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radiokaos

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As for DIYWTA, saw an interesting vid from tropical-bob Spend Less on Your Tobacco Habit VI - YouTube involving a cigar and a ecig. Tried it out and it wasn't too bad.

I remember seeing that video for the first time. Tropical Bob is my hero. He is a cool cat with a taste for high nic.

However in that video all he is doing is a simple soak or maceration in either PG or a soak with Nic and PG. By the way its funny to look at the video at the 2:40 mark. It almost looks like he has some serious paraphernalia .

Doing that method will make your eliquid taste good but I think very little if any alkaloids will transfer over. Maceration "soaks" are great for flavor but are unable to bring alkaloids over.

Here is a good write up from Dvap another old school ecf veteran illustrating why soaks are not a effective method to obtain minor alkaloids including nicotine.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cco-nicotine-flavor-chemists-perspective.html

Soaking tobacco for nicotine and flavor - A chemists' perspective
by DVap , 06-27-2010 at 06:37 PM (2741 Views)

Here's a topic I've addressed a number of times in various threads, but I thought I might discuss it here.

What can one expect from soaking tobacco in various solvents (alcohol, PG, VG) to get some real tobacco flavor and/or nicotine?

As far as getting flavor, that's a pretty easy question. If you soak and get a result that you like (either as a liquid in itself or as a flavor additive to regular eliquid) and you don't mind the extra wear and tear on your attys, you've done good. (Assuming you accept that anything that involves soaking tobacco will be less "safe" than good clean regular e-liquid).

As far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration, soak procedures are self-limiting. What I mean by this is simply that the more tobacco you soak (your nicotine source), the more solvent it's going to take to get nicotine to come out of the tobacco.

Here's a practical example:

You have 1 gram of tobacco. It's likely that this 1 gram of tobacco contains around 20 mg of nicotine. If you use 1 mL of PG to extract it, you could get as much as 20 mg/mL, right?

Wrong.

How much of the nicotine will come out? Maybe 50% if you're feeling generous, probably less. So now we're down from 20 mg/mL to 10 mg/mL. But what's this? When we add 1 mL of PG to 1 gram of tobacco, the tobacco just slurps up the PG.

So we add more PG, say 5 mL total. Now we've got some liquid on top to extract into.. but now we're putting that 10 mg nicotine (tops!) into 5 mL of PG, so we're down to 2 mg/mL and we've still made brown goo.

You see the problem.
 

CharlieGirl

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CharlieGirl, I just had a super long phone conversation with Jerry and he said the concentrate will be available again very shortly! The wonderful thing about the concentrate is you can customize other vendors juices to fit your "double-u-tee-a" needs (I have typed the three letters way too much lately). ;)

Oh sweet!!! That's awesome, I sure hope I am on the ball and can snag some this time! It seems either I have no money, or there is no concentrate! Is there a way I can sign up to be notified when it comes in?

As for people having problems with the price of the juice, lemme guess, they don't even need it, cuz if they did they would think it was well worth the extra cost! I am on a fixed income and have no money to play with, but if I afforded cigarettes, and WTA's are way better, it's a no brainer, yes?
 

AaronY

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CharlieGirl, I just had a super long phone conversation with Jerry and he said the concentrate will be available again very shortly! The wonderful thing about the concentrate is you can customize other vendors juices to fit your "double-u-tee-a"
What juices do you want to mix to have wta. I find Jerrys base and Juices to be amazing. I am really liking that Cappuccino. I will post the review shortly :p
 

CharlieGirl

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Speaking for myself - yes I'm a super addict. I have an addictive personality - I tend to overdue things. I'm lucky to have not been consumed and destroyed as a couple of my friends. Cigarettes I guess because they are legal and for a long time socially acceptable are my last addictive substances to quit. (Ok some of the stuff that almost took me over happened 20 or 30 years ago - but looking back I see how I rationalized - I can handle it - or I don't have a problem).

Without WTA I'd likely be back on analogs. I vape it all the time. Just switch off to a non-WTA a few times a day for a change of flavor. Luckily between Jerry and Ethan I've always had WTA available to me. To be honest, when i get down to around 70 ml's of WTA around I start getting nervous about running out. It make me quite anxious, like an addict, worrying about his next fix. So I order some more an ration what I have until the next order comes in.

OK - I just mentioned 'getting anxious'. No I don't really fall into depressions - but I do deal with chronic anxiety - I've been treated for this for years. Went through all the prescription meds you could possibly think of, and most of them made me worse due to one side effect or another. I've been med free for a couple years, I got tired of being drugged and not being able to tell if I was feeling 'off' because of the drugs or because of my own mental state. I decided no more meds. I believe the anxiety is why I was such a heavy smoker. One I couldn't sit still without doing something and two, I do believe the MAIO's and Nicotine helped to a degree to keep me settled. The more I smoked the better I felt - but it left a huge guilt trip on me because I knew I was killing myself, like slow suicide :) (No! I've never been suicidal - a lot of other issues but not that one).

i know nicotine by itself does not work for me. Even WTA juice is borderline for me. He helps me curb my desire for a cigarette but it does not replace it like some people say. I know I've already built up a tolerence to WTA juice. When I first started vaping it, it had a better effect. I could 'feel it'. I don't so much 'feel it' anymore, it just seems to curb the desire for an analog. I think it was the same things when we started smoking. Remember how good that 1st cigarette of the day tasted and then after 40 years of smoking - I needed that 1st cigarette in the morning, I didn't care what it tasted like.

I've been vaping WTA since last October as my main vape. It's only within the last week, that I've made a conscience effort to vape more non-WTA each day than WTA. Some days it worked, but if it's stressful day or my anxiety is up, it's a WTA vape day. Real or imagined - I don't care - WTA is keeping me of cigarettes. Harmful or not WTA is keeping me off cigarettes (and as has been said, if it is harmful, it has to be magnitudes less harmful than smoking tobacco.

Told to me by my doctor - nicotine does have positive benefits. It helps reduce stress, hence helps you relax, and it can help relieve some kinds of pain, there were a couple other benefits he mentioned but I don't remember them. He also said in and of itself nicotine is not necessary bad for our body, such as to the cardio system. He said he never tells this to his smoking clients because he doesn't want them to have an excuse to continue smoking. He told me this when I had been smoke free for a bit over six months.

I simplistically look at it like this. For some people smoking was a habit to break (much easier for them, but still a challenge) for others like me, its an addiction to deal with. Each day I have to refuse to give in to it. I can't even be one of those people that take a few puffs on a cigarette months after they stopped and say 'ugh' how did I smoke that. If I take another puff on a cigarette, I'll be back to 2 PPD+ a week later.

Yikes! I unloaded Charlie Girl - how did you get me to do that.

Great post Mike, we sure are on the same page! I can totally relate to everything you wrote, uncanny! Your first sentence said speaking for yourself, but you just as well could have been speaking for me too. Also, you really verified that addictions are instigated by us attempting to self medicate our issues and problems, be it depression, anxiety, whatever causes us grief, we try to remedy it the best way we can. I have a friend who lives with us that is bipolar who is not um, really fond of all the meds and side affects, and he has a lot of anxiety issues. He gave up on those meds too, for multiple reasons, including current lack of insurance, but when he is feeling really shaky he just has a beer to mellow him out! LOL, Like he said, it is sure healthier than the pills, less dangerous, tastes better and much cheaper to boot! Made me laugh! I just recently turned him on to vaping and he was the one who bought the WTA that I tried...he (we) blew though 2 bottles in 2 days, no sweat! Loved it! Gotta get more, but we both have to wait for $$$, dammit!
Now here's the thing..he likes the WTA and said it was more like a cig, but envisions using it as a "crutch" to fully transition to vaping, since he is actually doing quite well already without. Not me! I have made no more progress just vaping in 7 months. I have days when my resolve is stronger than others but there is never a day without a damn analog looming in it because I am a weak, sniveling addict! LOL. If I lived alone, I might endure the trials of just suffering it out, but with people around, and my miserable non smoking self, they would be throwing cigarettes at me anyway (amongst other things!) and wishing for my speedy demise. Just not a good plan.
Mike, I think you are the first person to truly echo my feelings about all this and though I am sorry you feel this way too, it is also kind of a comfort to know I'm not the only one and someone else understands. It is really frustrating, and I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I guess at least we have something to help us, so it could be worse. I will be supremely happy to make it through an entire day without feeling that overpowering need for a weed. I could handle a craving, but not the intense need. If WTA's can do that for me, I think I can handle the rest. Thanks for the input!
 

cigarbabe

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cigarbabe, the expression in your avatar makes me think you could unexpectedly knock somebody's lights out if they crossed you, but your posts reveal such a thoughtful and sweet inner spirit. I just love reading your posts! :)

Aww thanks MikenGA!
We should really talk sometime. I was hoping to have seen you in one of my shows at TVN .
The last of mine {shows} were last night but I still have "Vaping with the MassHooles!!" on Friday at 8-10pm EST on the stickam channel.
Come in and I'll give away some WTA juice!
Just log in and say hi to me and UpStomp {who also makes very tasty juice by the way!}
totalvapingnetwork | Stickam
This will be my absolute last show on the TVN network since I am headed to my summer home in a {what else!} nudist camp.
Hope to see some of you in the room!
C.B.
 
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AaronY

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Aww thanks MikenGA!
We should really talk sometime. I was hoping to have seen you in one of my shows at TVN .
The last of mine {shows} were last night but I still have "Vaping with the MassHooles!!" on Friday at 8-10pm EST on the stickam channel.
Come in and I'll give away some WTA juice!
Just log in and say hi to me and UpStomp {who also makes very tasty juice by the way!}
totalvapingnetwork | Stickam
This will be my absolute last show on the TVN network since I am headed to my summer home in a {what else!} nudist camp.
Hope to see some of you in the room!
C.B.

Are you going to do your show after the summer? I need to remember to check it out


AaronY www.EcigJuiceReview.com sent from my iPad
 

Brobdingnagian

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Thanks for the offer, C.B.; I just received a few bottles of WTA & ought to be ok for a couple of weeks. I had never thought vaping higher VG WTA would be so enjoyable. It's just smooth, flavorful, and that same kick that WTA has is there. I guess that high PG was my congestion culprit this whole time, because more VG has been very kind to me thus far.
 
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cigarbabe

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So glad you managed to get some brob!
I have found at various times the vg/pg thing can make me quite congested also and it can take a while to figure out which base is doing what thing lol!
Aaron I was not able to do Friday's show due to being at camp with no internet so I may make up that show tonight possibly on "Vaping with the MassHoooles!" at 8-10pm EST.
Check out TVN for more info or the media pages here at ECF.
totalvapingnetwork | Stickam
C.B.
 

Ctor

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There's a lot I feel is missing after quitting analogs and starting vaping. My smoker's cough is missing. Constanly clearing my throat is missing. Wheezing while taking deep breaths is missing. The smell on my breath and clothes is missing. Feeling more tired all the time is missing. And having low general stamina is missing. And spending $7-$8 a pack of analogs is missing. And most of all, my wife nagging me about quitting analogs is missing. :)

Why would I want to introduce another addictive substance beyond nicotine into e-juice, with the possibility of FDA bans on nicotine juices looming on the horizon? One substance addiction is bad enough, why add a second that would make it even harder to stay off analogs if nic juice is banned?

If WTA's help anyone stay off analogs, and Nic only juices couldn't otherwise, that's great, but if a vendor I use started adding WTAs into all their juices, I'd switch vendors.
 

Mr.Mann

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There's a lot I feel is missing after quitting analogs and starting vaping. My smoker's cough is missing. Constanly clearing my throat is missing. Wheezing while taking deep breaths is missing. The smell on my breath and clothes is missing. Feeling more tired all the time is missing. And having low general stamina is missing. And spending $7-$8 a pack of analogs is missing. And most of all, my wife nagging me about quitting analogs is missing. :)

Why would I want to introduce another addictive substance beyond nicotine into e-juice, with the possibility of FDA bans on nicotine juices looming on the horizon? One substance addiction is bad enough, why add a second that would make it even harder to stay off analogs if nic juice is banned?

If WTA's help anyone stay off analogs, and Nic only juices couldn't otherwise, that's great, but if a vendor I use started adding WTAs into all their juices, I'd switch vendors.


I have been using WTA most of the time as of late but I am fine without it. When I vaped standard juices, I kept my pv with me all the time and couldn't get enough! Now, I vape WTA in the morning and go to work...without my pv. Would I like to take a drag now? Sure. But, it isn't this hyper addictive substance that causes me withdrawal symptoms or anything close to that. What I crave is nicotine, and a similar effect of the calming experience of smoking. I don't have a heavier addiction to nicotine since using WTA, as a matter of fact, I happen to use less of it. Also, if we were all unable to buy our respective liquids, I don't think I would be any more hurt than a standard juice vaper.

I understand your apprehension and shared the same sentiments before actually trying it.

I'd kind of like to know about that myself...

Short of sending an email to the website or a pm to Jerry, I don't know.
 

Brobdingnagian

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I think that once Jerry knows how much he'll have available, that we'll be updated in some way, shape, or form. The concentrate is one of those things I'd like for blends such as Chocolate Chip Cookie, but heck, I don't mind a change of juices to a pre-blended WTA mix. Though, WTA in a cookie blend would be super-awesome. Does it come with instructions for use?

I mean, as an example, "Use 3-4 drops of concentrate for every 1 milliliter of e-liquid" or whatever. I wouldn't want to accidentally vape too strong or straight WTA, even though I develop a tolerance to nicotine and the minor alkaloids very quickly. I would also end up transferring any concentrate into glass dropper bottles, just because it's supposedly super-concentrated.
 

rothenbj

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If WTA's help anyone stay off analogs, and Nic only juices couldn't otherwise, that's great, but if a vendor I use started adding WTAs into all their juices, I'd switch vendors.

Ctor, I hate to tell you this, but you're already vaping 95% WTAs from whichever vendor you're using. Nicotine is the major alkaloid that comes naturally in whole tobacco. The other natural alkaloids make up only 5% of the WTAs.

You have the right idea though. If you don't need it to stay off smokes, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep on vaping.
 

AaronY

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Ctor, I hate to tell you this, but you're already vaping 95% WTAs from whichever vendor you're using. Nicotine is the major alkaloid that comes naturally in whole tobacco. The other natural alkaloids make up only 5% of the WTAs.

You have the right idea though. If you don't need it to stay off smokes, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep on vaping.

You are right. If you don't need it then congrats. For me it helps a lot.


AaronY www.EcigJuiceReview.com sent from my iPad
 

Brobdingnagian

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There's a lot I feel is missing after quitting analogs and starting vaping. My smoker's cough is missing. Constanly clearing my throat is missing. Wheezing while taking deep breaths is missing. The smell on my breath and clothes is missing. Feeling more tired all the time is missing. And having low general stamina is missing. And spending $7-$8 a pack of analogs is missing. And most of all, my wife nagging me about quitting analogs is missing. :)

Why would I want to introduce another addictive substance beyond nicotine into e-juice, with the possibility of FDA bans on nicotine juices looming on the horizon? One substance addiction is bad enough, why add a second that would make it even harder to stay off analogs if nic juice is banned?

If WTA's help anyone stay off analogs, and Nic only juices couldn't otherwise, that's great, but if a vendor I use started adding WTAs into all their juices, I'd switch vendors.

For me, it was more of a "Yeah, the PV/e-cig works, but going out to chain vape for 10 minutes is getting irritating and it isn't fulfilling- except in the nicotine headache department". At the time, I had to go outside to use my PV because my blends were stinking up the house. I looked and saw a post by DVAP about WTA. I was very interested- could this be the reason why the 'normal' blends I had weren't satisfying and I was vaping so much of them?

I discovered there were two vendors selling WTA. Jerry was selling out of his product amazingly fast, I kept poking around the site, stalked the thread announcing availability. Later on, another nicotine headache managed to get me a little concerned about my general health and well-being.

So I did a little research, and I found a review by AaronY on a WTA juice. I was impressed, not just because of the review itself, but more because of the subjective experience AaronY reported- being able to sit the PV down and avoid it for a while.

Once I read that, I decided to order some WTA from Ethan. I ended up receiving it shortly afterwards, with Trumpeter, Pear, and Oakwood in tow. After I tried the blends, I was able to actually view cigarettes as disgusting. Before, I could easily get stressed out and consider smoking one. My sleep became more regular, and I stopped getting down about everything and agitated. "Cigarettes are obsolete", were my exact words.

If anything, for me, WTA is less addictive than nicotine alone, but maybe that's because it's so long-acting? I don't know, but whatever the case, I have been buying WTA liquids to accompany my nicquids ever since (for about 2 months, all I vaped was WTA liquids)- I suppose it just feels "right", if that makes any sense.

The amount of vaping I do when I have zero WTA is at least 4-6 times higher than if I had WTA. For me, that makes WTA the more effective option, plus for me personally, my consumption of WTA juices slowed as I vaped more of them- it does take a little while to learn how your body responds to what.

Remember, nicotine used by itself is far less researched than the full-spectrum of alkaloids (WTA), but myself, having tried the patch, gum, and numerous things that do not have the minor alkaloids in conjunction with nicotine, they simply never worked for me- probably because the one thing missing was exactly what I didn't know wasn't in these at all.

My subjective experience and opinion on WTA is this: WTAs may very well be harm-reduction chemicals built-in to tobacco plants, in order to trigger self-moderation of nicotine consumption by increasing the efficacy of nicotine (though it could be argued this is the plant's mechanism to discourage animals from eating it). I can't say for certain, but I know that it makes me feel less anxious, less tense, my joints ache less than usual, and I'm more focused- all without having to puff on a cigarette to receive the same benefit.

The flavor difference is ever so slight, but the 'feel' is pronounced and most definitely adds something to the TH & mouth feel of the blends.

However, DVAP categorized the different groups of people who may or may not respond to WTA better than I could, and from all indications his assessment appears to correlate with subjective experiences being reported. That being said, if you don't need/miss it or it doesn't seem like something is amiss or lacking with your normal nicquids, you probably don't need it.

As an interesting side note, I was in GNC a few days ago, and noticed a supplement designed to help stave off inflammation (Anatabloc) for a large sum of money (somewhere between $75-100). I looked at it, one of the minor tobacco alkaloids (anatabine) was the main ingredient. The manufacturer says that it (the alkaloid) is apparently, "found in many peppers, eggplants and green tomatoes."

Since tomatoes, peppers, and tobacco are all related, it makes sense that they would share minor alkaloids. Does this mean that people who eat lots of hot sauce are ingesting extra anatabine? I mean, anatabine in capsaicin-containing peppers would make exactly as much sense as it being inside of tobacco- if it can affect nicotine, why shouldn't it potentiate or moderate the anti-inflammatory effects of capsaicin?
 
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AaronY

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If anything, for me, WTA is less addictive than nicotine alone, but maybe that's because it's so long-acting? I don't know, but whatever the case, I have been buying WTA liquids to accompany my nicquids ever since (for about 2 months, all I vaped was WTA liquids)- I suppose it just feels "right", if that makes any sense.

The amount of vaping I do when I have zero WTA is at least 4-6 times higher than if I had WTA. For me, that makes WTA the more effective option, plus for me personally, my consumption of WTA juices slowed as I vaped more of them- it does take a little while to learn how your body responds to what.

I do notice that with WTA the nicotine is more time release. Is there any science behind that fact? Not sure about the science question later in your post :p Just a happy consumer not a scientist. I am glad WTA works great for you.
 

bassthumper

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I have been using WTA most of the time as of late but I am fine without it. When I vaped standard juices, I kept my pv with me all the time and couldn't get enough! Now, I vape WTA in the morning and go to work...without my pv. Would I like to take a drag now? Sure. But, it isn't this hyper addictive substance that causes me withdrawal symptoms or anything close to that. What I crave is nicotine, and a similar effect of the calming experience of smoking. I don't have a heavier addiction to nicotine since using WTA, as a matter of fact, I happen to use less of it. Also, if we were all unable to buy our respective liquids, I don't think I would be any more hurt than a standard juice vaper.

I understand your apprehension and shared the same sentiments before actually trying it.



Short of sending an email to the website or a pm to Jerry, I don't know.

I don't have to use WTA to not "chain vape" and I think you'd find that you don't either if you simply give it a chance
Regular old e liquid works for THOUSANDS
 
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