Workplace bans smoking and vaping on property

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OlderNDirt

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I'm also blessed by being retired and not having to deal with it. Not to open another can of worms, but its reminds me of the matter of carrying a firearm in your vehicle, or bringing a pet to your workplace.
Aww the memories. Just another plus for getting older.

Old age is not all bad.

You beat me to that one. It is great to be retired and not have to put up with the nonsense.

What really boggles my mind is here in Nebraska when they banned smoking in all public places, business/property/real estate owners must comply with that law and will be fined if they don't enforce it. Then a conceal/carry law is passed and these same business/property/real estate owners are told by the state fathers that it is up to them if they want to allow conceal/carry on their property. Amazing that a little sticker on the entrance door satisfies the state when it comes to that law. Maybe it is because guns kill a lot quicker?

Let's face it, we live in one mucked up era!
 

towelie

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If your employer is trying to search your car they are asking for trouble. An item of Personal Property on someone elses Private Property does not give the Private Property owner the right to search said Personal Property.

Ask the LEOs posting here what they think of a person conducting a search of anothers property.

So you park your car in my yard and decide to live in it, target practice in it and smoke in it; and I have no rights? Naw, not how it works. Ever had a job from a private corp that makes you go through a metal detector, empty your pockets and wand you down before clocking in? Like a warehouse? Pants, cell phones ect are private property no? You likely gave up your "right" to privacy when you hired on. If you didn't, and you are absolutely positive that you didn't; then and only then would you have a case to make any "trouble" for an employer. Just doesn't happen these days in what we call "the bureaucracy" I'm afraid.

Its like arguing you have a right to put any substance in your body on your own time after agreeing to and endorsing (signing) substance screenings and a no tolerance policy; no different.

I would agree with you, can they dictate what is on their property, yes. Search, I would say no unless your driving a company car.

Guys, they CAN search your car as per the contract you signed when you agreed to work there IF it was present; which it likely was. The "fine print" is there at most any corporate job in the hiring package. Yes they can but not because they have a right to, because you consented the right to them. I have seen it done before, once. Some guy was overheard talking about the gun he carries in his car by a manager, so they searched and found it. It wasn't a "search" like a LEO search more like will you show us the gun or not? He did and got fired. Screamed about his "rights" and whatever never bothering to realize what he consented to to work there, like most ppl not reading the EULA from Microsoft or whatever.

Guess what though? They were in the process of firing the guy already after multiple disciplinary infractions of job performance, attendance issues ect..

Its all about the contract and the consent. If you are standing OUTSIDE your vehicle while LEO is searching it, likely you consented to BOTH. Warrants just aren't issued for routine traffic stops without cause, just doesn't happen.
 

towelie

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Welcome to McDonalds, may I take your order?
Big Mac please.
Your breath stinks and your skinny jeans are weird, would you like fries with that?
No, I'd like speak to the manager.
Ok I will get her, she has the same pedo stash as you and she is single, wink wink.

Crap now I'm fired and don't get free fries anymore, thought I had the right to speak freely?
 

Jman8

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After reading this whole thread, the stealth vape makes most sense in response to predicament OP is up against. Perhaps if we weren't on a vaping forum, I'd feel differently. Unlikely, but perhaps.

With stealth vaping comes the inherent risk of - I'd have to be caught for it to matter. And to get caught, you'd have to be abusing the risk involved, which I would think in well paying job, one wouldn't but of course, like everything, this could vary by individual.

Not vaping for 10 hours out of the working day doesn't make sense if one is a vaper. To agree to that making sense, it could, rather easily, be argued that the individual ought to consider going cold turkey. Especially if the premise is: this high paying job matters more to me than vaping. If you can't go cold turkey (which I would have tough time believing, but for argument sake, let's say you can't), then you are saying in your own roundabout way that vaping is more important than the job. Own that. Take responsibility for that.

The most sensible post I've read in this thread is:

In my interview for my current job I asked;

Is smoking allowed?

Is vaping allowed?

Does the insurance premium depend upon cotinine test results?

Would there be a pre employment physical and what might it entail?

The wrong answer to any of these questions could have easily ended the interview. Pay is important, yes. But it's merely a means to an end. The end is a comfortable life. Can't have one if you're miserable at your job.

This says that the employee's individual choices matter. It also says, in my reading, that a desire to vape (and live a comfortable life) is more important than a high paying job with an otherwise unnecessary rule in place.

As this thread deals with stuff that was agree upon after the fact, though sprung on OP the day after the job was accepted, well how I roll is I would be fighting that rule in my own strategic way that wouldn't necessarily draw lots of unwanted attention on myself unless some arrogant supervisor tried (feebly) to play hard ball. I'd be fighting for a rule that allows vaping in a designated area, by showing all the scientific evidence currently available that provides for relative harmlessness of passive vaping. If that was met with someone playing hardball who essentially is coming from position of - science doesn't matter, this is policy we are going with because we said so, then I would really question why I am in business with these people. Am I really that happy selling my soul to gain money? Really? And if somehow the answer to that was, sure I'll suck it all up and agree to this policy, well then I'd be on lookout for all possible situations that could possibly offend another person, to even a slight degree, and seek company policies in the company (maybe even lawsuits outside of the company) whereby no one should be comfortable working here unless there is a 100% clear indication they are only doing their job. As I've never seen that, or even heard of that, and can barely even imagine that, then I'm pretty sure I could get some mileage ought of this approach, even while I would be coming off like a D-bag. But, keep in mind how I, or we, got to this place where all this actually kind of makes sense, within the context that apparently we all agreed upon when we decided this company's policies trump any (and I really mean any) one that feels their individual choices could matter more.

Also just want to add, especially on vaping forum, that I think we ought to be fighting these workplace laws rather than going with principle of "my house, my rules." I realize that is seen as the end all, be all, but in my world it is not. As in clearly is not the overriding principle at work on this planet. Way closer to illusion to accept that as overriding principle. You can fight that both respectfully and boldly and unless dealing with D-bags, you can gain something in the fight, not the least of which is integrity. You could lose in that fight, but you'll know how far you are willing to push and when pushing for you is taking things too far. But I truly think not fighting it stands much more to lose than fighting it in a strategic and respectful way.

Which makes the clearest sense possible. But admittedly, I too could be persuaded by "high paying" job that I think I like, and so temptation would be there to not rock the boat. Though greater temptation would be to stealth vape. And as I started with that, I'll end with that. Stealth vaping makes most sense in response to predicament OP is up against.
 

skoony

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Your right to pursue happiness ends exactly at the point where it interferes with someone else pursuing theirs.

so there right to be a snob out ways my right to vape?
there is virtually 0 evidence that second hand vaper
is harmful nor is there ever likely to be any.
we have got to stop all this 100% safe garbage.
the scientific evidence so far indicates vaping is
98 % plus or minus 1 % than smoking.
ergo second hand vape can't possibly be harmful
to anyone.
having said that i still believe business owners should
make there own policies regarding these things.
the government could end all this nonsense by simply
passing a law saying business owners are required to make
a policy concerning vaping and post it for all to see.
Minnesota hasn't as a state mandated any vaping related bans
though many local jurisdictions have. i do not know of any business
that hasn't already addressed this issue. the state need not do
anything. but they will.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

Rossum

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the government could end all this nonsense by simply
passing a law saying business owners are required to make
a policy concerning vaping and post it for all to see.
If government was in the business of ending nonsense instead of promulgating it, they would have done that with smoking decades ago; any business establishment would have been required to post conspicuous signs at their entrances: "Smoking is (or is not) permitted here". Don't like the policy any particular business has? Don't patronize it (as a customer) or don't work there (as an employee).
 

Alicenwonderland

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I work where no ecigs are allowed, but I find that vaping a cigalike in the restroom works well. All the restrooms are single stall and my fruity vapes smell like air freshener. Cigalikes fit like a pen in my pocket. High nic flings. I vape on the trip in. One at lunch, and on the way home. I Jones a little bit, but not terrible.
 

Dyanne

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I have to say I hit the working life jackpot in June this year and scored a job working from home for a BIG nation wide Insurance company. Once my full time 7 weeks training had finished at head office I started working permanent part time from home (no more than 37.5 hrs per week) and I could pick most of my shifts some each week are mandatory shifts the rest you chose yourself. I work with a team of 14 in my group. 5 of us out the 14 in my team smoked, we had a smoking area just outside of the main office (only had sails as the roof of the area so it wasn't fun when it rained!) So even though since working at home I only had to go in the office once or twice a month for meetings the rest of the time my job gives me freedom to do what I like at home as long as I am working my required shifts. I still chose to give up smoking as it was ruining my health and have only started vaping again in the last week. I do intend to continue to vape at work when I am in the main office but only in the smoking area on my break just the same as I managed to do before I started vaping. Even when I worked full time before this job I only had a smoke break when it was my dedicated break time, always outside in the smoking area. I don't think we should treat vaping as different to smoking because it is still a habit that WE chose and not everyone will agree with the habit and not everyone will LIKE the habit so we shouldn't be forcing it on people who don't understand it or don't like it in the work place. Just my opinion.
 

Jman8

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Probably very little. I just think that voting with your feet and/or money would be more effective -- if business actually had a choice.

I think for this to be effective, the business ought to be in the know. As in:

Vaper: May I ask why you have a no vaping on premises policy?
Business: No reason. Because we say so.
Vaper: I'm glad to provide data and evidence that may lead you to at least consider a designated area for vapers.
Business: Not interested. What part of 'because we say so' do you not understand?
Vaper: Oh, okay. Just wanted to try to give my friends and family a reason for coming here, but 'because you say so' I can see no reason. Have a nice day!
 

Banana Vap70

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What I find ironic though, is that use of pharmacutical NRT over the counter products is allowed on company property, so I could use gum or lozenge there if i wanted to. But no smokeless tobacco products.

That is not only ironic, but hypocritical as well. So as long as you use their approved method of nicotine delivery then it's okay.
 

Racehorse

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The extent to which some people are willing to let others control them in order to have the illusion of "safety" never ceases to amaze me.

No offense but the extent to which people feel they should be able to pursue whatever recreational behaviors while on the clock of their employers never ceases to amaze me. ;)

If somebody wants to snack, vape, make a lot of personal phone calls, take a lot of coffee breaks, or surf the web while working, maybe they should just stay home and figure out another way to earn a paycheck.

Many of us spent most of our professional work life in workplaces where smoking was not permitted. I certainly would not have considered giving up a good salary in a fulfilling career....... for a cigarette. Seems like that would be sorta a dumb decision. :lol:

I guess it's okay if you have a job you don't care a lot about and can change jobs whenever something displeases you. Most people aren't in that position though.....and certainly aren't if they want to build any kind of real career where a solid work history is important or have to support themselves and their families..


and, in the end, it doesn't matter if vaping is not smoking. Many vapers have taken photos of light streaming thru a window, in car or small room, while vaping, and there is a "distinct" haze.....which people who don't vape or smoke are just never gonna want to sit in. Look at photos from some of the vape meets and vape conventions......the rooms are very thick and foggy.

IOW, it's not going to fly in most places. Unless you have a very benevolent employers and coworkers that either all vape or smoke or are in some way extremely tolerant.

Not vaping at work is really no different to me than not knitting, or practicing my guitar or taking a coffee break whenever you feel like a cup of coffee or a snack. That's why they call it work and you get paid to be there.

Staying home doesn't pay well but it bestows a lot of personal freedom.
 
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