YOUDE nailed it! Coil winding jig Version 3

[whosrandy]

I own a lot of vaping hardware, insane amounts of DIY flavoring, kanthal, batteries, etc. However, this is my favorite purchase to date.

I kept my eyes on the Kuro winders as they were introduced. Authentic seemed a bit steep for decent quality and clones were iffy. Finally this stainless steel refined beauty with the kinks worked out emerged.

All I can say is WOW: I will never hand wrap another coil again. I am by no means an amateur coil builder, having done fused claptons, zippers, etc. However, I have gone back to the similar ways and this beauty is irreplaceable in my tool kit.

Let's get to some images...





PERFECT SCREW SIZE / SHAPE



EXAMPLE 1: 30g kanthal @ 2mm ID

NOTE: I have NEVER used 30g before on it's own. This is my first time wrapping a coil with it, let alone my first time using it with a jig. My first wrap was a bit off but it was very easy to learn from there.









Example #2: How about a big boy? 22G A1 Kanthal @ 3.5mm!



22G vs 30G!




Example #3: 26G a1 kanthal @ 2.5mm ID



Example #4: 28g a1 kanthal @ 2mm ID
NOTE: Wonky old coil that I've used, inserted and removed from an rda. Old and nasty but still looks great!

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[Sirius]

Love my #2 Kuro... I got just to see what all the fuss was about. I want the full kit now and will get one soon.

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk

 

[edyle]

off topic, but why does the 22 awg roll have a 'born on' date?

 

[Katya]

Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step. | E-Cigarette Forum

"Don't be confused by these new devices where a "jig" of sorts forms the wire around a rod by turning an attachment that grabs the wire and forms it around a rod. Yes, it does produce a pretty coil, but we theorize that is "visually perfecting an imperfect coil."

I don't wish to start a fight--but I would love to see a discussion about formed vs tensioned coils.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I do own several gizmos making tensioned coils, including Cigamatron's Cigamajig, pin vise and Artistic Wire coil winder. I also own and use a Kuro (a 1:1 Tobeco clone with removable rod).

So, are tensioned coils really superior to perfectly formed (without tension) coils? Anyone?

 

[Boden]

Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step. | E-Cigarette Forum

"Don't be confused by these new devices where a "jig" of sorts forms the wire around a rod by turning an attachment that grabs the wire and forms it around a rod. Yes, it does produce a pretty coil, but we theorize that is "visually perfecting an imperfect coil."

I don't wish to start a fight--but I would love to see a discussion about formed vs tensioned coils.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I do own several gizmos making tensioned coils, including Cigamatron's Cigamajig, pin vise and Artistic Wire coil winder. I also own and use a Kuro (a 1:1 Tobeco clone with removable rod).

So, are tensioned coils really superior to perfectly formed (without tension) coils? Anyone?

If there is a difference it's trivial.

 

[Katya]

If there is a difference it's trivial.

Can you elaborate? That thread I linked is quite interesting and informative.

 

[Boden]

Can you elaborate? That thread I linked is quite interesting and informative.

I'll have a look at that thread and report back

 

[Rule62]

I've made both, tensioned and formed, and have found absolutely no difference in performance. These days, I use nothing but the Coil Master.

 

[Boden]

Can you elaborate? That thread I linked is quite interesting and informative.

After reading the first couple of pages I can say their understanding of thermodynamics and hydrodynamics is somewhat lacking. The closer coils are spaced you will increase thermal efficiency within the metal but not thermal transfer to the wick. There seems to be a bit of religious fervor occurring. I will read more of this thread as it seems to be quite amusing but I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

 

[Katya]

After reading the first couple of pages I can say their understanding of thermodynamics and hydrodynamics is somewhat lacking. The closer coils are spaced you will increase thermal efficiency within the metal but not thermal transfer to the wick. There seems to be a bit of religious fervor occurring. I will read more of this thread as it seems to be quite amusing but I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

Hmmm... Here's what Mac has to say on the subject:

All close touching or contact coils exhibit shorting behavior. The reason is that electrons are finding a way to bypass the expected circuit path.This is resolved when adequate alumina insulation develops. It happens quickly and uniformly with a tensioned micro coil. That is when you have a proper complete circuit in electrical terms.


What do coilers bring to the table electrically?

Coilers do not impart strain. They don't result in a workable micro as is. Even as they may seem tight as you wind, the small extent of force applied is not enough to cause sufficient strain internally in the wire to impact it's shape. Rotation did. That is forming. Formed coils will relax from the original diameter (in all directions) and it is difficult to predict whether this will be tight, loose or congruent and will vary with each wire gauge and wind.

Then there's the matter of contact. Any contact touching or close may be sufficient to cause shorts. What will you do? Anneal and repeatedly compress? Torch? The first won't address differences in wind diameter or any inconsistencies turn to turn. And pulse annealing may take considerable time if you pulse without adhesion. Torching will carbonize the surface contributing to accelerated carbonized accretion and further increases in resistance. Carbonized depositions of soot or caramelized solids are thermally non-conductive and electrically conductive. Worst of both worlds. Now you have a foundation.

Some nice options there.

Or you could just wind a tensioned contact coil. The proximity assumed by the consistent strain force applied will aid rapid oxidation and you're done in a few minutes. Chances good that you'll go full micro in just a few pulses and you're off to your vape.

Seems like a plan to me.

Good luck.




View attachment 455312

What do alternatives bring to the table?

Benefits of tension winding Kanthal based vaporizing elements to adhesion for uniform oxidation

I would love for something as intrinsically elegant as a coil winder to produce enough strain. Alas, the physics aren't there. And there's far more to those physics beyond properly completing the circuit with oxidation that makes a contact coil explode with vapor production. It's the geometry which creates a perfect compressible concentrated thermal environment for the wick. And another important aspect of physics...internal expansion pressures beneath the even surface deflection of a t.m.c. and the wick. Therefore, rapid drops in evaporation temperature! Not to mention the excellent thermal conductivity of alumina, its high resistance to heat corrosion (considerably more than the wire itself) and that it (ceramic) so perfectly isolates the product from the underling metals. It's an ideal complement to existing, potential equally neutral and beneficial ceramic wicking options. Did I mention neutral taste when oxidized? No, too many factors to sacrifice and too much work to make up working from a lesser starting point.

Of course we experienced tension winders know how the precise parameters of a t.m.c. makes the performance of ordinary cotton and rayon utterly controllable and predictable.

I am baffled at the number here on ECF extolling alternatives where the science is just the opposite! I am truly saddened by this reality but not one bit that I have made the effort here along with so many of you. Thank you. Thank you all.

Wish you all the greatest of luck and that many more join us setting this important baseline for others.

We need them!

 

[Sirius]

Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step. | E-Cigarette Forum

"Don't be confused by these new devices where a "jig" of sorts forms the wire around a rod by turning an attachment that grabs the wire and forms it around a rod. Yes, it does produce a pretty coil, but we theorize that is "visually perfecting an imperfect coil."

I don't wish to start a fight--but I would love to see a discussion about formed vs tensioned coils.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I do own several gizmos making tensioned coils, including Cigamatron's Cigamajig, pin vise and Artistic Wire coil winder. I also own and use a Kuro (a 1:1 Tobeco clone with removable rod).

So, are tensioned coils really superior to perfectly formed (without tension) coils? Anyone?

Well,...I remember at one time everyone torched their coils...I have both a tension jig and this Kuro... With all due respect to Russ... I have not seen much if any differences using the Kuro.

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk

 

[Thayamax]

I've never used a tensioned coil, but you may or may not know that the OP of the tensioned coil thread has since gone back to using a Coil Master and formed coils.

 

[Katya]

I've never used a tensioned coil, but you may or may not know that the OP of the tensioned coil thread has since gone back to using a Coil Master and formed coils.

Momentarily... He's back to winding tensioned coils. Just for the record.

How To Build The Turbo Coil Winder | Page 4 | E-Cigarette Forum

Like I said, I'm sort of ambivalent on the subject. I love the simplicity of my Kuro, but I have this nagging feeling that a properly wound tensioned coil is electrically superior to a formed one. That is, if one can really make a perfect tensioned coil--how much tension is really needed? And how to ensure that every single wind is wound with the same exact amount of tension? Is it even possible?

 

[Boden]

Hmmm... Here's what Mac has to say on the subject:

I'm trying to be kind...

I'm sure it sounds like science to someone who has no advanced understanding of the terms he is using.

 

[Boden]

Momentarily... He's back to winding tensioned coils. Just for the record.

How To Build The Turbo Coil Winder | Page 4 | E-Cigarette Forum

Like I said, I'm sort of ambivalent on the subject. I love the simplicity of my Kuro, but I have this nagging feeling that a properly wound tensioned coil is electrically superior to a formed one. That is, if one can really make a perfect tensioned coil--how much tension is really needed? And how to ensure that every single wind is wound with the same exact amount of tension? Is it even possible?

More importantly, does it matter

 

[Katya]

More importantly, does it matter

Well--it matters to me. I'm curious and I would like to know. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

 

[suprtrkr]

*Very* nice.

 

[Boden]

Well--it matters to me. I'm curious and I would like to know. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

Sorry, I was typing on a phone. I'm at a computer now.

The whole thing about even tension, even oxide bonding, etc. is all nice and good, the problem is the way it is being presented, it is a spherical cow. If you are not familiar with the term "spherical cow" it describes a solution that only functions in a perfect situation.

If you had perfectly even airflow on all sides of the coil, perfect coil to wick contact, perfect fluid flow then the 0.001% difference that having perfect tension, perfect oxide layers, etc. etc. would mater a tiny amount. Since that perfect situation could only exist by chance and a slim one at that, there is very little point in all the effort.

 

[Boden]

Please let me answer this more succinctly

I love the simplicity of my Kuro, but I have this nagging feeling that a properly wound tensioned coil is electrically superior to a formed one.

electrically there is no difference between what you are calling a "tensioned coil" and a "formed coil". If there was there would be a difference in resistance.

That is, if one can really make a perfect tensioned coil--how much tension is really needed?

A truly bonded coil would need to be made using a combination of heating the wire just under the melting point and light tension. It would have very low resistance as a result.

And how to ensure that every single wind is wound with the same exact amount of tension? Is it even possible?

Not by hand

 

[Katya]

I had a feeling... I have never been able to make a perfect tensioned coil--I know that for a fact--no matter how hard I tried. I started making my coils on a 2 mm screwdriver, like everyone else, then tried all kinds of gizmos, coilers, pin vise etc. I haven't seen much difference in the quality of my vape--honestly. But I thought it was my fault solely.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. You made me feel better. Back to my Kuro--until someone invents a perfected tensioned coil winder.