have good experience with Vortex but none none none of this stuff works well for everyone right out of the box no fiddliling and until it does this vaping thing will not take off

 

[BuzzKill]

Right now it is like the BETAMAX vs. VCR wars the 510 is fairly new to the market , the 901 -801 were the starters ( these have different thread sizes ) IMO the 510 is the worst of them all ( threads are too small and internal to the battery )

It will sort out after a while but companies are fighting for market share so ???

 

[Grimloki]

The fiddling and hassles are a small price to pay for the benefits. It would be a niche if there wasn't a strong need for a safer alternative to smoking.. but I think the 80% quit rate for smokers trying e-cigs means that it could potentially convert 30million people to e-cigs in the US alone.

If its a niche, its a really big niche. We are just the early adopters.

 

[benriz]

I agree but it for how many of the 30 million are vaping now?

 

[SABOTEUR]

Hard to consider myself an "early adapter", but Grimloki is right...that's exactly what we are.

Vaping is an acquired taste, which places us in a niche. Though I willingly share my 2 year experience, my enthusiasm is met with a fair bit of scepticism. Their reaction makes it fairly obvious that the majority of smokers today will not convert to vaping. This is because vaping is perceived as more of an inconvenience than cigarette smoking.

E-cigs won't become universally popular until they standardize and simplify it to the point where anyone can jump in their car, dash to their favorite store and purchase a reliable product that satisfies as much as, or more than a cigarette.

 

[benriz]

amen brother

 

[TNT]

You're absolutely right... e-cigs are a niche product. We're getting there... there are some extremely fine products available today (the REO Grand, the madvapes Roughstack, and some others spring to mind).

But... take atomizers... as someone here put it, "the life of an atomizer is anywhere between six minutes and six months." That's not good enough for the average person... it's barely good enough for me and right now, I'll pay almost anything to quit cigarettes. And when I had five from a pack of five fail almost immediately, the bold "warranty" turned out to be less than useless... I wasn't using them according to extremely vague provisions in the fine print.

 

[Valsacar]

Only time I've had problems were almost always my fault, except the Ego-T... that just sucked. Even when my dead atties were 100% my fault (overused them big time, 20+ minutes non-stop chain vaping) my warranty covered it and I was handed brand new ones.

When my Ego USB battery died, A few weeks before the warranty ran out Janty told me they would send me a replacement... that never got here. A friend of mine that works for a Janty kiosk here (Korean company with a license to sell Janty products, and only Janty products) gave me a new one (out of his pocket).

There's not too much that can be done about the life-span of things like atties, but a good warranty and good customer service should make up for it. Batteries and other components should have a much better life span (and in general they do).

My MAP tanks have been working quite well, besides me breaking one of them playing with it. I've switched out one CE2 so far, after running close to 60ml through it (too me about a month, heh). A dry burn clean every tank refill (5ml) seems to keep them going for quite a while, I didn't even really need to replace it as it was still working fine (with a small flavor change) but just wanted to give it a try. My other (still non-broken tank) I dry burn every 2-3 refills (the first one is a really dark juice, which seems to make a difference in how fast it gets a build-up on the coil).

 

[wdave]

None of that is true. Most people have their own pre-conceived ideas when they start vaping and don't really listen to what people say in the forum. Instead they insist on finding everything out themselves and end up spending a lot of money and becoming very frustrated.

Based on my experience, this is the ONLY e-cig setup I would recommend to my friends, because I can guarantee it will work right for them the first time. AND more importantly, they would be buying great quality for the least amount of money up front.

- 1ea Joye 510 kit with one standard battery and USB charger.
- 1ea Joye 510 extended life battery
- Add additional 510 atties so there are 3 total.
- 1ea 5-piece box of blank 510 carts.
- 2ea 10ml bottles of 18mg Dekang juice.
- 2ea 10ml bottles of 24mg Dekang juice.

HTH,
Dave

 

[SABOTEUR]

None of that is true. Most people have their own pre-conceived ideas when they start vaping and don't really listen to what people say in the forum. Instead they insist on finding everything out themselves and end up spending a lot of money and becoming very frustrated.

Based on my experience, this is the ONLY e-cig setup I would recommend to my friends, because I can guarantee it will work right for them the first time. AND more importantly, they would be buying great quality for the least amount of money up front.

- El-cheapo Joye 510 kit with one standard battery and USB charger.
- 1ea Joye 510 extended life battery
- Add additional 510 atties so there are 3 total.
- 1ea 5-piece box of blank 510 carts.
HTH,
Dave

The point is, it's still not as simple and easy as buying a pack of cigarettes. Most people don't want to be inconvenienced and while the e-cig setup you described may be perfect for you, I'll guarantee it's most certainly looked upon as a major hassle to most people who "just want a cigarette". They're not even going to get to the point of forming an opinion about vaping...other than they don't want to be bothered.

 

[wdave]

The point is, it's still not as simple and easy as buying a pack of cigarettes. Most people don't want to be inconvenienced and while the e-cig setup you described may be perfect for you, I'll guarantee it's most certainly looked upon as a major hassle to most people who "just want a cigarette". They're not even going to get to the point of forming an opinion about vaping...other than they don't want to be bothered.

I would say most people at this forum have found a new hobby and haven't yet taken ecigs seriously as a simple substitute for coping with their nicotine addiction. If they really had a simple substitute in mind, there would be more discussion about the reliability of ecig parts, which in general is total crap.

You can't get a decent vape from a little bitty ecig. Anyone looking for convenience will not want a huge vapor machine. And simple is better. I like cartos but filling them takes some getting used to and they might frustrate a beginner. Cartos can also be juice hogs, requiring the beginner to immediately start forking out lots of money for juice.

And speaking of juice, the beginner has yet to realize that the money spent in juice will practically triple the cost of hardware. A beginner should start with cheap juices like Dekang. It's just as likely to find likeable Dekang juice as in any other brand.

The 3-piece 510 is a reliable, simple design that is big enough to provide a decent vape. Yet small and light enough to be convenient. It has been a god-send to most of us who started with other types of ecgs

Any person who isn't looking for a hobby should FOR SURE buy what I recommended.

HTH,
Dave

 

[dokebilee]

Well we are in the introductory stage and will likely be in this phase for a few more years before we get into the growth stage, where we'll most likely see more reliable models and more competition. I'm optimistic to say that we will see more consistency amongst E-Cig parts at the rate at which we're going. And reliability is not up to par with what certain consumers wish for but since this market is pretty new and there are bound to be some inconsistency among models, it is expected.

Also I forgot to add, albeit customer service is great amongst most suppliers/producers, I believe as consumers we need to start pushing for more consistency because customer service can only go so far.

 

[Vapenstein]

Vaping is a niche thing for the same reason that pipe smoking is a niche thing. There is a learning curve involved. You have to make a certain commitment to vaping to do it, and most people want easy, instant gratification.

 

[NicLiq]

I'm almost 3 weeks in, and switched to vaping on day 1. I have no desire to smoke anymore, which is great, but I am spending nearly my entire day trying to achieve a consistent vape.

This is not a good situation for someone who just quit smoking.

Add to that the obsessing over equipment - will my battery last while I'm gone?, do I have enough juice?, I need a back-up for my back-up?, where's that 3rd battery?, etc.

I can hand my PV to a smoking friend to try, and they love it, but completely lose interest when I give the briefest version of what's involved. Haven't told anyone I've spent $650 already (for 2 people); granted we each have a 2 spare kits (Riva 510), 50 cartos, and enough juice to last a few months (most of which I don't like, but my husband will vape anything).

Vaping is a HUGE commitment. I've glad I did it, but it seems like it won't catch on with the masses until there's a perfect PCC and pre-filled one-use cartos in fantastic flavors at great prices.

 

[Credo]

None of that is true. Most people have their own pre-conceived ideas when they start vaping and don't really listen to what people say in the forum. Instead they insist on finding everything out themselves and end up spending a lot of money and becoming very frustrated.

Based on my experience, this is the ONLY e-cig setup I would recommend to my friends, because I can guarantee it will work right for them the first time. AND more importantly, they would be buying great quality for the least amount of money up front.

- 1ea Joye 510 kit with one standard battery and USB charger.
- 1ea Joye 510 extended life battery
- Add additional 510 atties so there are 3 total.
- 1ea 5-piece box of blank 510 carts.
- 2ea 10ml bottles of 18mg Dekang juice.
- 2ea 10ml bottles of 24mg Dekang juice.

HTH,
Dave

My first 510 kit like this was very frustrating. I hated having to pack carts and mess with fluvol just to waste most of the juice I dumped into the thing anyway. I didn't look at e-cigs for a long time after that first 510 experience.

It took a 2 piece carto based kit to prove to me vaping could get the job done. It wasn't until after weeks of using a KR808D-1 pre-fill system that I learned to appreciate the variety of juices out there and how differently atomizers can bring them to life.

With that in mind, I think PV kits that are directed to the 'first time PV buyer' should always have some prefilled cartomizers in them (yes, they can have atties/carts/drip-tips/juice as well), so they can have a decent experience right out of the box...and decide if packing carts or dripping is worth it for them in the future.

This is just based on my own experience..as I've not seen research and data from out in the real world...so...it is...simply an opinion.

 

[dokebilee]

My first 510 kit like this was very frustrating. I hated having to pack carts and mess with fluvol just to waste most of the juice I dumped into the thing anyway. I didn't look at e-cigs for a long time after that first 510 experience.

It took a 2 piece carto based kit to prove to me vaping could get the job done. It wasn't until after weeks of using a KR808D-1 pre-fill system that I learned to appreciate the variety of juices out there and how differently atomizers can bring them to life.

With that in mind, I think PV kits that are directed to the 'first time PV buyer' should always have some prefilled cartomizers in them (yes, they can have atties/carts/drip-tips/juice as well), so they can have a decent experience right out of the box...and decide if packing carts or dripping is worth it for them in the future.

This is just based on my own experience..as I've not seen research and data from out in the real world...so...it is...simply an opinion.

What you say is true and it relates to the most important aspect of not only this community but also to this "niche," which is that product might vary a whole lot but we must not forget that "personal preference" is also a major factor in this game. What might work for one person may not work for the other because they might draw/pull differently, clean differently, use a different juice, and so many other variables.

 

[zotzer]

I can hand my PV to a smoking friend to try, and they love it, but completely lose interest when I give the briefest version of what's involved. .

I've got to say...screwing a pre-filled Bloog carto on a Bloog MaxxFusion is pretty darned easy. One *can* make it more complicated if they want to, or save money by refilling cartos, but they don't have to.

Yep, some find it expensive. So be it. An easy, satisfying, cigarette replacement does exist. Those who will say it's just another generic 808 set-up have most likely not tried one.

 

[caffeinated]

Vaping is a niche thing for the same reason that pipe smoking is a niche thing. There is a learning curve involved. You have to make a certain commitment to vaping to do it, and most people want easy, instant gratification.

Perfect analogy.