WTA is the future

[Brobdingnagian]

But, that would be quite costly.

While that is true, it's also only the case if someone was adding the WTA at the same ratios. If they decided to put in, say, 1/10th the amount, the WTA would still have a cumulative effect since it has a longer half-life than nicotine. Also, the nicotines vendors use can effect the TH and overall nicotine effect of blends as well. Don't ask me why, because there are many producers/sellers of nicotine who haven't provided test results from batches, right now we just don't know.

That said, natural tobacco extractions and blends derived from them will have the full spectrum of alkaloids. We're not sure how much or little, but it's definitely in there if tobacco is being used to produce a flavor. WTA as a concentrate provides the direct benefit of being able to recreate the effect of tobacco without its flavor being added to your blend.

Tobacco sure makes other things taste better somehow, and I really just don't know why. Maybe it's like fine wines where the true attributes can shine when paired with something of equal excellence, but whether it's from WTA, non-wta, or tobacco extracts in blends, whatever blends keep us from smoking paired with the devices that keep us from smoking are our personal best blends and devices.

Taste will always be subjective. What I personally notice is that WTA packs more punch out of an atomizer than a cartomizer or any other device. Maybe it's the wicks? I don't know, I'm not a scientist. I just know enough to be dangerous.

Remember, one of the features of WTA is a TH with a little something "extra". Perhaps it's a texture shift to some, a flavor shift to others, a different mouth feel to the blends... Sometimes hard to notice. But watch your overall juice consumption over a few days of vaping solely WTA. Then try a day without WTA. I'm not recommending everyone and their uncle try it, goodness no. But if you find normal liquids aren't doing it and you keep upping your nic levels... then maybe, just maybe, WTA is what you seek.

If it's not appeasing to you, the offering of natural tobacco extracts may be right up your alley if you desire that extra "push" to TH/flavor.

I'm rambling now, so vape on!

 

[AaronY]

But, that would be quite costly.

I use WTA juice as a treat so I think I would get some. I also think Aroma wholesales it cheaper but I am not sure on that. It is great stuff.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I use it as a treat as well--I just so happen to treat myself to it all day!

 

[snork]

I use WTA juice as a treat so I think I would get some. I also think Aroma wholesales it cheaper but I am not sure on that. It is great stuff.

Wholesales it? To whom?

 

[Bluerooster]

While that is true, it's also only the case if someone was adding the WTA at the same ratios. If they decided to put in, say, 1/10th the amount, the WTA would still have a cumulative effect since it has a longer half-life than nicotine. Also, the nicotines vendors use can effect the TH and overall nicotine effect of blends as well. Don't ask me why, because there are many producers/sellers of nicotine who haven't provided test results from batches, right now we just don't know.

That said, natural tobacco extractions and blends derived from them will have the full spectrum of alkaloids. We're not sure how much or little, but it's definitely in there if tobacco is being used to produce a flavor. WTA as a concentrate provides the direct benefit of being able to recreate the effect of tobacco without its flavor being added to your blend.

Tobacco sure makes other things taste better somehow, and I really just don't know why. Maybe it's like fine wines where the true attributes can shine when paired with something of equal excellence, but whether it's from WTA, non-wta, or tobacco extracts in blends, whatever blends keep us from smoking paired with the devices that keep us from smoking are our personal best blends and devices.

Taste will always be subjective. What I personally notice is that WTA packs more punch out of an atomizer than a cartomizer or any other device. Maybe it's the wicks? I don't know, I'm not a scientist. I just know enough to be dangerous.

Remember, one of the features of WTA is a TH with a little something "extra". Perhaps it's a texture shift to some, a flavor shift to others, a different mouth feel to the blends... Sometimes hard to notice. But watch your overall juice consumption over a few days of vaping solely WTA. Then try a day without WTA. I'm not recommending everyone and their uncle try it, goodness no. But if you find normal liquids aren't doing it and you keep upping your nic levels... then maybe, just maybe, WTA is what you seek.

If it's not appeasing to you, the offering of natural tobacco extracts may be right up your alley if you desire that extra "push" to TH/flavor.

I'm rambling now, so vape on!

The Only difference that I've found in Th has been with the flavors themselves, and mabe the base (VG/Pg), not nic content, or WTA content.
I've got some high nic juice that will have you on nicotene overload, and the only way you'll know you got a hit is the massive plume of vapor. And I've also got some 0 nic juice that will have such a Th that you'll barf up yer neighbors lungs. So nic content isn't the way to determine TH.

 

[kingcobra]

I haven't read through this thread so I apologize if I am repeating things that have already been covered but I want to add a couple of comments...

WTA is still in its infancy so to speak and it's still a pretty niche market but as time goes on this may really change. It's more expensive to produce and a lot of the resistance has been borne out of a lot of vapers being pretty cheap as far as what they are willing to pay for juice. Some people who will think nothing about spending a couple grand on hardware and in fact lustily pursue every PV out there will be really put out by spending a few dollars more for WTA juice.

It really comes down to whether WTA is worth the extra money, and this is a highly individualized thing, so the only way to even know this is to buy some and try it. Having said that though, the production of WTA right now is very limited and from a personal standpoint I'd hate to not be able to buy it easily, I would really hate that in fact as I'm one of the people who require it.

Regular nic juice does not do it for me and I've no interest in just vaping that, although I would try snus first before I went back to smoking. This is where I was at when I first got WTA, it came down to that or snus and I had to have one or the other soon. I decided to try the WTA first and have been completely content ever since.

Speaking of contentment, I think that this is a good word to use as far as whether vapers are as content vaping as they were smoking. If you talk to people they will generally tell you that they aren't. I know some are, and that's fine, but even those people may find more contentment with WTA than with regular juice.

I think that as time goes on, and especially if and when WTA ends up being produced in a much larger scale, that its popularity will really grow. It is, IMO anyway, and the opinion of some others who have tried it, a clearly superior form of smoking replacement, which is what we are after with vaping. Many people have set the bar pretty low though, just looking to get off and stay off smoking, but that's not really the potential here. It really should be not only replacing smoking with an alternative that is as good, which is something that really isn't being achieved with regular juice, it should be to find something that is noticeably better. For me at least, vaping WTA is way better than smoking in every way.

One of these ways is of course cost. Sure this costs more than regular juice but it is only a fraction of what it costs me to smoke. I think that a lot of people make the mistake of comparing the cost of WTA to other juice, however this isn't even a fair comparison due to the inferiority of regular juice compared to smoking in terms of satisfaction. I used to spend $20 a day on cigarettes, and now I spend a couple bucks a day total on vaping, including juice and supplies. That's a ridiculous amount of savings.

I read something interesting in this thread concerning the delivery of WTA with different methods, which includes different atties and cartos. I have found this to be the case as well, and in particular, higher heat settings having a poorer delivery of WTA. When you get to the point where the flavor becomes muted, the WTA effect seems to be muted as well. I've also found that atties and cartos that deliver the best taste also seem to deliver the best WTA effects. This all only makes sense actually.

 

[rothenbj]

KC, that was a pretty good summation of the difference for some of us. I went the other direction, moving to snus when I found vaping was okay, but couldn't completely eliminate smoking. I was a 2-3 PADer which it sounds like you were. I actually bought the WTA more as an experiment to see if it would do for me what snus did. Unfortunately, I like my 4-5 portions of snus so much that giving that up for an experiment never happened.

I can load up a ML of WTA and it will last me 3 or 4 days depending on mood. It's not like smoking where I had that urgency to light up every half hour or so. I think I use it more as I would a cigar, but with no need to finish it. A puff or two here and there and it will be just as good the next time I feel like it.

I'm certainly not in a hurry to see those that are satisfied with nicquid keep buying nicquid. It keeps those that aren't in a situation where WTA remains relatively available.

 

[kingcobra]

What I have found that works for me is mixing the WTA premixed juice with regular juice. I started out vaping WTA straight, then started mixing it half and half, and now I'm at 1/3 WTA and 2/3 regular which is all I vape now. So now I get full satisfaction with every vape, which is the way I like it. Some people like yourself will do it differently, and vape regular juice most of the time and take a hit of WTA when they need it, that's fine too. The important thing though is to find out what means you like the best

 

[AaronY]

What I have found that works for me is mixing the WTA premixed juice with regular juice. I started out vaping WTA straight, then started mixing it half and half, and now I'm at 1/3 WTA and 2/3 regular which is all I vape now. So now I get full satisfaction with every vape, which is the way I like it. Some people like yourself will do it differently, and vape regular juice most of the time and take a hit of WTA when they need it, that's fine too. The important thing though is to find out what means you like the best

Don't the flavors clash when you mix?

 

[Stubby]

You may want to read this thread starting about here to get a clue as to why it is a bad idea for venders to run away from "actual tobacco". as you call it. It's a silly idea that isn't working. Besides that the courts have already classified e-liquid as a tobacco product. The venders are running away from shadows created by the ANTZ. It's a losing proposition.

I would very much doubt venders are not offering WTA for the reasons you state. The real reason is that your standard kitchen sink e-liquid operation simply doesn't have the expertise to make it. It took Aroma nearly two years to get WTA up and running. It's not a quick buck operation, and from my understanding (I have no inside information on this but just from what I have read here) the profit margins are actually lower then with standard liquid. Venders don't do it because they can't.

Your rationalization falls apart rather quickly and is rather misguided at best.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Hey LeDean, I am curious about this statement I quoted from your post. Do you feel that NET vendors are in the same class as "actual tobacco"? Or even vendors that extract their own nicotine? This is not a challenge to you, it's just me trying to get a further understanding of where a vendor may or may not extend his/her categorization.

p.s. Full disclosure: I vape WTA as well as NET the majority of the time.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Oh, none taken (though I am not a vendor). I am just curious if you place naturally extracted tobacco (NET) in the same category that has another "link" to tobacco like WTA?

 

[Mr.Mann]

Okay. That's was all I wanted to know really. Thanks for answering my question.

Since these extraction processes are relatively new, I don't believe that is what the FDA is looking into as much as standard juice; though I think your point is that (those extractions) will fuel the fire if not be a "final straw" of sorts. All I can say is I hope for my sake (and many others), there remains the option of standard juice, NET, and WTA--becasue I use them all for different purposes...well, I use WTA with the most purpose.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I have learned I need to read and re-read posts very carefully to gain as clear of an understanding as possible to what the poster is attempting to say. It is definitely hard for us WTA vapers, because for whatever reason, we read many, many posts that are uninformed and flat out judgmental of us and the product we love so much. I didn't think you were doing that, as a matter of fact, I thought you were doing the opposite of that*; but, you will have to understand that we get defensive sometimes. For instance, there is a thread/poll that asks a simple question of "Has WTA juice worked for you?"; you would think that is a clear cut discussion for those that have actually tried it?! Well, not really. The thread has gotten several posts from people that haven't tried it, and their opinions about it--which isn't bad per se, but there has been some negativity born out of some that, which I believe could be alleviated by them just starting their own thread, or posting here. I really was perplexed by it, and still don't understand why some are so vociferous in their opinions about what someone else vapes; but, my point is that we can sometimes feel attacked...though I didn't feel that way from you.

 

[Stubby]

I wasn't at all offended, and we all know the value of opinions.

I again would advise you to read the thread about the issue trying to run away from tobacco.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...till-using-tobacco-product-3.html#post6355618

What you are trying to do is nothing more then shadow boxing. What you are doing is showing how the venders are not at all interested in promoting the concepts of tobacco harm reduction and dealing with the misinformation and deceptions that have been going on for the last few decades. We are long past the point where the e-liquid industry can try and hide in the corner and hope no one sees you.

The venders are not doing anyone any favors by trying to run away from tobacco. The problem is not that e-liquid is not a tobacco product, which it surely is, but the misconceptions about tobacco.

 

[Mr.Mann]

The problem is not that e-liquid is not a tobacco product, which it surely is, but the misconceptions about tobacco.

Can't argue with that!

 

[Stubby]

By the venders trying to distant themselves from tobacco you surely are doing harm to tobacco harm reduction, and actually doing harm to the e-cig industry.

The concepts of tobacco harm reduction has been around for decades in the form of smokeless tobacco. E-cigs are just the new kid on the block. People like Bill Godshall and Brad Rodu and the like have been advocating using reduced risk tobacco products well before e-cigs existed. There are well established concepts and mountains of studies showing that tobacco is not the problem. Its combustion of tobacco that is the overwhelming risk factor.

You are in fact pushing misguided and misinformed views on the vaping public and the public at large. Your irrational fear of tobacco shows just how far down the rabbit hole you are willing to go. The fact that you are using this irrational fear to justify why you don't do WTA is moving into the realm of...... what is the word I'm looking for...... silly...... misinformed..... misguided. Take your pick.

You have every right to not make or distribute WTA, but to claim your reason for it is because it makes it more of a tobacco product, and that is a bad thing, is moving into the realm of silliness.

I remember years back when I was having the same type of discussion when CASAA was first being formed. There was one faction that wanted CASAA to be an e-cig only advocacy group, and the reasons for doing so are much like what you are saying now. They wanted to disassociate themselves from tobacco and tobacco companies. I and a number of others argued that that was a mistake and CASAA should advocate for the concepts of tobacco harm reduction, in whatever form that may take. Fortunately the more inclusive side won out and today CASAA is much better for it.

Years later and the same type of misguided approach is being pushed by you. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. You are simple perpeuating the myth that tobacco is the problem, when the science tell us else wise.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Another day on the forum in the life of a WTA vaper. I do find it interesting though that nicotine is not considered a tobacco product by some. I have several Jewish and Muslim friends that won't eat gummy bears or jell-o because gelatin is a product of pork. Now, I don't think anyone necessarily equates are beloved candy with pork, but it is nonetheless related because it comes from it...and well, nicotine is definitely of tobacco...whether it is extracted in-house, or out-sourced.

No offense to LeDean: I have gone back and forth with a member who was an unregistered supplier, and I have also seen another thread where a supplier was taking the opposing view. When it comes down to it, I think seeing as it is only two vendors who sell WTA, it is kind of pointless to oppose it--the thread is called WTA is the future, but I am not seeing any signs of it--unless you count my future plans of buying a lot more. LOL. I think as long as we are in use of nicotine, then someone is extracting something somewhere, and we all are in the same boat; now, if you want to oppose something, I think adding caffeine to nicotine infused juice may be a better foe...and THAT is truly something added.

 

[rothenbj]

Stubby is correct. No matter how much you want to distance yourself from tobacco, that road was paved when the courts decided E cigs were tobacco products instead of pharma products. In addition you alienate smokers throwing tobacco under the bus.

I don't see WTA as ever becoming the standard. First it's benefit is only for a segment of the smoking population and it only increases the cost.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I do find it interesting though that nicotine is not considered a tobacco product by some. :

Isn't it all optional? I don't have to have WTA, TA, NET, nic, or caffeine. LOL. I wasn't calling you out, I was commenting on "some" that do feel that way. The argument had turned that way, even if you hadn't quite made that point. It does, however, get a little tricky for us as consumers getting into a debate (whether intentionally or not) with a juice vendor about two other juice vendors products.

I am curious, I assume your are a vaper yourself? Have you ever vaped WTA or an NET?