Mech vs Mech Box

[T0mmy1977]

I decided after doing a little research (and the help from you guys) to order the Dragon box mod clone. 26650 wouldn't of suited my needs. I'll post back with my likes/dislikes about the device, but I'm sure I am going to love it.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Just don't jump into learning the hard way;
a mech box will not give you any more active performance than a regulated box nowadays;
what a mech is good for nowadays is backup.

A dual battery mod will allow you to run higher power because 2 batteries can provide more power than one, whether its mech or regulated.

Apples to oranges.
Your regulated box may outperform a single 18650 battery mechanical, but it will give a completely different experience.
When we bring multiple batteries into the equation the lines blur even more. When we bring series mods into The equation, the game changes even more
Mechs and regulated mods are totally different, and offer a totally different experience.

 

[T0mmy1977]

I received the Dragon parallel box clone today. I put a build in the Royal Hunter: N80 24 g, 3 mm ID, 7 wraps each, .24 ohms. This build is no where near the limits of what I can build (a single 18650 can handle this build), but I am already impressed. I guess because 2 18650s can handle the load more efficiently? This is also my 1st build with N80 and I am liking it. I love this box already and think I won't be going back to single 18650 mechs. I'll enjoy this for awhile and then get a series box. This box was $24.99 from Kidney Puncher. Can you recommend a cost effective solution for a series box? I've read more on this subject and understand with parallel you build down and series you build up. Stay at .11 or above for parallel and stay at .45 or above for series. Is that correct? Also, with parallel do I calculate the amps as 20 x 2 = 40 amps available, or is it 20 x 1.5 = 30 amps available?

Thanks!

 

[Mrez]

I just looked over one of the review vids for the Dragon Box. It looks like it uses two copper wires to complete the circuit. With that design is it still considered a full mech or is there a MOSFET hidden in there? The design seems appears to be a bit more idiot proof then other parallel boxes in that there doesn't seem to be a way to bridge the Atty and mod...is that accurate?

 

[TheKman]

In parallel you have the current capacity of two cells but the voltage potential of one. In series you have the voltage potential of two cells with the current capacity of one.

With a higher voltage you can use a higher resistance build. The key is simply not to draw more current than your batteries are rated for. If you're unsure about your configuration, post here first. Safety first and all that.

 

[T0mmy1977]

In parallel you have the current capacity of two cells but the voltage potential of one. In series you have the voltage potential of two cells with the current capacity of one.

With a higher voltage you can use a higher resistance build. The key is simply not to draw more current than your batteries are rated for. If you're unsure about your configuration, post here first. Safety first and all that.

Thank you for your reply. I understand your points from researching. But is my amp limit 30 or is it 40? Some explanations I've read say 40 and some say 30 is the limit for safety reasons. Once I know my amp limit then I'll know how low I can go (using Steam Engine of course).

This calculator seams more fitting as Steam Engine doesn't have options for dual 18650, etc.

Calc

 

[TheKman]

What batteries? Samsung 25R has a practical limit of 20A, so two in parallel would be forty. Pretty simple math, no real surprises.

 

[Smellybelly]

Good series box is the noisy cricket. 20 bucks authentic. And it's nice and tiny. It is a hybrid cap though

 

[mhertz]

TheKman, Tommy wondered which is correct; double the amps in dual parallel config, or 1.5x the amps in reality... (The 1.5x amps, is because of taking account of real world scenario, but I don't know if that applies here)

I've also read both like him, and looked it up again, but couldn't help with the question, since it's split based on who replies and since I don't know enough about electronics personally to know the actual answer...

 

[TheKman]

I don't understand the reasoning behind further limiting the current capacity. If you can safely draw 20A from each, the wiring/switch is up to the task and you don't have any thermal problems, what's the issue?

I don't see one. That said, it doesn't hurt to be cautious... Up to you really.

 

[mhertz]

OK, thanks for that then! It wasn't as far as I understood, a safety kinda issue, since how much headroom before the CDR you need, is a personal thing, or, if going over isn't an issue, but it was more a technical issue I believe, meaning e.g. as example, if someone stated that parallel config wouldn't give twice the mah's in real world scenario, but more like 1.5x the mah because of some technical limitations of the completed circuitry... That was a really bad example, though, since parallel config, I believe, will give over 2x the mah i've read, because of twice the mah with included reduced voltage-sag... Thanks again!

 

[T0mmy1977]

Do not order the Dragon clone from Kidney Puncher. It is a poorly made POS. I tossed it out and got the Beast clone from FT and it is a well made box. Loving it. I also just ordered the Noisy Cricket from 3FVape for $20. I like the positive reviews and posts about this series box. It looks like a solid box.

 

[mhertz]

Sorry for repeating myself, but I was going to get another parallel box, and was splitted between castigador and abaddon, but after reading a bunch of reviews again on them, and with various issues, I ended up ordering another nikita clone for 20 bucks at FT. I've used it everyday for 1 month or so, and tested it down to 0.12 ohms perfectly fine(0.09 shortly tested fine also) and from looking at reviews for pretty much all the parallel boxes it's by far the easiest to take apart for maintenance and fantastic simple design/switch, plus consistently good reviews/forum-posts on FT, and 2 stated there best buy of all of 2015 and while all state it hits very hard, one also state it hits noticably harder than the raptor, abaddon and dimitri too. The only con, is screwdriver operation, but seriously, it's freaking fast anyways to change batts and if e.g. only using it at home like me, then it doesn't matter anyway imho...

In short, everyone, I really recommend considering getting a nikita clone if wanting the "SMPL of parallel boxes"... (One also stated he haden't been as impressed by a mech since the SMPL...)

 

[Mrez]

Sorry for repeating myself, but I was going to get another parallel box, and was splitted between castigador and abaddon, but after reading a bunch of reviews again on them, and with various issues, I ended up ordering another nikita clone for 20 bucks at FT. I've used it everyday for 1 month or so, and tested it down to 0.09 ohms perfectly fine and from looking at reviews for pretty much all the parallel boxes it's by far the easiest to take apart for maintenance and fantastic simple design/switch, plus consistently good reviews/forum-posts on FT, and 2 stated there best buy of all of 2015 and while all state it hits very hard, one also state it hits noticably harder than the raptor, abaddon and dimitri too. The only con, is screwdriver operation, but seriously, it's freaking fast anyways to change batts and if e.g. only using it at home like me, then it doesn't matter anyway imho...

In short, everyone, I really recommend considering getting a nikita clone if wanting the "SMPL of parallel boxes"... (One also stated he haden't been as impressed by a mech since the SMPL...)

I've got an Ivogo Dimitri clone, I think it's a great mod with one minor caveat, the one thing that bothers me about it is the need for a screw driver to adjust the positive pin on the button. The threading is good, but a bit loose, so it backs out when locking and unlocking. I can see an auto firing event happening with this mod, if one isn't paying attention to the throw on the button. Does the Nikita have a similar firing mechanism from the side?

 

[mhertz]

No, it's not the same as the dimitri in button/switch type. I don't have issues with the firing button and there's no locking at all, since the side-button is flush to the body.

I love it's looks and feel too, which fits nicely in the hand and with slightly rounded edges and just 149g and 88mm tall. The whole switch is simply a piece of delrin attached to the box by magnets, with two strips, one on each side, screwed into the delrin. The bottom strip is for the pos. battery connection and the upper strip is on the left side for touching the 510 connection and on the right side the strip end almost touching the bottom strips end as they are both bended 90 degress up/down the delrins right side and so almost touch and then very close to those two end strips there's the side button which when pressed simply pushes the under and upper strip ends together and completes the circuit and that button is pushed in by a lever on the side attached with magnets, and I don't have any issues with auto-firing and you can easily adjust the throw with bending the two endings slightly closer or longer apart etc. Sorry for not so good at explaining this

A very good breakdown and in-depth look at this mod, although for the original, but this is exactly the same except no silver plated contacts(everything brass i.e. pos-bridge, centerpin and neg-pins), then this convicted-vapes nikita review is very good imho:



Edit: Good pictures of box here also:

Post pictures of your working wick and coil setup

Also another good pic showing the delrin switch-housing taken out, which is easy-peazy with just 2 magnets attaching it back to the box, so it's just dragged out and dropped back-in. Also the two end-strips that the button pushes on to complete the circuit can be seen here on switch's left side from this angle on this pic, and the other side has the other end of strip poking upwards so it simply touches the 510 without any screws there either. The whole 510 connection is popped out with one single screw, and the fire-button while having a brass screwed-in firing pin internally, the whole button-assembly is just pushed in/out of box with fingers i.e. a maintenance dream :

http://i.imgur.com/2oKWjEe.jpg

https://picload.org/image/pogrdop/pict0085.jpg

I'll shut up now, lol But i'm just so impressed with this beautiful simplicity... The only thing I could see improved, for a little more cost, is like original silver plated copper contacts, or just copper, instead of full brass, but for one, everyone state it hits very hard already, me too, and e.g. the smpl is also full brass switch and hits hard with very little voltage-drop, so I don't really think it's that important an issue anyway, but just for that warm fuzzy feeling, if you know what I mean... The upside is also slightly less cleaning needed(corrosion) I guess plus, lesser risk of stripping screws etc...

Edit2: Just ordered a shenray 1:1 castigador and an abaddon on FC + 2 more velocities, so I have 6 now...

 

[Mrez]

Which Nikita clone is that, and let me know what you think if the castigador. The more I use the Dimitri the more I like it, but I also feel that it isn't hitting quite as hard as it could be, the top firing button is awkward, and that loose screw is a real problem. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Triador(sp?) From the same guys whondidnthe castigador and el muniquita.

 

[mhertz]

I will!

This is the black nikita clone and they also have it in silver/chromed color: $20.07 Nikita Styled 18650 Mechanical Box Mod - 2*18650 / aluminum at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Also on focalecig, which looks like the same: focalecig.com - Nikita Style Mechanical Mod - Black

Note, the pictures shows the fire-button to not be completely flush to the body, and some get it like that, and other get it flush. I got it not-flush, but fixed it by just screwing the firing-pin fully in which it wasen't, but others report having to do a little fix to it, although I did it by just turning the screw more in, but maybe I was lucky. It's a good idea to read both the reviews but also the discussion which the later goes into detail about what fixes people have possibly had to do etc. There's also a good discussion thread on the silver nikita on FT, which is the "main" thread for the nikita I believe.

If someone gets it and don't think it hits that hard, then adjust the upper end-strip a little out, so the two strips that completes the circuit makes better contact when fired... If having bad feelings about how the button feels, then play with the two end-strips and adjust them more in, out or closer, further etc...

I'm in vaping nirvana with the nikita clone, samsung 25r's, a velocity clone with dual 20g 3mm id 5/6 wrap ka1 at 0.12 ohms (Simple but very effective!)

 

[mhertz]

Sorry, just wanted to add for last thing about nikita, so people don't get it without knowing, that there's a little issue if running high current/amps builds...

At first I just thought it was coincidental, and that I had messed it up by having placed the delrin in slightly off and then the battery had pushed it off a little, but now after third time, I see it isn't that...

About once a week, if running a 0.12 build or below, then because the positive-plate isn't very thick, but pretty thin brass, then the lower builds will bend the end of the plate slightly out of place, so it doesn't make as good contact as before. It still works, but you will notice that it hits slightly less hard, because instead of 100% contact between the two strips that completes the circuit, then there's e.g. 90% contact, which is felt slightly on the output.

There where one reviewer in FT which speculated that this would happen in a FT forum thread, in the beginning, but I didn't really made a mental note of it. You can see on the way it's slightly bends out, that its not metal fatigue, but high current on this very thin brass plate(I wish they used copper there or atleast thicker brass.). Im no expert though, so maybe it is metal fatigue from continued presses, I dunno, but I just think it looks like current damage more. Also, I believe most of the parallel boxes with long metal plates for fire-button in silver-plated-copper(castigador/dos-equis I believe) needs adjustments for the throw anyway often... I fear though, that at a point the nikita pos-strip will break or get bad because of repeated abuse/bending, both by current and yourself when fixed... Btw, the reviewer which speculated this issue, runs 0.2 fine all the time, but also wasn't sure about much lower theoretically... I also first began getting it recently when changing from 0.17-0.2 to 0.12...

It just needs slight adjustment e.g. once a week, when cleaning it inside anyways...

 

[T0mmy1977]

About once a week, if running a 0.12 build or below, then because the positive-plate isn't very thick, but pretty thin brass, then the lower builds will bend the end of the plate slightly out of place, so it doesn't make as good contact as before. It still works, but you will notice that it hits slightly less hard, because instead of 100% contact between the two strips that completes the circuit, then there's e.g. 90% contact, which is felt slightly on the output.

This Beast clone I have is great. Check it out. The positive plate is think and the batteries fit VERY snug in the mod. The switch is also very solid. I had a bad parallel clone before and now this one, so my knowledge/experience is very limited on this subject, but I have no complaints with the Beast.

www.fasttech.com/p/1997801

 

[mhertz]

Thank you Tommy! Yeah, that's a nice thick brass pos-bridge/plate there for sure! I read the discussions, and in a thread about how low it could possibly go without issues, some worry about the amp limit on the vandal switches, hot-buttons, melting soldering and something about the 510 having plastic in/on which gets hot etc, but that was just speculation though and not experience, and it sure seems nice with thick wires, plates etc. I must admit that I usually ignore boxes with wirering, as e.g. not being able to take everything out and clean it etc, even though I know it can improve connectivity/fire-button response or something, i've read, but as I don't have soldering equipment/experience, though it's so cheap so not really needed anyway as you just get a new if wanted... I can't really rationally explain it much, but somehow just prefer fully mechanical boxes. They are just more intriguing somehow...

Thanks again for the suggestion, I will do some more investigations on it, mate!