I'm sorry, but that is completely false, it's their property, they can absolutely dictate what you bring in their premiss, car and all. The only way you could bring whatever you want in your car would be to park it off the premises.
Workplace bans smoking and vaping on property
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I'm sorry, but that is completely false, it's their property, they can absolutely dictate what you bring in their premiss, car and all. The only way you could bring whatever you want in your car would be to park it off the premises.
I think it varies by state...in Oklahoma I'm pretty sure an employer can NOT prohibit an employee from having a firearm in their vehicle on company property if that employee has a handgun license.
If I read it correctly, it's legal to openly carry a hangun in Oklahoma state parks now, but you can NOT vape, even outdoors, on state property.
And... the "Texas Problem*" rears it's ugly head.
Look... just because it's one way where you live (in this case, Texas), doesn't mean it's that way everywhere. Different states (and sometimes even municipalities) have differing laws. And more than one police officer has gotten in a bind for not realizing that (of course, so have many citizens).
Trust that someone from outside your area may be under differing laws, and may even know their local laws better
* I call it "the Texas Problem" from my time on the gun boards. Go on almost any gun board, and relate an occurance where your legal CCW was exposed. Within the first 2 pages of replies, someone from Texas will post about how you could have gotten busted for "brandishing". Never mind many places now have open carry: visible handgun in Texas = charge of brandishing, therefor it must be that way everywhere
Look... just because it's one way where you live (in this case, Texas), doesn't mean it's that way everywhere. Different states (and sometimes even municipalities) have differing laws. And more than one police officer has gotten in a bind for not realizing that (of course, so have many citizens).
Trust that someone from outside your area may be under differing laws, and may even know their local laws better
* I call it "the Texas Problem" from my time on the gun boards. Go on almost any gun board, and relate an occurance where your legal CCW was exposed. Within the first 2 pages of replies, someone from Texas will post about how you could have gotten busted for "brandishing". Never mind many places now have open carry: visible handgun in Texas = charge of brandishing, therefor it must be that way everywhere
Not just Texas. Florida for example was like that until a couple of years ago when they passed a law decriminalizing accidental flashs.
Same as with everything, always read the local laws for activities you will be taking part in before traveling to a place. Driving, guns, vaping, etc.
Infinity: I just call it the "Texas Problem" because that's how I first encountered it, and labeled it in my mind.
Is a common thing: expecting that "since it's this way where I'm from, it must be that way everywhere". Is what it is
Is a common thing: expecting that "since it's this way where I'm from, it must be that way everywhere". Is what it is
And... the "Texas Problem*" rears it's ugly head.
Look... just because it's one way where you live (in this case, Texas), doesn't mean it's that way everywhere. Different states (and sometimes even municipalities) have differing laws. And more than one police officer has gotten in a bind for not realizing that (of course, so have many citizens).
Trust that someone from outside your area may be under differing laws, and may even know their local laws better
* I call it "the Texas Problem" from my time on the gun boards. Go on almost any gun board, and relate an occurance where your legal CCW was exposed. Within the first 2 pages of replies, someone from Texas will post about how you could have gotten busted for "brandishing". Never mind many places now have open carry: visible handgun in Texas = charge of brandishing, therefor it must be that way everywhere
No, not a Texas thing, this would be an everywhere thing.
The owner or leasee has rights to that property, which can dictate what you can and cannot bring onto property, that would be everywhere, it is part of your rights as the owner, hence why in some states laws are enacted which defy that right, see post in this thread about OK having a law allowing firearms in parking lots of employer, this would be an example of a law enacted which defy the rights of the property owner.
Lets take this into an easier to digest example:
You own your own home. You have a friend who delivers chemicals and decides to stop by one day and say hi, and does it in his work truck. He parks in your driveway. You tell him "hey I don't want those chemicals on my property, you need to leave". He refuses. His refusal to do so now constitutes trespassing, a law which you also have in WI, not just Texas. You as a property owner have a right to dictate what is on YOUR property, just as your employer has a right to dictate what is on HIS property.
So back to the topic of discussion:
Your employer has the right to do the same thing, it is his property. Unless a provision has been written into the law specifically allowing you to bring something onto his property, they can dictate what you can and cannot have, even in your car. Normally with most employers, they have already told you what you can and cannot bring onto their property, refusal to do so will probably get you fired, refusal to leave after that firing will more than likely get you arrested, see above for trespassing.
The precedence you are referring to that deals with your vehicle as an extension of you and covered under the 4th amendment only deals when you're dealing with government officials (Police, FBI, DEA, etc, etc), not your employer.
I'm not trying to be rude or arrogant, but law is what I deal with on a daily basis. I'm all for a good debate on the subject, but as I said previously in this thread its important to under stand that your rights protect you from the government, not your employer, he has property rights as well.
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And with that, I bow out
As a Texas LEO, your knowledge of law across the land certainly trumps my knowledge of law for my home state (or anywhere else).
As a Texas LEO, your knowledge of law across the land certainly trumps my knowledge of law for my home state (or anywhere else).
Correct, tis a hierarchy thing. That being said, how often is an employer going to search your car and how often are you going to give the required permission or "key"?
If your employer is trying to search your car they are asking for trouble. An item of Personal Property on someone elses Private Property does not give the Private Property owner the right to search said Personal Property.
Ask the LEOs posting here what they think of a person conducting a search of anothers property.
Ask the LEOs posting here what they think of a person conducting a search of anothers property.
Stealth vaping, especially with it's less invasive personality just infuriates me when you think of what other 'infractions' to our individual orbits of space are violated every day ... public and national parks with blazing bbq grills, total police avoidance now days with the exhaust pipes we used to call 'lakers' , same for Harleys ,,, private property legel burning of everything including auto tires, maintenence men blowing bb sized stones at 90 miles per hour at your new car with those high speed debris blowers, try staying and breathing long near Pittsburgh's north side area when Heinz makes mustard and vinegar, not to mention every State's local slaughterhouses ... My point is not to say these things need stopped ... but just like vaping they are a part of the human condition to grill, to make noise, to love condiments, to use outdoor tools, to incinerate garbage ... and dammit ! ... to vape !
Ga probably isn't a bad state for smokers. Most public buildings allow smoking 25 feet away from entrances. More and more private companies don't allow smoking on the property and require smokers to walk past the property line to smoke.
Vaping is a grey area and some allow it ... others don't. In your car is considered to be private property and smoking is usually ignored, although the security guard may ask you do drive off the property to smoke. Vaping is still a grey area there.
My multinational company only banned smoking in company vehicles in January of 2009, the year I retired.
I'm proud to be retired. I don't have to deal with the rules anymore. Even when I was employed I was a field engineer who serviced computer room and print shop electronic hardware. I'd just go outside and smoke. I started vaping after I retired. It was nice being a free spirit who only had to go into the office once a week to turn in paperwork. That eventually went online and I could do it all electronically through a laptop and a Blackberry. My 36 year career turned out to be one of the most enjoyable parts of my life. Most of the time my manager was an hour or more away from me and we only communicated through the Blackberry or face to face at monthly team meetings where I could walk out the front door for a smoke break.
Vaping is a grey area and some allow it ... others don't. In your car is considered to be private property and smoking is usually ignored, although the security guard may ask you do drive off the property to smoke. Vaping is still a grey area there.
My multinational company only banned smoking in company vehicles in January of 2009, the year I retired.
I'm proud to be retired. I don't have to deal with the rules anymore. Even when I was employed I was a field engineer who serviced computer room and print shop electronic hardware. I'd just go outside and smoke. I started vaping after I retired. It was nice being a free spirit who only had to go into the office once a week to turn in paperwork. That eventually went online and I could do it all electronically through a laptop and a Blackberry. My 36 year career turned out to be one of the most enjoyable parts of my life. Most of the time my manager was an hour or more away from me and we only communicated through the Blackberry or face to face at monthly team meetings where I could walk out the front door for a smoke break.
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I would agree with you, can they dictate what is on their property, yes. Search, I would say no unless your driving a company car.
The only place where I'd say they have greater jurisdiction is on military bases and other government installations, but that's posted at each entry gate. They pull random vehicles and search the interior and exterior. I got pulled once on an Air Force base in a work van. I opened the back door, grabbed my inventory clipboard and handed it to them with the admonishment, "There's 1900 line items and most individual part numbers have multiple counts. The inventory list shows the proper bin location coordinates for each. Please put everything exactly back where you found it.".
He handed the list back to me and told me to have a nice day, got back in his Air Force base police car and drove off!
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I have to consider myself blessed. Even though company policy prohibits smoking and vaping indoors, they do have areas set aside for smoking. They're not totally crazy. They realize a lot of their employees smoke. I'm at a field base so far away from corporate that it's almost like being in another world. I'm not bound by a boatload of conventions as long as I get my work done. I guess you could almost call us a small anarchy bound loosely with corporate bounds.
I break when I feel I need to, but I work my tailbone off when I have to also. The company is getting its money's worth from me and then some. Let's just say my immediate supervisor isn't bothered by my vaping and could care less.
I break when I feel I need to, but I work my tailbone off when I have to also. The company is getting its money's worth from me and then some. Let's just say my immediate supervisor isn't bothered by my vaping and could care less.
I'm also blessed by being retired and not having to deal with it. Not to open another can of worms, but its reminds me of the matter of carrying a firearm in your vehicle, or bringing a pet to your workplace.
Aww the memories. Just another plus for getting older.
Old age is not all bad.
I was in the same position of corporate freedom. Corporate office was in Rochester, NY. Regional headquarters was in Atlanta, 100 miles away. I had 4 managers through my career and they all lived in cities around 100 miles away, scattered throughout the state. We had quarterly meetings in our town at a small office park location and most of our daily connections were through cell phone. Toward the last, our team meetings were frequently held online through laptop video and audio.
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