Why Vaping won't ever convert the masses (of smokers)

[daviedog]

Oh yes! This!

I got the man I was living with the take up vaping as a means to quit smoking, and found that I had to do everything for him! He would not maintain his vape, I had to do that for him, I had to provide the juice I made because he could not be bothered to go buy any, and in the end he would not even bother to charge his batteries and just went back to smoking on the sly, hiding his cigs in his car where I found them when he asked me to get something out of it.

He wasn't willing to do anything about vaping for himself, and now he's abandoned it because I'm not there to do it all for him anymore. He was like this about too many things, which is why we are not together anymore.

He wanted it all done for him so he didn't have to bother with it, and the OP is right about one thing, those kinds of people will never be converted. They are too lazy and STUPID to save their own lives or protect their own health.

He doesn't know how lucky he was.
You are a wellspring of vape expertice..

 

[Munk]

Oops...............you just fell off the Devils advocate stand

Don't just stand there help me back up!

 

[TheMike21]

I guess in the end, at least the tittle of the thread is true, the masses will not turn over to vaping because they are lazy, scared or unwilling, and you know what, that's ok. I will continue to convert those I can, and hope the US Government and FDA finds a new shiny thing to mess with.

 

[WillyZee]

vaping will one day eradicate smoking ... we're still early in the vaping era

 

[Munk]

vaping will one day eradicate smoking ... we're still early in the vaping era

I certainly hope so, genuinely.

 

[DC2]

I acknowledge most of what the original poster said.
Not all, but most.


As for me, I use an Ego Twist with a disposable 510 atomizer for dripping.
I have zero problems, and pretty much zero maintenance.

I vape just as easily as I smoked.
And my "clouds" are still far bigger than any cigarette.

 

[skoony]

All I'm doing is highlighting the reality that we live in. No amount of quoting or sarcasm will change the fact that the most people don't want to have to "work" in order to vape, nor do they want to assume the risk of disfigurement if they accidentally choose the wrong equipment, or build a coil wrong, or miscalculate something, or run a battery too low, or if a lead screw loosens and causes a short, etc.

So I ask again, is it that you think I'm wrong about most people not wanting to deal with those things, or do you just not like it?

IMHO some people may be to lazy as you say however, I do not think the types of individuals
that are having these catastrophic accidents are necessarily these types of folks. Most are
young males with a couple of exceptions. They are not walking into vape stores in search
of guidance or counseling. They want what their buds use or more likely something similar
but,with a little more punch for the clouds bro. These types will not tolerate being preached
to about safety or anything else because,you know,they've got it covered. Anything one
might tell them about batteries and safety would go in one ear and out the other.
Ya sure I got it,yada,yada,yada.
Have you noticed the trend in almost all these recent incidents? What strikes me is
the eerily similar quotes, " No one ever told me these could blow up or,there were no
warnings". (paraphrased) These statements are becoming redundant to the point that
I believe that some of these incidents may be staged and or their reading a script
from a lawyer. How long have we been hearing, "those things will blow up in your face."
All these people unfortunate has their accidents have been can not be all living in a vacuum.
It's getting to the point that by the time the media releases these stories it's days after the fact
and the "victim" is already lawyered up. That in it self makes me wonder what's going on
that we are not privy too.

Regards
Mike

 

[Lessifer]

I might be paranoid, or somewhat overly cautious but, I did a lot of research long before I ever tried an ecig. The first thing I wanted to learn was, how do you mix electricity and liquid and not get electrocuted. I don't have much electrical experience. Once I figured that out, I started researching specific models to see which would suit me best, and how to use it properly. Later I was intrigued by direct to battery connection mods because my first thought was, how does that not short? So I looked into it, learned how to use one safely.


Will that be too much for some people to bother with? Probably. Someone will cater to those people though.

As for vaping just being too complicated, it might be, for some. For millions so far, it hasn't been.

 

[crxess]

As for me, I use an Ego Twist with a disposable 510 atomizer for dripping.
I have zero problems, and pretty much zero maintenance.

I vape just as easily as I smoked.
And my "clouds" are still far bigger than any cigarette.

Could not agree more. I still, from time to time, enjoy the simplicity of my EGO Twist and a Boge Carto. Just add a few drops as needed and enjoy a simple vape.
Charge the battery when needed, replace the carto as it wears out. easy peasy.

 

[Vaslovik]

IMHO some people may be to lazy as you say however, I do not think the types of individuals
that are having these catastrophic accidents are necessarily these types of folks.

Yeah, they are.

 

[Just Want To Quit]

Again, this is exactly why I have given up on my Ignorant Uncle. Now granted he has a whole myriad of problems including prescription pain addictions, but this is a man that can't figure out how to retrieve text messages from a flip phone!

As far as I'm concerned if they are that far gone, there is no helping them and I for one have given up with his self defeating ignorance.

 

[skoony]

Yeah, they are.

No they are not. They know what they want and get it. They have already made up
in their minds what vaping is about and how to do it. "Just take my money and I'm
out of here."
Regards
Mike

 

[crxess]

Again, this is exactly why I have given up on my Ignorant Uncle. Now granted he has a whole myriad of problems including prescription pain addictions, but this is a man that can't figure out how to retrieve text messages from a flip phone!

As far as I'm concerned if they are that far gone, there is no helping them and I for one have given up with his self defeating ignorance.

Watch it sonny or I'll bop you with my cane!

j/k

Seriously though - I have converted dozens - Young and old. Some smart.......some not so much. It is about wanting to change more than anything else.
Technology has little to do with it. Availability is so broad spectrum there is something for anyone Wanting to change.

 

[DC2]

It's not that these people are all dumb, though some might very well be, they just don't know what they don't know.

There are a lot of people here that don't understand this.
I've spent many years trying to figure out why.

Some people think that the government needs to step in to ensure that there are ample warnings every to let people know that they don't know something. Some people think that the government involvement will do more harm than good.

I think it's on the vendors.
The legal system most likely will agree.

Once enough vendors lose everything they have...
The rest of them will wise up...

I'm already seeing FAR more warnings now then just a year or two ago.

 

[Just Want To Quit]

Watch it sonny or I'll bop you with my cane!

j/k

Seriously though - I have converted dozens - Young and old. Some smart.......some not so much. It is about wanting to change more than anything else.
Technology has little to do with it. Availability is so broad spectrum there is something for anyone Wanting to change.

42 here but that's ok! I still try to be somewhat hip! I wish someone could convince him though, I really do. Like you said, the main issue for some is Wanting to change and that has to come from within.

 

[crxess]

42 here but that's ok! I still try to be somewhat hip! I wish someone could convince him though, I really do. Like you said, the main issue for some is Wanting to change and that has to come from within.

Just try and be there when he is ready

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Here's the thing.

You'll flame me. You'll say TL;DR...

But there's a number of points I need to get off my chest...

I love vaping, by the way. I still have the occasional analog (crazy term but still). I've recently got into sub-ohm vaping because:

1. My ....ty ego batts and clearomisers were just, well, crap.
2. I 'accidentally' bought a Kanger Subox Mini

So as you see, I never planned for subohm, I just got a box mod as basically a better vaping device, as someone who might upgrade from a Ford Focus to a BMW 3 series.

Then problems started occurring, which made me realize that for all the bad longevity of the ego, they were, at least, maintenance-free. Now I was trying to fix leaks, taking pieces apart, re-wicking coils. I needed to set aside a mini workshop in my home just for the maintenance. To the forums, I thought. Surely no-one else has to put in this much effort just to vape, right?

Wrong. You all do, but more surprisingly, you all seem to love it. Rather like if you drive a car, as most of us do, but have little technical knowledge about it, and how we occasionally venture to a car forum. You'll often hear people saying "oh it's the rear axle manifold, but it's easy to do yourself. You just blah, blah, blah". Fine if you have the time, an empty garage, etc, etc. Fine if you love fixing up cars, right.

But with smoking, I never 'loved' smoking, not the concept at least. I just had to smoke. I didn't go around with paraphanlia dedicated to smoking, prosletyzing ways of keeping tobacco fresher or going to smoking conventions. I just smoked. Now of course 'some' smokers are like this, but the majority aren't.

Vaping, sadly, is a steep learning curve for the non-initiated, and whereas I expect most of you to disagree with me, I feel there is a silent majority who may stumble across boards like this, read diagrams of how to convert pi's theorum of fibonacci numbers so you get the right balance between 'balancing your ohms' and causing the device to blow a hole in your face (more on that in a bit), that I bet most people who have lives, but who happen to smoke in them, just think, "erm... okay. I think I'll stick with smoking then".

When I tell friends that I've managed to give up, but talk about RBAs and introducing liquid into Japanese Cotton through a dropper, they glaze over and say "wow, you must really love vaping then". Thing is I don't. I wanted something to replace regular cigarettes, not a 24/7 craft hobby.

My fear is, even though most of you will vehemently defend your love of tinkering, eternally pursuing that perfect 'hit', I am right in saying that a lot of people will just find it too much effort, that even a working piece of kit will fail after a few weeks unless you learn about maintenance, cleaning and a lot of stuff I could do without.

Then there's the whole safety thing...

I preached for months to friends (and even strangers) that were smokers and non-smokers alike, telling them there was this new thing that allowed you to feel like you were smoking but was PERFECTLY SAFE. There were a lot of nay-sayers, let me tell you, but I won through for the most part in that I argued that however bad these eliquids could be, could they really be worse than the contents of a real cigarette (or analog, w/e)?

Unfortunately it was never the liquid we should have feared. It was the hardware.

The fundamental problem with all e-cigarettes, the ones that 'do the job' correctly, the flaw that will always be the thorn in it's size.

...is China.

You may call me racist, I have nothing against the Chinese. But let's put the cards on the table. They aren't known globally for their standards. You read stories every day about people dying over there, or being horrifically injured by machinery that has failed or gone awry due to their poor (or non-existant) safety standards.

All the box mods, it appears, without exception (please someone tell me I'm wrong. PLEASE!) are made in China.

So then I was on another forum, or maybe it was this one, I don't know, and someone posted a list of e-cigarette accidents...

Now bear in mind this isn't like "singed an eyebrow" type ..... This is like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling through events and then realizing you are still in April 2016, casually looking at the scroll bar on the right, not being able to see it, then seeing a pixel-wide line, still close to the top of the screen.

But not all these incidents are bad, right? For this list to be so long. Right?

Kinda. It reads sorta like.

1. 3rd degree burns on leg, scarred for life
2. 3rd degree burns on arm, scarred for life
3. Entire front teeth blown out, scarred for life.

Ah but that's not too bad right

4. Child loses eye while staff DEMONSTRATE an ecig to him at a mall.

HE'S NOT EVEN BOUGHT THE ....ING THING YET!

Aha, but before you rebut, I already know what you're going to say. It will echo the comments that usually follow news stories like this.

"Ah yeah but I bet he was using a calibrated mechanical with a dripper with a non-compatible 510 without calculating his ohm resistance using pythagoras' equation of Lancelot's Diversion and failed to think about the solar flare activity that day. ....ing noob."

Yeah he probably was. ....ing noob is right. In fact is there another hobby that people can just wander into, with so many self-proclaimed experts, that can be so cruel to the uninitiated? Failing DIY base-jumping, that is?

The point I'm trying to make is if vaping now is so fraught with potential danger, and it's necessary to have a certain amount (oh, who are we kidding, quite a reasonable amount) of knowledge about the subject, what not to do, etc, then how can it hope to attract smokers that weren't tobacco-fetishists, you know, the normal, everyday people who just happened to smoke.

I mean I used to enjoy smoking most when I was drunk. Now I can't dare vape if I'm drunk. What if I need to change a coil mid-way? Well not too much, as I have that 'reasonable' degree of knowledge. But what about first-timers? Maybe those bomb disposal outfits that armies have should come with?

But the worst thing has to be the elitism I've found amongst the most hard-core vapers on forums. They will offer no sympathy to the uninitiated, and resent people who just want to get on with things without any effort (you know, like regular smoking) and try to either tell them they should invest more of their time to achieve what used to be so simple, and then shunning said questioner if they point out that they don't have the time, the willpower, etc.

Oh yeah, when I bought my Subox, the site in question said on the order page "this doesn't come with a battery... it needs THIS battery... would you like to buy THIS battery from us as well as the boxmod?"

I said "sure, why not". It came. I charged it. I used it. Then there was a product recall about two weeks later. "Buy this one from us" they now said. "okay, I said".

They sent me an E Fest 18650. You know, the kind that are now generally known as being slightly more stable than carrying around a pack of C4 in a bag full of hammers...

So yeah, had to become an expert in batteries now too. Just so I could scour forums, spend hours on search engines trying to find which battery wouldn't take a limb from me, or knock a six inch hole into my neighbor's house. No really. I'm loving this new hobby.

In fact I'm looking forward to the next part. Maybe my tanks are leaking because they're plastic? .... it, lemme learn glass blowing and I'll make my own Pyrex ones. Ultimately there'll be no time for anything but this, I may as well quit my job.

Or, as new initiates will find, simply go back to smoking...

Nahhh.... all that we need is the FDA to standardize the base, a Surgeon General to admit vaping is much better than cigarettes, and doctors to prescribe vaping as they do in the UK.

I am able to recoil, rewick, whatever when I've had more than 2 - 20oz Lagunitas Hop Stoopid beers, and they hit like a Mack truck. No issues here.

 

[Lessifer]

There are a lot of people here that don't understand this.
I've spent many years trying to figure out why.


I think it's on the vendors.
The legal system most likely will agree.

Once enough vendors lose everything they have...
The rest of them will wise up...

I'm already seeing FAR more warnings now then just a year or two ago.

I definitely think warnings and literature included with devices will become more common, as you noted, it's already begun. I don't have any kind of faith that they will lower the rate of incidents, but they should have a definite effect on the number of lawsuits, and possibly the number of news reports.

 

[crxess]

I definitely think warnings and literature included with devices will become more common, as you noted, it's already begun. I don't have any kind of faith that they will lower the rate of incidents, but they should have a definite effect on the number of lawsuits, and possibly the number of news reports.

And manufacturers are already improving on safety warnings for a multitude of products.............well in advance of any Forced action by the FDA.

 

[Vaslovik]

No they are not. They know what they want and get it. They have already made up
in their minds what vaping is about and how to do it. "Just take my money and I'm
out of here."
Regards
Mike

And they are too lazy to bother with learning battery safety...