WTA is the future
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Not much earlier in the thread CigarBabe said Allusion is carring WTA. I emailed them a while ago. They said August this year. So I just had it in the back of my mind. I might be totally wrong. I need to contract them again. I don't want to create rummors. Just was thinking about that. Will tell you when I hear more. KingCobra I agree. It might be true or it might not. I will email them soon and will tell you more.
I think the more competition the better it is for the consumer of WTA. I think it might be good for the producers too. Anyways it was months ago and I need to contact them again but that is what I heard from a vaper that I trust and I think the company.
Ahlusion emailed me and said studies were unable to determine added benefits or affects of WTA to warrant production. Oh well, back to our regularly scheduled vendor(s). Thank goodness I have a vendor that that takes care of me. I wish it were more, but I am happy I have readily access to what I have!!!!
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Mr. Mann you are replying to your own posts and laughing, that must be good stuff you're vaping
Apparently this isn't a business because businesses generally produce goods to satisfy demand
More vendors are better but we only want ones with half a brain
Apparently this isn't a business because businesses generally produce goods to satisfy demand
More vendors are better but we only want ones with half a brain
Mr. Mann you are replying to your own posts and laughing, that must be good stuff you're vaping
Apparently this isn't a business because businesses generally produce goods to satisfy demand
More vendors are better but we only want ones with half a brain
I was waiting on that one.
Heathers Heavenly Vapes amped up with a little bit of the (shhh). I know what you mean about the business part. I mean seriously? I always thought there was a disclaimer on ALL of this stuff that it was NOT evaluated by the FDA or designed to help prevent, cure or treat any disease...maybe I am missing something?
But when oh when oh when will he/they take care of you/us to the extent of selling unflavored WTA concentrate?
Ummm...July has a 32nd? Did I forget to put up my Stonehenge pagan lunar calendar?
Can anyone the tell me what the difference is between whole tobacco alkaloids and tobacco absolutes.
I don't know when, but I can think of many reasons why WTA concentrate might not be available in quantity at this time.
The most obvious: The profit margin may not be enough to invest the amount of resources necessary to supply a hoard of customers hankering to add it to their favorite vendor's juice or their DIY. That demand would surely be much higher than those who are satisfied with the two vendors' stock offerings. Conversations with Jerry have made clear to me that producing WTA is expensive both in terms of equipment and labor. Turning the corner to full-scale WTA production for the world might not be feasible until such a time when either those costs come down or a decision is made to make the capital expenditure/labor investment necessary.
The strange reception WTA has gotten would make me quite leery of making such an investment in something which might be a flash in the pan. Surely you wouldn't expect the vendors to put their family's financial futures on the line simply because they "cared" about us? I've read your posts where it implies you believe the FDA will put the hammer down and WTA could be the first thing they aim for. Wouldn't that make you nervous?
Nice post Snork.
FYI, for anyone wondering, the whole Ahlusion thing was not hearsay. This here is taken from Ahlusion's site about WTA. This is null and void now, but it wasn't a rumor.
FYI, for anyone wondering, the whole Ahlusion thing was not hearsay. This here is taken from Ahlusion's site about WTA. This is null and void now, but it wasn't a rumor.
The FDA probably has never heard of WTA, and I seriously doubt that they care either, given that it is only a miniscule part of the overall business. There's nothing particularly offensive with it from a regulation standpoint either, as it is still a tobacco extraction, only the process is a little different. These people object to nicotine juice enough. I think that some vapers think that this is some sort of Frankenstein concoction and then project their unreasoned fears on the government as well.
So I went to this site and they are saying that they won't sell it until they "have enough data to support it as a safe and viable addition." This is kind of funny as it's not an addition, they are removing it now as this is already a constituent of tobacco. I think that this is something a lot of people get confused about. What's evil about tobacco is due to burning it and inhaling the fumes. So that's something I've done for several decades and I don't need data to tell me I am far better off.
Shortly after I quit smoking I looked into both Swedish Snus and WTA. My intent wasn't to find which is highest in safety as I knew both were much, much safer than smoking, something that no one would dispute. Now as far as I'm concerned there's already more than enough science supporting Swedish Snus, which we know is a tobacco product that contains nicotine and minor alkaloids along with whatever else and has been shown to be pretty benign. WTA only contains nicotine and minor alkaloids. So by a simple inference we can assume with a high degree of confidence that WTA is at least as safe as Swedish snus.
So I ended up going with WTA mostly because I like to vape instead of using oral tobacco. Snus has removed certain constituents that regular smokeless tobacco contains which is the reason for its much higher safety profile. WTA isn't one of them. I cannot think of a good reason why anyone would be concerned about WTA, and we'd really need long term human studies like they have with Swedish snus to have the same level of confidence.
I can't imagine any need for it though, but of course there will be people that insist on it. We don't have any such studies for vaping regular juice though which is more than just nicotine as we know. All vapers are relying on reasoned judgement to determine that there is some big time harm reduction in vaping versus smoking, and vaping WTA isn't really fundamentally different.
Of course we all need to make up our own minds about whether or not we want to use something like WTA or not, however we need to try to use the same quality of thinking that we used to get turned on to vaping in the first place, and if we do that, and be guided by reason instead of unbased fear, then we are free to judge each product by their own merits, as we need to.
So I went to this site and they are saying that they won't sell it until they "have enough data to support it as a safe and viable addition." This is kind of funny as it's not an addition, they are removing it now as this is already a constituent of tobacco. I think that this is something a lot of people get confused about. What's evil about tobacco is due to burning it and inhaling the fumes. So that's something I've done for several decades and I don't need data to tell me I am far better off.
Shortly after I quit smoking I looked into both Swedish Snus and WTA. My intent wasn't to find which is highest in safety as I knew both were much, much safer than smoking, something that no one would dispute. Now as far as I'm concerned there's already more than enough science supporting Swedish Snus, which we know is a tobacco product that contains nicotine and minor alkaloids along with whatever else and has been shown to be pretty benign. WTA only contains nicotine and minor alkaloids. So by a simple inference we can assume with a high degree of confidence that WTA is at least as safe as Swedish snus.
So I ended up going with WTA mostly because I like to vape instead of using oral tobacco. Snus has removed certain constituents that regular smokeless tobacco contains which is the reason for its much higher safety profile. WTA isn't one of them. I cannot think of a good reason why anyone would be concerned about WTA, and we'd really need long term human studies like they have with Swedish snus to have the same level of confidence.
I can't imagine any need for it though, but of course there will be people that insist on it. We don't have any such studies for vaping regular juice though which is more than just nicotine as we know. All vapers are relying on reasoned judgement to determine that there is some big time harm reduction in vaping versus smoking, and vaping WTA isn't really fundamentally different.
Of course we all need to make up our own minds about whether or not we want to use something like WTA or not, however we need to try to use the same quality of thinking that we used to get turned on to vaping in the first place, and if we do that, and be guided by reason instead of unbased fear, then we are free to judge each product by their own merits, as we need to.
From talking to Jerry about this, it seems to me that he isn't charging enough for it to make enough of a profit, but at the same time he is reluctant to do so. As he says, it's already $12 for 4 ounces, but you really can't compare this to the pricing of anything else.
Presumably, it would be worth us paying more for it to turn our own non-WTA juice to WTA form, and in fact from what people who have used it are saying, it's more economical, and probably would still be if the price were increased to where they could make the same profit margin on it per time invested.
There's also the potential for the fact that if it is cheaper to add the desirable amount of WTA, other vendors may buy it up and then compete with them, maybe even undercut them. This would only be possible though if there were a significant difference between the price per WTA unit with the DIY variety.
Raising the price of the DIY concentrate would seem to be the solution to everything though, and while Jerry isn't telling anyone his plans here, my guess is that he will come to realize this at some point and put himself in a position where he can ramp up the production on this. The demand is high, the supply is low, and the economic forces will probably have their say at some point as we look to move toward more equilibrium.
I was waiting on that one.
This comment reminds me of the fisherman who won't tell where he caught his fish so no one else will steal his spot.
Tobacco absolute is a flavoring. In other words, it is looking to get a more tobacco tasting flavor out of the tobacco plant. WTA involves the intentional extraction of other alkaloids besides nicotine. It is not a matter of soaking or boiling the tobacco or whatever, it involves a chemical process in the lab.
So in one case you are looking for a more genuine tobacco flavor, and in the other case you are adding tasteless elements extracted from tobacco.
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This comment reminds me of the fisherman who won't tell where he caught his fish so no one else will steal his spot.
Hardy har har.
I was feeling very playful last night as I got incredible news that transformed my life! I was referring to some stuff (LOL) that I had from a while back, but I didn't want to create any unnecessary buzz about something that wasn't currently available.- Status
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