Would you do business with your old Tabaco Co?

[Statistic]

Well, probably.

They didn't force me to stick a cigarette in my mouth and light it. I knew the dangers and chose to ignore them. Is that their fault? I claim self-responsibility- one of those things that's becoming rarer and rarer.

I'm all about taking responsibility for one's own actions... However.. we are talking about companies that ended up with a 4000 ingredient recipe for the "tobacco " cigarrettes we all chose to smoke.

I'm not going to give them any more of my money, not because I blame them for my smoking, but because I will not finance them .......izing this wonderful world of vaping and eventually turning it into something horrible and ugly that ends up killing millions of people, again.

 

[FogHawg]

Amen Stat!!

 

[Thunderball]

NO, is that 10 characters??.

Hey, wheres Charlie ?

 

[Jimi D.]

I didn't smoke them regularly (they were always pricey) but Nat Sherman's were my favorite cigs of all time. If they came out with an e-juice, I'd try it.

I bet it would be stellar equipment. Not like most of the toys that are out today.

 

[Gautama]

Altria would no more destroy small e-juice shops than Budweiser destroys small, craft breweries. Quality product keeps customers coming back.

This is true, but customers have to be willing to try the product to know that it's quality. At least here in the states, convenience seems to trump quality as far as the masses are concerned.

 

[JasonK94Z]

I wouldn't trust what else they might be putting in the ejuice to keep me hooked! As much as I enjoy vaping, I'm in this to quit. Being addicted to unnecessary things like this sux in my opinion.

 

[Vapo Marx]

I turned up something interesting tonight while doing a little research on the origins of the electronic cigarette. One of the first - if not the first - patents for an e-cig type device was granted to Herbert A. Gilbert in 1965 for a "Smokeless Non-Tobacco Cigarette." That's a cool piece of trivia but the part that's germane to this discussion is this list of subsequent patents that referenced Gilbert's. Check it out:

Patent US3200819 - SMOKELESS NON-TOBACCO CIGARETTE - Google Patents

As you can see, BT was "looking into" e-cigs a long time before the e-cig market even existed. It must have ...... them off to no end when the Chinese (notably inventor Hon Lik and his employer, Ruyan) brought the market into being with no help from them. And now they're looking for their piece of the action.

To elaborate on my earlier response, while I would try an e-cig product from a reputable tobacco business like Sherman's that always sold honest, unadulterated products, I wouldn't touch anything from BT.

Edit: I've started a new thread about Hon Lik and his patent, if anyone's interested: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-electronic-atomization-cigarette-patent.html

 

[serenity21899]

For the most part no. I started with Blu, but now that I realize they are owned by a tobacco company, never again. The only exception would be to buy a disposable in a pinch.

 

[BostonJim]

Well, probably.

They didn't force me to stick a cigarette in my mouth and light it. I knew the dangers and chose to ignore them. Is that their fault? I claim self-responsibility- one of those things that's becoming rarer and rarer.

I started smoking in the 80's and theres no way anybody can say "we didn't know" back then. Hell, even as far back as the mid 70's we knew about the dangers of smoking. So if Marlboro came out with a vaping device that was good and economical. why not?

 

[THETOTALLYCOOL]

I don't hold a grudge against them, but don't feel an alliance either.

I think they're missing the boat on vapor and I want to be on the team that's winning. If RJ or Morris corners the market somehow, I might get on board.

I'm not wild about my vaping products coming from China, though. If the Americans or Europeans can figure out a way to make a strong presence in this market, I'll switch over.

 

[Discord]

I smoked djarum, and hold no resentment. The only thing I don't like about djarum is that they had to start using tobacco wrappers to get around the ......ed US ban on flavored cigs, which all the clove stuff got trapped in. If Djarum came out with a Bali Hai ejuice, I'd definitely try it. None of the clove ejuices I've tried taste anything close to the various djarum products.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I don't hold a grudge against them, but don't feel an alliance either.

I think they're missing the boat on vapor and I want to be on the team that's winning. If RJ or Morris corners the market somehow, I might get on board.

I'm not wild about my vaping products coming from China, though. If the Americans or Europeans can figure out a way to make a strong presence in this market, I'll switch over.

Some things, like juice, are easy to get domestic. I use a ProVari and that's an American product.

Some things like atties, cartos, and clearomizers are hard to avoid China on.

 

[Signal30]

Big tobacco has the money to market their ecigs. They do not need the help of smaller ecig companies other then observing what they are coming out with.

BT will get their customers because their products will be in every convenience store, supermarket, etc. Also keep in mind that BT has the resources and funding for research and development to come out with new technologies. BT is taking ecigs VERY seriously. They are not blind to the stats showing increasing sales.

My sister works for Phillip Morris. They were last on the ecig rave because they wanted to see how everything was going to play out in reference to sales, FDA regulations, etc.

 

[zoiDman]

Would you do business with your old Tabaco Co?

I'm assuming that you are phrasing this to be Doing Business with BT in a Free Market? Such as we are Currently Enjoying.

Maybe a Good Question would be... If BT were the ONLY companies supplying e-Liquids or Pre-Filled Cartos, would you Continue to use an e-Cigarette?

 

[Vapo Marx]

Oh, believe me, no matter whose name is on the product, it's going to be made in China. Even products that are assembled in the US are almost certainly made from offshore components. The electronic component manufacturing industry in this country is essentially extinct.

 

[BostonJim]

Oh, believe me, no matter whose name is on the product, it's going to be made in China. Even products that are assembled in the US are almost certainly made from offshore components. The electronic component manufacturing industry in this country is essentially extinct.

Not really true, INTEL, Motorola, IBM, texas Instruments(TI) ans a host of others have very large manufacturing factories located in the US. I used to work for a supplier of large equipment, and a factories I've seen in the US is astounding. If only some of those mentioned above would get into the electronic componet part of the e-cig market the US could dominate.

But your right on one part, those companies are only interested in high-end electronic components, so e-cig is going to be a chinese driven device.

 

[LeoRex]

Perhaps... but what is the ratio of vapers vs smokers? Then of those, who go the disposable route?

We have a small, but enthusiastic vaping crowd that supports a pretty good lineup of juice shops...

I think my micro brew analogy works..There are countless small breweries out there, selling their wares to enthusiasts. It is a thriving industry, and one that survives with the presence of massive commercial brewers.

If a company like Altria gets serious about e-cigs, their product will probably be ok, but not on par with the Legend I have in my tank right now. It might actually help. As the mass marketing of e-cigs gets more people vaping, many might branch out and sample juices from the small shops.

 

[zoiDman]

Perhaps... but what is the ratio of vapers vs smokers? Then of those, who go the disposable route?

We have a small, but enthusiastic vaping crowd that supports a pretty good lineup of juice shops...

I think my micro brew analogy works..There are countless small breweries out there, selling their wares to enthusiasts. It is a thriving industry, and one that survives with the presence of massive commercial brewers.

If a company like Altria gets serious about e-cigs, their product will probably be ok, but not on par with the Legend I have in my tank right now. It might actually help. As the mass marketing of e-cigs gets more people vaping, many might branch out and sample juices from the small shops.

So do you foresee any Changes to the e-Cigarette Market in the Future? Or do you think it will Good Old Healthy Competition between Existing e-Liquid Retailers and BT?

BTW - Have you heard what is going on in England lately regarding e-Cigarettes?

 

[LeoRex]

I'll preface by saying that regulation is the elephant in the room. If governments overreact and go nutty and start outright bans, then everything goes into the toilet. But... there are a TON of people who have smoked their last cigarette because of vaping, and that fact will eventually soak in. But from what I've seen, a lot of the regulation is geared more towards making the practice safe... You have a liquid that can be very dangerous if not handled correctly... and we are inhaling it into our lungs... making sure that it is a safe product to do so shouldn't be looked at with scorn. As I mentioned before in a thread a while back, a company in China put pesticide into baby formula to save some money... they put poison into baby formula to make a quick buck... if there is someone out there willing to do THAT, what is to stop someone from using something nasty in, say, pure nic, to make it cheaper?

But...

I think that if BT jumped headlong into the vaping business, the smaller 'boutique' shops will survive and do well. As I mentioned, I don't think that Vuze or whatever they are calling it is going to blow everyone away. To be back to the analogy, I think it's going to be the Budweiser of vapes... passable and fine and digestible and easy to use by the masses... but it won't be the end-all-be-all of vapes. There will still be a market for APVs and mechs and RBAs and evods and juices from the likes of AV and Heather's and MBV... Their customer base won't run away (unless forced to... see first point) and there will still be new vapers who find their products as they branch out and look for new stuff.

This is a new industry, and 5/10 years from now, it is going to look much different from today. It could go horribly wrong if governments decide to bring down the ban-hammer... but if they just take the "we just want to make sure it is a safe product" route and avoid draconian rules and regulations, we'll all be better off.

If RJR's Vuze comes out, I'll probably give it a look.. if it is decent enough, I might consider it as a backup or emergency option if I drop my Vamo in a lake or something... As far as any morality play due to RJR's past... well.... maybe things change. I still buy Shell, Exxon, et. al. gas and their history isn't exactly lilly white. I've owned VWs... I'm sure something I own, probably electronic, has components made is some sweat shop somewhere... something each and every one of us has in our possession has been made by a company that has done some shady, underhanded and morally reprehensible to make a buck. If I am going to start taking a stand and say "I won't use XXX's products because they did Y" I might have a hard go at life.

If someone chooses to go that route... cool. Just don't go around passing judgement.

 

[HauntedMyst]

For me its simple, I wouldn't trust a cigarette companies ejuice. I wouldn't trust what is in there. A small ejuice vendor has more at stake to make sure his product is as clean and simple as possible.