WTA is the future

[AaronY]

Thanks. I was afraid of that. DK-TAB is very strong and peanutty, no matter who makes it.



I might just go for that. But I'm curious about that tropical delight everyone raves about... What's the name of that flavor? Maui blend!!!!

Here are some reviews I did of WTA juice
Turkish Apricot with Extra High WTA
Maui Blend Extra High WTA
Pear High WTA
I highly recommend Maui blend. Think it is one of the best juices I have ever tried.
AaronY

 

[ScottinSoCal]

The use of just-nicotine could lead to complications with high blood pressure, and psychological issues

I don't have a dog in this hunt - I only stopped in here to find out what WTA was and why it's "the future", but are you seriously trying to sell that vaping without WTA is going to drive me crazy? Because that's the most hysterical, fear-mongering line I've seen in this thread to date.

 

[kinabaloo]

Use of nicotine by itself is untested long-term.

The title is a little misleading; the point is that it was in the context of WTA that nicotine was imbibed for decades.

Note I said 'could' and have explained the rationale in earlier posts. In brief, without the range of alkaloids present the effects will be different, much more on the stimulating side and with a preponderance of dopamine over serotonin; and for many with a lack of satiation which suggests that biochemical baselines may drift over time.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Use of nicotine by itself is untested long-term.

Note I said 'could'

Of course.

I read an article by someone who said listening to MP3s 'could' cause deafness to certain frequencies, because the compression of the soundwave supressed those frequencies in MP3s. He had a long, technical rationale for it. He was also a total wackjob and knew absolutely nothing about the human brain, but hey, he had a rationale.

 

[kinabaloo]

That's why I said 'could'.

WTA is not a new thing; nicotine used on its own is the new thing.

You're obviously one of the lucky ones, but for many nicotine alone does not work out. That much is fact.

 

[Katya]

That's why I said 'could'.

WTA is not a new thing; nicotine used on its own is the new thing.

You're obviously one of the lucky ones, but for many nicotine alone does not work out. That much is fact.

In all fairness, Kinabaloo, those new WTA eliquids are also an experiment. They don't exactly replicate what we're getting from a tobacco leaf....

And nicotine patches and gums have been in use for quite a long time. Not very effective, true, but not all that dangerous, either....

 

[tierrataz]

Scott you are one of the lucky ones, based on your join date. That is wonderful!

I am not. The depression is very real for some of us. I think that is what Kina was partially referencing.

 

[kinabaloo]

In all fairness, Kinabaloo, those new WTA eliquids are also an experiment. They don't exactly replicate what we're getting from a tobacco leaf....

And nicotine patches and gums have been in use for quite a long time. Not very effective, true, but not all that dangerous, either....

As an extract of the bio-active compounds in tobacco, WTA will come very close, even if not quite an 'exact match'; certainly much closer than nicotine-only.

 

[Katya]

As an extract of the bio-active compounds in tobacco, WTA will come very close, even if not quite an 'exact match'; certainly much closer than nicotine-only.

Oh, I'm sure they do. I can't survive on nic alone. Others can. Some even go to zero nic without a problem and just enjoy the good old hand-to-mouth pleasures.

But the only thing really tested, long-time, is snus. Snus has been around for over 200 years in Sweden and has been studied extensively. Everything else is still experimental.

That said, nicotine-alone use has a much longer track record than WTA eliquids. That's all.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

I am not. The depression is very real for some of us. I think that is what Kina was partially referencing.

I'm not saying it isn't - lots of people have depression and the effects of smoking on mood have been known for a good long while now. I don't object at all to that, and I'm happy this seems to be working for people. I do object to spreading totally unsubstantiated FUD disguised as concern.

 

[kinabaloo]

Oh, I'm sure they do. I can't survive on nic alone. Others can. Some even go to zero nic without a problem and just enjoy the good old hand-to-mouth pleasures.

But the only thing really tested, long-time, is snus. Snus has been around for over 200 years in Sweden and has been studied extensively. Everything else is still experimental.

That said, nicotine-alone use has a much longer track record than WTA eliquids. That's all.

WTA use has a much longer track record than nicotine-only. Think of WTA as a vaping version of snus. The only difference is (no leaf solids and) the PG/VG, which if anything will be inhaled less with WTA use as it achieves a satiation that for many nic-only does not. That's all.

WTA could be extracted from snus just as well. Then you'd have to agree it could be no worse than snus, or else quite what are you saying?

 

[kinabaloo]

I'm not saying it isn't - lots of people have depression and the effects of smoking on mood have been known for a good long while now. I don't object at all to that, and I'm happy this seems to be working for people. I do object to spreading totally unsubstantiated FUD disguised as concern.

WTA has a very similar profile to smoking, nicotine used alone does not so it cannot borrow its track record to the extent that WTA can. No FUD, just logic.

When 3/4 of smokers are still in need of an alternative that will work, and there is a way to reach many of them by avoiding the 'smoking is just nicotine' folly, that's concern; not deriding what you don't understand.

 

[kinabaloo]

A similar situation has occurred many times with regard to traditional therapies based on things like herbs. BP comes along and says that compound A is the key, but it doesn't work nearly so well, and often the side-efects are worse.

 

[Katya]

WTA use has a much longer track record than nicotine-only. Think of WTA as a vaping version of snus. The only difference is (no leaf solids and) the PG/VG, which if anything will be inhaled less with WTA use as it achieves a satiation that for many nic-only does not. That's all.

WTA could be extracted from snus just as well. Then you'd have to agree it could be no worse than snus, or else quite what are you saying?

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. WTA is not the same thing as WTA eliquid. WTA eliquids are man-made; the alkaloids are extracted from the leaf and then added to PG/VG base. ATM, we have no proof that the final product mirrors the alkaloid composition in tobacco. That's all I'm trying to say. Very little is known about the WTA liquids' efficacy or long-term safety.

Nicotine alone has been used for quite some time. I'm not arguing that it's effective as a smoking cessation product--I'm arguing that it is, AFAIK, somewhat safe.

I don't think we're disagreeing....

 

[ScottinSoCal]

WTA has a very similar profile to smoking, nicotine used alone does not so it cannot borrow its track record to the extent that WTA can. No FUD, just logic.

There's a big gulf - about the size of the Atlantic - between saying WTA might help a little with mood stabilization in a minority of the population and saying that vaping nicotine-only juice will cause psychological problems. The first is no FUD, just logic. The second is no logic, just FUD.

 

[rothenbj]

This discussion exposes the basic myth of smoking and giving people a method to stop, when they desire to. Everyone thinks they have the ultimate answer and, in truth, no one does and there isn't one. The pharma industry has a new, next best stop smoking drug every few years, all proving to vary in effectiveness or safety. CT still supposed to be the most effect although awfully ineffective. Hypnosis works on occasion, herbal remedies hardly ever work. Then along comes the E Cig and nicquid, followed by WTA.

Certainly there is a lot to be said for E cigs, just in dealing with the hand to mouth ritual. Then we get down to the chemical aspects, not only product chemistry, but human chemistry and that varies tremendously. I can tell you what worked for me, but I cannot tell anyone what will work for them.I don't even think I could tell a confirmed, long time smoker such as I was what would work for them. Heck I thought it was another stupid stop smoking scam when I got talked into buying one. However over two years later I no longer smoke. It took a bit of experimenting and retrospective self examination, but I got there, rather painlessly.

Debating the perfect solution won't get anyone there, personal discovery will. Now where is my snus can and WTA?

 

[Katya]

Now where is my snus can and WTA?

........

 

[kinabaloo]

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. WTA is not the same thing as WTA eliquid. WTA eliquids are man-made; the alkaloids are extracted from the leaf and then added to PG/VG base. ATM, we have no proof that the final product mirrors the alkaloid composition in tobacco. That's all I'm trying to say. Very little is known about the WTA liquids' efficacy or long-term safety.

Nicotine alone has been used for quite some time. I'm not arguing that it's effective as a smoking cessation product--I'm arguing that it is, AFAIK, somewhat safe.

I don't think we're disagreeing....

No, it would mirror the tobacco content almost exactly. The profile in the vapor would mirror that very closely too. Where you would have a point is that te alkaloid profile in smoke may differ. But it's not going to differ that much. Hence, it is perfectly reasonable to say that WTA e-liquid mirrors closely WTA from smoking; even more so snus. That's why it is also reasonable to say that WTA e-liquid embodies the legacy of decades of use; this is something nicotine alone cannot claim.

I know we'e not too far apart; but i see this as a crtical point - WTA is not the new thing - it is the alkaloid mix that has decades of use behind it.

 

[kinabaloo]

This discussion exposes the basic myth of smoking and giving people a method to stop, when they desire to. Everyone thinks they have the ultimate answer and, in truth, no one does and there isn't one. The pharma industry has a new, next best stop smoking drug every few years, all proving to vary in effectiveness or safety. CT still supposed to be the most effect although awfully ineffective. Hypnosis works on occasion, herbal remedies hardly ever work. Then along comes the E Cig and nicquid, followed by WTA.

Certainly there is a lot to be said for E cigs, just in dealing with the hand to mouth ritual. Then we get down to the chemical aspects, not only product chemistry, but human chemistry and that varies tremendously. I can tell you what worked for me, but I cannot tell anyone what will work for them.I don't even think I could tell a confirmed, long time smoker such as I was what would work for them. Heck I thought it was another stupid stop smoking scam when I got talked into buying one. However over two years later I no longer smoke. It took a bit of experimenting and retrospective self examination, but I got there, rather painlessly.

Debating the perfect solution won't get anyone there, personal discovery will. Now where is my snus can and WTA?

Agreed. Nicotine alone does work for some (a minority though). WTA liquid combines the effectiveness of snus with the rituals of smoking. But absolutely to each his own.

Which is why I counter suggestions that WTA is some new untested thing to be afraid of - that's just not so.

I'm not being gung-ho in this; I have concerns about PG and VG; about flavorings; about filler burning and various non-vapable additives that ash on the heater coil. Safety is my chief concern. And there is a very good case for WTA being safer. If there is doubt it with the PG/VG and flavorings etc (common to any e-liquid).

The other alkaloids in nicotine consitute just 5% of the alkaloid total and with no strong evidence that at the dosages we are talking about that any might be more harmful than nicotine. And yet the combination can bring an effective alternative to far more people. I can understand people having questions but some are creating a concern/doubt that is way out of proportion.

Safety concern would rightly focus on long-term inhalation of VG / PG and favorings; that's where there is uncertainty. Which is why I advise not to lung inhale; particularly as it is neither necessary for alkaloid absorption or enjoyment, once one is used to the new way.

 

[kinabaloo]

This discussion exposes the basic myth of smoking and giving people a method to stop, when they desire to. Everyone thinks they have the ultimate answer and, in truth, no one does and there isn't one.

I have to disagree. It is the alkaloids that are the bioactive part of smoking. If t were something about the combustion then snus would not work. It is well known science that the alkaloids are the key. The mistake was focusing on just one of them because it was the most preponderous and 'well-known'. Utterly stupid. How the alkaloids work together is not totally understood (and it doesn't need to be) - but it is fairly well understood.

WTA liquid is as close as one can get to the essence of what people got from smoking, minus all the crap.