Arclight: Come on down and join behind the cheddar curtian. There already is a WI vapors club.
Wisconsin
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Been following these forums for the last few weeks as I went smoke free and dove into vaping.....First post, be gentle...
I run a restaurant in Middleton, and we still had the choice to be smoke free or not until the current ban went into effect. And we did allow it, until we were not able to.
It doesn't, per say, hurt my business as much because I have a 230 seat restaurant connected to my bar. Food is our main draw, not the bar. The local bars and taverns on the other hand are in a different situation. One of my favorite bars to visit downtown did not make it through Madison going smoke free, because they were denied an exemption, as a cigar bar. (too bad, it was a great quiet place).
I had smoked for 19 yrs until I switched to vaping. I agree that smoking is a disgusting habit, and the second hand smoke at the very least, reeks and it is bad for you and others. I was always respectful of where I smoked and tried to stay away from people when I was, even outside. However, I disagree with the bans as it should be the business owners decision. Just as it is a guests decision to shop or dine at one place or another, or an employees choice to work at one place or another.
You would think that a whole bunch of really smart people could come to some kind of compromise.
We should look into creating some kind of Wisconsin Vapers Club or something!
You bring up the cigar bar exemption and that is something that just burns my a**. I keep telling myself i have to get the minutes of that meeting where they decided what amendments to make but I keep running out of time.
Anyway, I caught a snippet of it on the news, just very quickly and one of the members was standing up and he went on to say how he knew smoking is unhealthy and something needs to be done blah, blah, blah but that "they had to realize this would affect cigars too". In other words you know he and his buddies smoke cigars. I turned to my roommate and said "You wait, cigars will be exempted from this ban" And lo and behold cigars bars are exempted. What? Cigar smoke isn't unhealthy. It made me furious that once again they protect what they want and screw the rest of us.
It makes me wonder though if just that comment wouldn't make a good court case.
You know, why couldn't they just require a special license for smoke bars and only allow a certain number of them in an area? That way, it would guarantee that smoke-free bars are available for non-smokers and smokers would still have a few places to patronize. It definitely be interesting to see which bars get more business!
I hear ya Sky.... you know that is exactly what happened. 
Of course they drug their feet long enough to allow good business' to under.
Of course they drug their feet long enough to allow good business' to under.
Well...... I'm a step ahead of you, there.....we've got the Cheddar Curtain social group here on ECF, and we're starting to mobilize regular meetings. The next one will be up in the Appleton/Oshkosh area in January. Quite the hoof for you, but the one in Feb. will be in Madison.
Lemme know if you'd be interested in joining the Cheddar group here, and I'll toss ya an invite. Glad to see another Wisconsinite here!
I wonder if that would be possible without the tavern owners killing each other over who gets the smokers. There aren't many owners that feel no smoking is going to benefit them. It's a good idea and whereas not fair to all the owners, as you stated we at least would have some places to go.
I think we should all go to the cigar bars in the rattiest clothes we have, don't take a shower for a week (), don't brush our hair or teeth () and go rub elbows with our esteemed hypocritical politicians. Find the stinkiest cigars we can get to go along with their cubans.
I'm sure at least some of the cigar bars are "for members" only but maybe we can all donate and send in a few to make their time there miserable.
I'd like to go behind the cheddar curtain... wait something just sounds wrong about that, but I'm not sure what... Oh well, can I get an invite too? Thanks!
I have a Group at vapersplace.com for Wisconsin Vapers...Vapers Club of Wisconsin.
if your a member of vapersplace.com ,you can join !!!everyone in Wisconsin or the Mid-west can join the club.
Happy Vaping, T
I get annoyed at the notion, quite prevalent on this forum, that the idea of bans is a "liberal idea". I have voiced out about it in other threads with a lot of info about how this kind of politics works. I won't do that here, so I'll be a lot more brief.
In their true, raw, unadulterated forms:
BANNING THINGS comes from CONSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY.
ALLOWING FOR FREEDOMS comes from LIBERAL IDEOLOGY.
But:
LIBERAL POLITICIANS CREATING A BAN comes from FEAR OF BEING TROUNCED BY CONSERVATIVES IN ELECTIONS, therefore APPEASE THE CONSERVATIVES.
So if you hate the liberal politicians for doing this, then by all means don't vote for them. Instead, vote in conservatives who will restrict the quality of your lives in other ways (send you to war, limit what healthcare benefits you can get). In the end, what's really the difference?
I'm just saying that if you want to REVERSE THE FLOW OF ENERGY away from draconian law-creation, DON'T CONTINUE THE LURCH TO THE RIGHT. It only helps them.
I live in Massachusetts, supposedly the most liberal state in the country, and everyone I run into, in bars, at people's homes, have NO PROBLEM AT ALL with the e-cig, they have quite intelligent, sensible views about it, they think it's a great idea. That's the PEOPLE, though. The POLITICIANS, that's something else: SPECIAL INTEREST MONEY, APPEALING TO STUPID MASSES WITH PHONY REPORTS FOR POLITICAL GAIN, etc. I'm sure my situation is really no different than yours.
That said - the Journel-Sentinel is still a 'lefty' Paper (I live here in Milwaukee). I don't think cigarette advertising is ALLOWED, but before this became law this paper had already 'decided' to BAN advertising of said cigarettes. Now, e-cigarettes have No Ban on advertising SO you see the advertising on JSonline (so far).....
The Journal-Sentinel a "lefty" paper? You must be joking. It's anything but. Once upon a time, when it was the Milw. Journal and the totally separate Milw. Sentinel, the Journal was considered the more liberal of the two, but certainly not by much.
I hope you don't get ALL of your news from this Paper OR any of the 'local' TV News. If you do then I guess I can understand you opinion.
Hey, Chip. Who are the ones pushing gun control? Who are the ones who passed the mandataroy seat belt law? Who are the ones who made it a primary ofense? Pushed for making trans fat illegal in New York? You have your ideologies reversed.
Conservativism = less government, less restriction.
Liberalism = more government involvement in your life, including regulation.
Liberalism isn't about personal freedom. Liberalism is about protecting the aggregate sum of society. This, by definition, only comes at the expense of the individual.
Conservativism = less government, less restriction.
Liberalism = more government involvement in your life, including regulation.
Liberalism isn't about personal freedom. Liberalism is about protecting the aggregate sum of society. This, by definition, only comes at the expense of the individual.
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Those who say they read unbiased sources usually mean "I read the sources that agree with my perspective". It's not that there are very few unbiased sources. The fact is there are none. If you think you're reading unbiased sources, you're kidding yourself.
The perspective that you have on things is nothing more than the result of looking at the world through the prism of today's political distortions. It is the legacy of the Reagan idea, which itself was nothing more than a backlash against liberal excess, not liberal ideology in and of itself.
A lot of people who today identify themselves as "conservatives" are nothing more than political moderates (at heart) who have bought into the idea that government must be dismantled because it introduces some kind of cynical selfishness into public life, and that the only hope that the "American majority" has to "get its Country back" is to oppose those liberals by bolstering the support of the political right wing whose very political interests are directly harmful to the interests of the American majority in every way possible.
You need to read up on the rise and fall of conservative and liberal institutions and ideas for over 200 years in this country. You will see that they evolve, change their positions on things, sometimes deceptively in order to simply win elections.
In the end, it's not really about liberals vs. conserviates, it's just about a ruling elite class against an uneducated mass populace. "Liberal" and "Conservative" are just used as labels to attach to people so they can oppose one another in ways that have nothing to do with what's going on, and to alllow those who DO know what's going on to laugh all the way to the bank.
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