28g Coils

Discussion in 'Modding Forum' started by BJ43, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I just recently started using 28 g kanthal A1, thanks to emonty. It has opened a whole new world of vaping. I now have large 28g coils on all my rba. Since there now seems to be an interest in 28g, I guess we should have a thread for it.

    A7 7 wrap 1.9 ohm oval coil 28g
    [​IMG]

    Vivi Nova 6 wrap 1.8 ohm oval coil 28g
    [​IMG]

    DID clone 10 wrap 2.1 ohm round coil 28g
    [​IMG]
     
  2. MXBNW

    MXBNW ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I love my 28GA for low Res set ups :)
     
  3. Lance_Wallen

    Lance_Wallen Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

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    I just got some of this today.

    I've had a long, annoying journey with my MOV DID Clone. I see why they get called Duds... I'm sure it's just me being an idiot but.. well, here goes.

    At first I was tryin to use 36awg nichrome. I had a hell of a time getting rid of hotspots/shorts. I finally got a coil set up going at 1.5ohm and no shorts. I juiced it up and gave it a couple hits... tasted like I was eating flaming pennies. I turned it down, now it was like eating flaming pennies without any vapor. It just tasted horrible. I flamed, torched, cleaned, did everything I could and make another coil with damn near sterile SS mesh and nichrome... taste like crap again. Using a menthol juice I couldn't even taste or 'feel' the menthol. I thought, maybe it's firing dry... I doused the wick, triggered it till it started spitting some vapor, capped it and hit it again, still tastes the same, complete crap.

    So, ordered some 32 and 28awg kanthal. Fiddled with it today, I could not, for the love of all that is holy, get a wick that didn't short. Iused the drill bit method where you make the coil and free fire it without a wick in the middle. The coil lit up nice, 3ohms like 10 wraps of 28awg. I took my time making it, spaced it out all nice and purdy. I get a wick, burn some juice on it, check the resistance at the tip... 50-60ohm. I figure... not good enough. Torch it, burn some more juice, check again. No reading on the MM so I figure I got a nice coating on it now. Chuck it in the coil, it fits nicely, not too snug, not too loose, slides in pretty nice. Short, short, short, hot spot, provari reading 1.1ohm (was 3ohm on the dot without the wick). take out the wick, check the coil, still 3ohm. Fiddled with that for an hour and finally rolled some loose cotton on it like cotton candy, soaked it up and took a hit.

    Much better taste than before but still pretty acrid. I taste all the flavors but the vapor is thin and harsh on the lungs, actually made me cough. It's not the cotton burning cause the cotton is not charred at all, stayed pretty moist. But my vapor production on a coil that's reading 2.8 ohms is terrible from 4v up to 5.5v , very little vapor, harsh taste, very 'airy' vapor that bothers the lungs. I've all but given up at this point on this device.
     
  4. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    In many posts you have stated your problems. I read one where another member that lives near you even offered to meet with you and show you how to roll a working coil/wick. My recommendation is that you take him up on his offer.
     
  5. gdeal

    gdeal Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    28g Kanthal A-1 is currently available at A 1 28 AWG Resistance Heating Wire 50 Ft | eBay

    $6.50 for 50ft. $1.95 shipping.

    Placed an order on the night of the 16th, confirmed ship on the 17th. Looking forward to rockin a 10 turn coil on a geni.....
     
  6. Lance_Wallen

    Lance_Wallen Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

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    I will eventually, life is pretty busy. I post when I'm at work usually :p not a lot of downtime.

    This last set up is what is really confusing me, I've got a big beefy coil on a pretty tight 400mesh wick and it's vapor production is just.. well, crap and it burns my lungs, not temp, just hte 'feeling' at least the flavor isn't horrible anymore.

    I'll tear it down and make another one soon, maybe the burning in my lungs has something to do with the cotton I use to isolate the wick.
     
  7. MISTer E

    MISTer E Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I have an 18650 mechanical mod in the mail :closedeyes: & the only other device I have used is my soon to be second tier super ego vv's (650 mAh). One of my VV's drained quickly(20 min from about half full) pushing 28 @ 1.8 ohms 3v. I knew something sadly was awry! liquidamber of sweetgum on roasted chestnuts on the open fire with BTU's of warm not hot (unless that's how you want it) tasty vapor were nice, but I felt the VV's would go kaput &/or kaboom, if I tried to push them this way.

    I just want to say. be wise noobs (such as me). If your ego batteries drain quickly using 28. Do not destroy your batteries or yourself. Get a real (more mAh & amp) mod, with (or add) safety features. (My VVs vape 1.8 ohm 32 awg fine. Factors deeper than a simple ohm/volt=watt chart are @ play.)

    When they drained that quick & the vapor was soo tasty, I was glad I am older & thus wiser than in my youth. I would be vaping on ticking VV's til my new mod arrived, like an idiot :p



    Lance_Wallen A+ for effort. I hope you get all your apparatuses how you like em & soon ;)


    gdeal ;) I bought my 28 a1 from the same source (on his last batch/spool). Picked up some 33 a1 & some 32 pure nickle non resistance from them as well (999 silver is flimsy & breaks easy).



    BJ43 & any1 with a switch over experience, "how do you sum up battery drain into your "battery use time" equation?"

    I know you get less time with 28 awg, :blink: how much compared to lets say 32 AWG?


    I hope to have my mod soon (I got the 28) & be able to contribute a bit of 28 AWG experience [​IMG]
     
  8. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I have 1 lavatube and it gives me about 6 hours battery life with these. I only tested it one day to see because I vape VV PTs 99% of the time. On a new fully charged Panasonic 18650CH 1.8 ohms at 4.4v for 10.7 watts.
     
  9. gdeal

    gdeal Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Not sure why you would get less time with 28g vs 32g if your volts and ohms are the same on the same battery. From my limited research, its all about amp draw from the battery all other things constant.

    The calc for real life battery use time is very complex....

    On a side note, if we look at BJ' set up:

    ...so that is an amp draw of 2.44 amps

    Here is a link to the specs for BJ battery: Panasonic 2250mAh CGR-18650CH

    They are rated at 2,250 mAh. (Nice charts on characteristic variables that effect performance.)

    Using this calculator: Battery Life Equations Formulas Design Calculator - Current Drain Rate

    He should have about 42 minutes of discharge time. (So if inhale and exhale times are equal, he is vaping about 24% of his time during the 6 hour period? BJ? :confused:)

    See link for a nice noob overview. It certainly helped clarify it for me a bit:How to calculate battery run-time
     
  10. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I guess you can say I am a chain vaper. :) When I said about 6 hours, it could have been 7 and I never vape until the battery completely discharges, just until it starts giving less vaper. As I said I very seldom use a battery it is just for those moments I can't be connected.
     
  11. asdaq

    asdaq Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    BJ maybe it would help how many ml in that time frame. :)
     
  12. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Don't know ml. Used an A7 with one of my crazy bamboo thread rigs and just added as needed.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    My 6 hr test was not really a precise test, just wanted to confirm it would last more than 3 hrs. That is about my limit on a bar stool a couple of times a month.:toast:
     
  14. MISTer E

    MISTer E Senior Member ECF Veteran

    BJ43
    I see no comparison to non 28.

    my question was? "I know you get less time with 28 awg, how much compared to lets say 32 AWG?"

    The "I know" part maybe presumptuous more than knowing, but your answer is no real answer to my Q. I Thank you for trying to answer my poorly worded & written Q (it helped a bit :) ). I apologize for my lack of formal education & communication skills.

    *I now see from your later posts toward gdeal that you rarely use batteries ;)




    Gdeal & any1 else

    My original statement of "One of my VV's drained quickly(20 min from about half full) pushing 28 @ 1.8 ohms 3v." statement is not my complete experience. I did run that half charged (maybe less) unit @ higher volts as I experimentally cycled voltage (3-6). I quickly learned 28 heats up slowly. I do not recall staying on higher volts(I may have), even know it heats up much quicker that way, because I do not (that I am aware of) vape @ high watts. That 5 watt & 3 volts was the majority of the 20 minutes is not set in stone, as I am an airhead often.

    I just charged both my same model vv's & rotated them on a 28 awg 1.8 ohm atty counting puffs. 1 seems to be draining much faster than the other & that is likely the majority of my quick battery drain experience. My my my the 28 taste/flavors are vaporlicious [​IMG],.. both drained dead (warm to the touch) within 3 hours(not even pulling high amps, set @ 3.2 on the units to give me an actual 3 volts). No more 28 for mE until my new mod arrives :(

    I am a noob & the link with math sadly was over my head. I did enjoy reading what I could digest. I booked marked it to try to decipher it later even know the math stuff will likely always be over my head.

    I do feel(may just be in my head) part of the long heat up time of long thick 28 compared to short skinny 32, drains my vv batteries quicker, for even to one that seems to not be draining quicker than the other is draining much faster than I feel is normal(The battery also gets much warmer with 28. could it be the holding the button longer to get a vape? Is it in my head? is the heat sink variable of the huge gauge playing some part?, I do not know. Further experience & learning may change that.

    If I want to heat a tub(28) of water to the point of steam, it takes much more energy than to do the same in a cup(32). My common sense is likely playing tricks on me (electricity is more complex than common sense). That & my lack of formal education.
     
  15. gdeal

    gdeal Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    MISTer E

    You may be correct sorta of b/c the required amperage to reach the same wire temperature. 28g requires ~2x the amps vs 32g depending upon target wire temp level.

    For reference: Resistance Wire.Com | Nickel Chrome, Nickel Copper, and Iron Chrome Aluminum Alloys from Stock

    Not sure how you were varying voltage during to compare your results of 28 vs 32, so we may need more data.

    I have been searching, but I don't think the book on optimization of ejuice vaporization has been written .... there as so many factors/variables.

    Forget formal education, hah ..your concepts and thoughts are well appreciated. (and your posts and graphics are standout!)

    I anxious await my 28g, so I can start getting some real world experience. In the interim, google is my friend.


    BJ

    That A7 is looking very tricked out. I get the bamboo wrap, but what is that dark blob sticking out of the center?
     
  16. LucidAce

    LucidAce Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    BJ, I never would've guessed that you had any kind of off-the-shelf battery mod. I was expecting some kind of custom mod with batteries out of something from the space shuttle or something.

    EDIT: Should've read your signature...derp
     
  17. BJ43

    BJ43 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Lol the lavatube is for bar vaping, have a couple of box mods that are PT/Batt but they draw to much attention.
    [​IMG]

    One with a battery dock.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. junkman

    junkman Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Got some 28 and 30 on the way. I really hope my battery doesn't take too much of a hit with this. Already to short of run time as is.
     
  19. LucidAce

    LucidAce Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Nice. Those are awesome, but I can see what you mean about possibly attracting unwanted attention when at a bar.
     
  20. MISTer E

    MISTer E Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Gdeal(You deserve a capital G in my book) that link with "Current-Temperature Tables" is just the type of info(mmm variables), I was after. I do think much of my problem is/was likely tied to the super ego vv & its kick down voltage system("I assume" it takes some energy/amperage to kick down the batteries native stored energy amps & it likely does it very inefficiently). 1.8 with 32 does OKish with battery time(a little less than my normal 2.5 set ups), but the added bulk of 28 @ 1.8 seems to be just a tad too much maybe for my super ego VV PCBs stuff to handle well.

    The data from 28 vs 32 is mostly speculative hindsight (*other than)
    The data of when they both died within 3 hours. Is = My 2 vv's fully charged with 1 28 1.8 coil griffin atomizer cycled every approx 20 full vapes. The counters suck on these units, but its final counts were along the lines of 1 of the batteries drained fully @ 120ish count & the other went to 350ish. 1 of them clearly has an issue & is on its way to its death @ 60 days old(did 28 play a role? Maybe but likley not much, I push these things hard. I got my moneys worth out of it). To give perspective, I normally get about between a *400 to 500 count on 32 awg @ 2.5 ohms.

    As far as my defensive apologetic ways about my writing. I can not often decipher it :blush: I know it is often a barrier. Thank you for letting me know some of my twisted ideas & thoughts are appreciated. I have little elementary education & rarely write words or speak. I am proudly a hiding reclusive hermit of sorts, that said I know, love, & enjoy my weirdness.




    junkman, I do think 28 pushes small ego type batteries a little hard(on my models anyway). I do think 28 is just a feather too thick for my models. I do think 1 of them has a defective board or cell, as it is dying quickly. 2 paragraphs up describes my approximated puff count, it may ease your mind a bit. Do not be too weary about 28 from my words(I am often a "the sky is falling type") try it & be observant, ask Q & share ;) I am sure your units will likely do OK(a better mod than small egos are more ideal for 28 IMO). My vvs have alot on their pcb's. A puff counter, lcd display, & usb passthu are extra baggage to their boards that are not on all small battery egos.



    LucidAce
    I do not know what you are seeing LucidAce but whole E guacamole, if I saw one of those in a bar I would say is that a breathalizer. I then would see the display readings & think that BJ43 has the highest blood alcohol limit of any human that has ever lived. (& continues to live :blink:) Then again he is only half human:blink:
    [​IMG]



    BJ43, those boxes are even better than my imagination, imagined from your sig :p



    I now need a to go & refill a few mls of oils & feed my coils [​IMG]
     
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