WTA is the future

[kinabaloo]

That's funny! I had a similar EUREKA moment. After about 3 minutes into my 'test', I heard myself shout "DAMN!!!"

I didn't know exactly what my mouth was talking about, but as my brain and body began to SMILE, I realized THIS is what I was searching for.

In my first experience, a self-made but pretty pure WTA extract at ~5mg, I noticed next to mothing at first - no great taste or instant 'wow'; the effect was as you say like a smile (10 minutes or so at a guess), and no need to keep on vaping. Hard to describe - like the sound of one hand clapping - but 'calming/chilled' comes close.

It's like rather than give you something, it takes away - takes away any stressed out feeling, the craving, ... It's not a 'high'; it's an at ease ...

 

[MikenGA]

Sunday, I started the day with about 1.5ml of Ethan's HONEY FLUE CURED Tobacco (with WTA) in a fluxomizer. My impression of this flavor is it's a much lighter tobacco base than Oakwood, with a hint of honey sweetness. It's a very nice flavor - not heavy at all. And much like my first WTA experience on Saturday, I noticed that similar relaxation occurring during my 1st cup of morning coffee. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

For more than 3 decades I started my day with morning coffee and a cig...that was ME time. Although I have been analog free since September, that morning cup of coffee with 'nic only' vaping left something to be desired...until now. Sunday morn, I had my ritual coffee and 'vape'...and for the first time, I absolutely had NO desire for an analog to start my day...ZERO...NADA! I can't help but grin as I type this, because like Brobd... wrote above, it was like "the chains of analog addiction were falling off".

Saturday, using 3 Fluxomizers, I vaped about 3ml of 'nic only' ejuice, plus about 1.5ml of the OAKWOOD Tobacco with WTA. I slept easily last night.

Sunday, I again prepared 3 Fluxomizers to carry me through the day, but I started with HONEY FLUE CURED with WTA. Although I had my other 'nic only' flavors with me all day, I didn't use them more than a couple of times. As a result, even with a lower nic level, I vaped 3ml LESS than I was expecting, and felt good, ALL day!

Then I read the following:

The Maui Blend is, well, vapelicious! It's really tasty by itself and if you like a tobacco flavor, you may like a mix. I usually will fill a 1ml tank with 2/3 Maui and the rest with tobacco. That works for me but each of us is different.

rothenbj, when I was down to about .3ml of WTA ejuice, I read your idea of mixing 1/3 tobacco with 2/3 MAUI, so that's what I did. I opened and added about .6ml of the MAUI (WTA)...and WOWEE!! THAT is a very nice combo. THANK YOU!
I'm vapin' it as I type.

I'll try the Maui by itself another day, but I already know it's a winner 4me!

I never tried SNUS (or any other type of smokeless tobacco - other than vaping), but this WTA from Vapelicious appears to be the answer for me, PLUS these samples from Ethan seem to be the best juice flavors I've ever tasted. Most astounding of all, without effort or intent, on Sunday I vaped only 1/3 of my expected amount of ejuice (1.5ml, rather than 3 to 4mls), and felt more satisfied. It's been a good weekend!

Thanks again for 'the mix' suggestion!

 

[MikenGA]

kinabaloo, I enjoy reading your thoughts, and I strongly agree that "rate of change" seems to be an important quality for me. As you wrote, if the rate of change is so slow as to be unnoticed, I probably will miss the reward.

I began smoking analogs while in a state of heavy depression, and it was a noticeable "rate of change" in my outlook and feelings, that motivated me to continue smoking. Through the years, when I've attempted to stop smoking, the depression reappeared, and my doctor repeatedly suggested prescription tranquilizers. Not interested!
I seem very functional with a nic addiction; have no desire to drop one addiction for another.

In another week or two, I'd like to try laying off the PV for as long as necessary to feel myself 'begin to climb the walls', then try the WTA juice to see how quickly it settles me. 'Nic only' takes about 15 minutes before I can feel it begin to kick in, and another 10 to 15 minutes of chain vaping before I begin to feel settled. An analog kicks in within a couple of minutes, so I'm curious about the rate of change with WTA: My guess is it will be closer to that of an analog. Might be slower, but I would be extremely surprised if it takes anywhere near as long as 'nic only'.

It will be an interesting experiment for me. Do you know of anyone else who has conducted such a test using WTA? If so, I'd love to read about it.

 

[tierrataz]

kinabaloo, nice to see you contributing here!

My first WTA from Ethan was 18mg, high. I won't mention flavors as I'm uber picky and DIY 99% of my juice. I picked up on his post Vapercon sale some approx. 12mg Xhigh unflavored and that is the ticket for me. I don't think it's so much about nic levels for me. Done from 0-36mg with no discernible effect on satisfaction.

Brief history; Mom smoked during pregnancy w/me (1960), Alcoholism on maternal side 3 generations minimum. Both parents smoked during my childhood. I started at age 12 and did 2PAD for 38 years minus 3 years I quit in high school. I suspect I am genetically predisposed to addiction. I also suspect ADD in myself and other family members, though none is confirmed. I wonder if exposure to WTA is possible in vitro. If so, can it affect brain chemistry for life?

I switched to vaping fairly easily (11 months now) but as the months passed I started a downward spiral of depression. I could chain vape for 5-6 hours with no satisfaction, longer even. A racing heart which was my signal to put down the PV for awhile. At first I didn't recognize the feeling of being paralyzed mentally. It got to the point where I didn't care if I lived or died. Not suicidal at all, just complete mental apathy. It scared the beejeebus outta me as I have never been that type of person.

Enter Ethan's WTA. What a miracle! It's only been about a month but I have my life back!! I am back to sleeping well and my chronic OA (diagnosed 1984) pain has become manageable again! Not a surprise as I am sleeping again. I do not vape it all day, rather drip 2 drops several times throughout the day. Naysayers be darned! They don't have to live my life or be inside my head.

Kina....thoughts?

 

[stevejo]

kinabaloo, I enjoy reading your thoughts, and I strongly agree that "rate of change" seems to be an important quality for me. As you wrote, if the rate of change is so slow as to be unnoticed, I probably will miss the reward.

I began smoking analogs while in a state of heavy depression, and it was a noticeable "rate of change" in my outlook and feelings, that motivated me to continue smoking. Through the years, when I've attempted to stop smoking, the depression reappeared, and my doctor repeatedly suggested prescription tranquilizers. Not interested!
I seem very functional with a nic addiction; have no desire to drop one addiction for another.

In another week or two, I'd like to try laying off the PV for as long as necessary to feel myself 'begin to climb the walls', then try the WTA juice to see how quickly it settles me. 'Nic only' takes about 15 minutes before I can feel it begin to kick in, and another 10 to 15 minutes of chain vaping before I begin to feel settled. An analog kicks in within a couple of minutes, so I'm curious about the rate of change with WTA: My guess is it will be closer to that of an analog. Might be slower, but I would be extremely surprised if it takes anywhere near as long as 'nic only'.

It will be an interesting experiment for me. Do you know of anyone else who has conducted such a test using WTA? If so, I'd love to read about it.

I'd be very interested to see the results of this, Mike... my wife constantly struggles with vaping, falling back to analogs fairly consistently, because, as she states, it just doesn't give her the same feeling. Also the amount that she has to vape to get there irritates her throat (in any mix of PG/VG).

I've been watching this thread hopeful that WTA may be a step closer to the answer for her, as it will provide that feeling, and possibly the need to vape less.

Definately report back on this and let us know how it goes

 

[kinabaloo]

kinabaloo, nice to see you contributing here!

My first WTA from Ethan was 18mg, high. I won't mention flavors as I'm uber picky and DIY 99% of my juice. I picked up on his post Vapercon sale some approx. 12mg Xhigh unflavored and that is the ticket for me. I don't think it's so much about nic levels for me. Done from 0-36mg with no discernible effect on satisfaction.

Brief history; Mom smoked during pregnancy w/me (1960), Alcoholism on maternal side 3 generations minimum. Both parents smoked during my childhood. I started at age 12 and did 2PAD for 38 years minus 3 years I quit in high school. I suspect I am genetically predisposed to addiction. I also suspect ADD in myself and other family members, though none is confirmed. I wonder if exposure to WTA is possible in vitro. If so, can it affect brain chemistry for life?

I switched to vaping fairly easily (11 months now) but as the months passed I started a downward spiral of depression. I could chain vape for 5-6 hours with no satisfaction, longer even. A racing heart which was my signal to put down the PV for awhile. At first I didn't recognize the feeling of being paralyzed mentally. It got to the point where I didn't care if I lived or died. Not suicidal at all, just complete mental apathy. It scared the beejeebus outta me as I have never been that type of person.

Enter Ethan's WTA. What a miracle! It's only been about a month but I have my life back!! I am back to sleeping well and my chronic OA (diagnosed 1984) pain has become manageable again! Not a surprise as I am sleeping again. I do not vape it all day, rather drip 2 drops several times throughout the day. Naysayers be darned! They don't have to live my life or be inside my head.

Kina....thoughts?

It's really good to hear the experiences and that they are so positive.

It appears that the chain vaping nicotine-only till buzzed out is fairly common, and obviously not a good thing. Either the rate of change of x (x being a result of nicotine rather than nic itself) is key to satiation or that x depends not only on nicotine.

Variablity in individual biochemistry is certainly partly controlled by genetics (and epigenetics), so offspring are likely to share traits. Most genetic influence is complex, not the one gene on/off type, and the result is a spectrum.

While the brain is developing, particularly in the womb and the first years, but up to ~20 to a lesser extent, the settings for 'normal balance' and so on are fixed so it is most likely that early exposure will have an impact.

Clearly there are people who do well on just nic and many of them can wean of the nic quite easily too. But there are many others too for which nic-only is at best a partial replacement; and even some for whom the nic will trigger even greater cravings.

+++

Additional thought: just maybe, long term use of nicotine-only might not be good in some way for some people, even if that is only a decline in it's effects when its use is of the slow absorption type (both through delivery method and, most of all, through absence of the MAOIs). This is just a possibility, but I'm thinking of reports where people who have vaped nic-only for many months, or even a year plus, feel it lose effect (my words).

All the toxic stuff aside, smoking 'worked' and it is therefore sensible to duplicate that in a safer alternative (vaping) than to fiddle with it and provide only part. There just might be unintended consequences beyond lowered effectivesness.

 

[cigarbabe]

I think you'll like your selections. The Oakwood is good; well-rounded and tasty, expansive in flavor and has a smooth, oaky finish.

I plan on ordering some of the Maui next time, along with several other blends.

I just snagged a couple of blends that Ethan was offering after vapercon:

Raspberry Lemon 24mg /X-High WTA

Blueberry Coffee 24mg /X-High WTA

I have to say, I haven't had a bad blend from Ethan yet.

These are a little bit higher than my usuals, I find that 18mg works just fine with X-high WTA in most instances, but I'm vaping less. Going to test this further and see if 24mg is what I'm looking for in a blend.

The raspberry lemon has a familiar taste to me, like something I'd get off the ice-cream truck when I was a kid. Very tasty, but balanced. Not too lemony, not too much raspberry, and not too sweet. This one is quite addictive in taste and has a good throat hit.

The blueberry, I'll let steep and taste within the next few days. Maybe I'll have to break it out and have some with my morning coffee.... who am I kidding, I'm drinking coffee now!

I'm happy that you like the raspberry lemon that was a special request from me and it is so very tasty!
C.B.

 

[Katya]

Very interesting discussion, indeed. Thank you all for sharing your experiences with WTA eliquids.

To your knowledge, what is the difference, if any, between Jerry's and Ethan's WTA ejuices? Has anyone tried both?

 

[5cardstud]

Well I suppose if people are going to continue to smoke while vaping it would be okay but my reason for vaping was to get away from smoking which I did with eliquid. My doctors all give me favorable results since i quit smoking and went 100% vaping some 22 mo. ago. The ony problem I have is this quote from your site.

Basically, our WTA e-juice is like any other liquid but with the added alkaloids for greater satisfaction similar to other tobacco products. The downside is the potential to be more addictive and dangerous, but for those who are choosing to continue to use conventional tobacco plus vaping, this is an alternative.

I am however always looking for better things so keep up the research.

 

[MikenGA]

...what is the difference, if any, between Jerry's and Ethan's WTA ejuices? Has anyone tried both?

I was wondering that myself.

I haven't tried both because only ONE was available (Ethan's), so I have nothing to compare. Other than that, it looks like Jerry's cost more, but I don't have an opinion whether that's good or bad. When he gets up and running with a supply (instead of waiting list), I would certainly consider trying a sample.

WTA aside, I'm really impressed with the flavors from Vapelicious, and you can get it with or without WTA. I also liked how Ethan interviewed me by phone, to determine 'best mix' for my palate. According to my tongue, the guy is a 'Juice Artist'!

BTW - just tracking my day, I've only vaped about .4 ml of juice in the last 9 hours; that's waaaaay down. I'm not trying to cut back...that's just how it's happening. Probably will pick up the pace later tonight, with a bit or AVE Massive Chocolate Mint (24mg/VG) after dinner, and a side of Vapelicious Maui Blend (18mg with WTA) before bed. We'll see...

 

[MikenGA]

...my reason for vaping was to get away from smoking which I did with eliquid.

That's excellent! Looks like you're doing extremely well, too! Hope I can have as good a success as you this time!

I started vaping for the same reason you did - to get away from smoking - but it didn't happen for me as easily, and I think one reason was the hardware (Joye 510) wasn't powerful enough, plus my nic level was probably too low. Upgrading to an Ego-T in September made a huge difference for me, but 'the demon' lurking in the shadows reappeared after about 4 weeks. That's when I started looking for something else, to help keep me on track.

Since trying my first round of WTA on Saturday, 'the demon' has retreated (or disappeared?)!

Keeping my hopes high this time...

 

[rothenbj]

"I posed the question of steeping to Ethan, and he responded that "fresh juice" will benefit by steeping for a week or more. OK, maybe I'll steep it a bit, but I'm very pleased with the taste straight out of the mailbox! "

I got the same message from Ethan on the Pear. I liked it but not as much as some others. I'm shelving it for a few weeks and giving it a second shot. I loved the Maui Blend right out of delivery.

*added* Hey Mike, it looks like I found someone with the same taste.

 

[Geezy]

WTA -- As I understand it, these are alkaloids processed out of tobacco but not present when using pure nicotine. I am just a dumb newbie, but I wonder what I would get if I just double-boiled some good tobacco in PG? Why wouldnt that extract the entire contents of the tobacco? I am no chemist or anything, but now I am curious to try.

 

[MikenGA]

Geezy, I have no idea. I imagine the taste would be similar to sucking on a wet analog. Plus, you might extract the extra chemicals BIG TOBACCO puts in...as well as the carpet glue used to hold shredded tobacco together.

I'm only guessing. I bet kinabaloo will have a better response for ya.

 

[MikenGA]

...I got the same message from Ethan on the Pear. I liked it but not as much as some others. I'm shelving it for a few weeks and giving it a second shot. I loved the Maui Blend right out of delivery.

Good to know, because I've got some Pear coming!

After reading of the various flavors y'all are liking, I called Ethan last night and ordered 8 more bottles o juice:
Lemon Raspberry 18mg; xtra high wta
Pear 18mg; xtra high wta
Banana Chocolate 24mg; xtra high wta (Vapercon sale)
Rezurection Tea 18mg; xtra high wta
Turkish Apricot 18mg; xtra high wta (fresh is best)
Backwoods Burley 18mg; xtra high wta
ry4 classic 18mg; xtra high wta
+???? (mystery juice - Ethan's choice for me; whatever he thinks I might enjoy)

He specifically told me that most of my selections will benefit from steeping for awhile, except for the Turkish Apricot - the fresher, the better.

Out of the 5 flavors I've tried, Oakwood is certainly the most pungent, but I continue to like it. My fav so far is probably the Honey Flue Cured - and it's GREAT mixed with Maui Blend - but ALL are surprisingly tasty.

Cigarbabe, I'm looking forward to trying that Raspberry Lemon! Since it was YOUR idea, I'll let you know how it strikes me.

 

[phatglass]

I have had a everpresent cloud of vapor around my head for 7 months, and not a single analog. I extract my own juice from a natural additive free tobacco, and I am as happy as I can be with it.....who knows I might be getting some WTA with that, but I wont be spending the enormous amount of money I have seen it sold for. I Don't want an analog anymore if I have PV issues I want my vape, it satisfies me just fine.
Mike

 

[rothenbj]

Very interesting discussion, indeed. Thank you all for sharing your experiences with WTA eliquids.

To your knowledge, what is the difference, if any, between Jerry's and Ethan's WTA ejuices? Has anyone tried both?

I'd love to try Jerry's, but until it's more reasonable and more available I'll stick with Ethan's. I've actually rather enjoyed the flavors that Ethan creates, beside just the WTA. He's done a great job coming up with some great formulas in my mind.

 

[kinabaloo]

edited post

On balance decided not to give the details of home WTA extraction, even though it is safe and fairly easy.

Just note this though: I don't recommend the simple tobacco soak as it's too impure but if one does it anyway, water is a better bet than VG for avoiding more of the toxins.

 

[Katya]

I'd love to try Jerry's, but until it's more reasonable and more available I'll stick with Ethan's. I've actually rather enjoyed the flavors that Ethan creates, beside just the WTA. He's done a great job coming up with some great formulas in my mind.

Thanks, Rothenbj and Miken.

 

[MikeE3]

And this process description is exactly why I'm quite willing and satisfied to pay Ethan for his fine tasting blends w/ WTA.

A simple tobacco soak in ....