Chemicals in e-cigarette flavors linked to respiratory disease...?
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Who is noting zero consequences? Some are asking for legitimate scientific link, not supposition. Your straw man quote here would lead someone to claim that vapers believe vaping results in zero consequences. Especially if, ya know, it were diketone free.
The unfortunate part is that anyone feels there needs to be a mandate in the industry when you've (rightfully) noted that a choice exists for all consumers.
Same goes with all aspects of vaping, or really all aspects of anything new in society. But, some of us are asking for any cases of actual harm and/or actual scientific link.
In cases of factories, significant symptoms manifested in 18 months (or less). With smoking, abusive smokers get indications of it being damaging to health within 2 years. This notion that it will take a decade or more could forever be added onto just to justify the supposition. Could be 3 decades from now and the supposition / fear mongering crowd could say, "give it some more time and you'll see that we were right all along."
Thank God, for your sake that customers have a choice. And thank God for humanity's sake that thus far no one has reported significant issues with lungs when vaping for more than 18 months.
I find it pertinent to the discussion that vapers will report on a forum that after seeing their doctor and having lungs examined, that they were told all issues from smoking have either mostly or entirely cleared up and that their lungs are equivalent to a non-smoking person.
Or maybe I wrote it wrong...nah, impossible.Ah! Guess I read it wrong -- I think I was desperately in need of a nap at that point.I agree -- I try to avoid any flavors that I know contain any diketones. Not because there is any concrete evidence, but because my asthmatic lungs don't need even any POTENTIAL further strikes against them.
Andria
Or maybe I wrote it wrong...nah, impossible.
I looked at the time of my post, and rather than needing a nap, I had just awakened from one! So not surprising I read it wrong, my eyes were probably about half open!
Andria
While the content and concept of your post it spot on...
I took the liberty of highlighting the most important word in your post.
Without the media doing the dirty work, we would not be where we are now.
So while many blame Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Government...
I blame the media more than any other.
Control of hearts and minds.
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In light of the release on the study done by Harvard University on diacetyl and the attention that it has received via news platforms such as KGUN9 News, we wanted to reassure our customers that none of Freedom Smoke USA’s product contains diacetyl or any other dangerous additive. We were made aware of the harmful effects of diacetyl 5 years ago based on studies that have already been conducted and have since excluded this dangerous additive from our E-juice. Our personal providers at flavourart have taken the same precautions against diacetyl by excluding it from the products that we purchase from them, as of 5 years ago as well, in order to adhere to our standards on this issue. We take pride in giving you the healthiest vaping options on every level and are appalled that this has caused such an uproar given that this knowledge has been available to our competitors, as well as users in the vaping community, for such a long period of time. This is not related to ALL E-juice.
If you have any questions or concerns on any E-cig issue, please reach out and we will be happy to assist you.
I know where you stand on this stuff and you know where i stand , we can go back and forth forever on this but we are never going to agree . Your still asking for science when you know very well it's not available at this time , 18 months is nothing.
If you really believe you are not going to suffer serious health consequences by continuing to vape (consume) large quantities of diketone loaded juice at the extreme temps people are vaping at these days i think your nuts , (nuts in a good way of course) .
Imo, you have to be someone who refuses to practice basic common sense and disregard logic to think this is not going to have a serious impact on peoples health in the long run , yes, i know your that person who doesn't believe it and insist on proof .
I hope your still a member here in a decade or two because thats when one of us will be proved wrong , if it's me i will congratulate you , i honestly will but i think your just as stubborn of a person as stubborn gets (and i mean that in a good way of course) , i'm very stubborn myself in case you hadn't noticed.
I think when it comes to this topic though, being stubborn is being reckless and just not very smart when you have a choice .
According to the science, it is adequate amount of time to make some sort of determination. How about you find the information on those who were diagnosed with lung problems from inhaling diketones and report how long it took for their symptoms to show up?
I think it's possible, but based on known data thus far, it would be rare.
It also seems like moving goal posts (in a good way) to go from 'shouldn't be in there at all' to 'large quantities.' Would you say equally nuts if someone is vaping low to medium amount? Especially considering the idea that overwhelming of majority of vapers have likely already inhaled (substantial amount of) diketones for decades?
Not really appreciating telling me what it is you think I must believe. But while were at it, the position you are advocating for follows the logic that regulations, industry wide, are a good thing. Even if it bankrupts vendors along the way. If it means an allegedly healthier vape, albeit we won't know for 30 more years, then so what, eh? Sucks to be those vendors, huh?
Cause really, that's the other primary point that I'm debating when I engage in this topic. If the choice already exists for consumers, then I really don't see what the issue is. You don't want to vape it, then you ought to be good to go in today's market. Yet, if you are going to make the point that no one should vape it, then you really ought to have something to back that up beyond supposition. It's like assuming everyone is endanger from formaldehyde via vaping, because as rare as it may be that people vape incorrectly, the fact that it could happen ought to be enough for no one to encounter that issue. Let's regulate industry wide so that only devices that would forbid that are available.
Next, we can work on that anti-freeze component. Get that out of all products, cause someone might be tempted to substitute actual anti-freeze and vape that in large quantities. Seems there's no other way to understand this than to assume people will vape large quantities of anti-freeze unless the industry is strictly regulated to control such things.
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Where in the article does it say that "there has not been a single confirmed case of a smoker contracting popcorn lung"? This is what's incorrect. As far as I can tell, that is your own interpretation.
And, when the article says that "previous claims of a significant exposure–response relationship between diacetyl inhalation and respiratory disease in food/flavoring workers were confounded," they mean confounded by higher diacetyl rates among smokers due to smoking.
The salient points are that smokers were no more likely to get popcorn lung than non-smokers, so that would rule out the idea that diacetyl is a risk factor for popcorn lung as well.
Here's their (Pierce 2014) later reply to Akpinar-Elci and Elci 2014. They reiterate, "More importantly, even though smokers arguably have the highest peak and cumulative diacetyl exposures of any definable cohort, smoking is not a risk factor for bronchiolitis obliterans. These observations argue against a relationship between diacetyl exposure and bronchiolitis obliterans."
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"Big Pharma" is not to blame, it's the health fascist ideologues at the ACS, ALA, AHA, and the Public Health associations. And, those health fascist ideologues hate "Big Pharma." They prefer to believe in magic fruits and vegetables and exercise and non-smoking/vaping and pure BS as their "wonder drugs." It's their propaganda that has brainwashed the "Big Pharma" haters. And they're the ones who are guilty of inflicting massive scientific fraud as the status quo, namely studies based on lifestyle questionnaires that ignore the role of infection. Those kind of "studies" are rigged to favor the lifestyle preferences of the privileged classes who are less exposed to the relevant infections.
And that cliche about "Big Tobacco" is their propaganda cartoon as well. So-called "Big Tobacco" lets them get away with their fraud, because the varmints in charge of the tobacco companies are simply members of those privileged classes, the same as with any other corporations. And all their so-called experts come from the same dirty pool of infection-ignoring charlatans as those of the ACS et al.
And the media exist to serve those privileged classes and help them keep the masses ignorant and downtrodden.
Carol,
It's in the article (that I also linked at the bottom of that post) that gives a link to that study:
How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes
It's not the first time we've seen that quote in various articles. I know it's been contested - where someone has said that the symptoms of COPD may be BO, etc. etc.
But not just smoking - which they say has no risk for BO.
Even if one assumes that the GML (Gilster-Mary Lee (GML) microwave popcorn plant in Jasper, Missouri) cohort had an increased risk of obstruction, as has been noted by others it is unclear how these effects could all be ascribed to workplace diacetyl exposure, because: (1) there were hundreds of volatile organic compounds measured at the facility, many of which were known respiratory irritants [31] and [38], (2) a significant fraction (57%) of the workforce indicated they were exposed to respiratory irritants at off-site locations, including chemicals known to be causes of bronchiolitis obliterans (e.g., nitrogen oxides found in silo gas) [28], and (3) rates of respiratory obstruction were actually more highly correlated with respirable dust exposure than diacetyl exposure [38]. As noted earlier, OSHA has not promulgated a standard to govern occupational exposure to diacetyl, and they have concluded that “A cause-effect relationship between diacetyl and bronchiolitis obliterans is difficult to assess because … food-processing and flavor-manufacturing employees with this lung disease were exposed to other volatile agents”
Characterization of naturally occurring airborne diacetyl concentrations associated with the preparation and consumption of unflavored coffee
Perhaps virus was a compounding factor :- )
Big Pharma is not immune from blame here.
And those you focus blame on (the "alphabet soup" groups) are heavily funded by Big Pharma.
Something to consider...
As drug industry’s influence over research grows, so does the potential for bias
So I'm having a hard time with the concept of alphabet soup "health fascists" hating Big Pharma...
FORCES International - News Portal
The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF) has granted millions upon millions to "heath fascists" that you list...
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Grant Archive
There are a lot more grants than listed in the search above.
That is just a start.
It's disappointing to see a place like Harvard do propaganda science that discovers nothing new and then claims it is and THEN implies risks it's research does not investigate. The study was paid for by the government. The government buys so much science that you're not a viable scientist outside of private companies unless you'll take government money. I wonder if there is any research facility outside of business that says they take no government money. Consider how much fun planetary science is. That's because there are no voters on Pluto.
OK, I see it now. That should be a lesson to all not to get your "facts" from the Daily Caller. They obviously don't know what they're talking about.
As a matter of fact, post-infectious bronchiolitis obliterans is well known to occur in children - who aren't either smokers or workers.
Clinical features of post-infectious bronchiolitis obliterans in children undergoing long-term azithromycin treatment. - PubMed - NCBI
[Clinical analysis of 28 cases of bronchiolitis obliterans]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Clinical studies of children with bronchiolitis obliterans]. - PubMed - NCBI
[Common viral etiologies of community acquired lower respiratory tract infections in young children and their relationship with long term complicat... - PubMed - NCBI
Pos-infectious bronchiolitis obliterans in children. - PubMed - NCBI
"Big Pharma's" bias is towards the efficacy of their products. And they make far more money on disease treatments than on peddling quit-smoking crap. That's why the only kind of pathetic "evidence" that "Big Pharma" haters ever come up with is about e.g. diabetes drugs or cancer treatments, stuff for which an ideology of health fascism is irrelevant.
And the "Alphabet Soup" groups don't need RWJF because they created the federal health establishment long before RWJF even existed, with their behavior control funding agents embedded therein. RWJF didn't even get involved until the 1990s, FFS, while the Office on Smoking and Health has formally existed since the 1960s! And the ACS openly declared war on smoking in 1957.
Harvard has been the mothership of charlatanism from the very beginning. They're the ones who most depend on studies based on lifestyle questionnaires, that ignore the role of infection.
On the off chance this is a serious question: Vaping is a recreational activity, similar to riding a motorcycle or taking a vacation in my car. These activities involve an entirely avoidable risk to my safety--avoidable because I can cease doing them altogether. But I enjoy them so I choose to continue. Now, I can either wear a helmet or not wear one. I can wear my seat belt or not. In both instances I choose the latter because I do not wish to avoid these enjoyable activities altogether, but instead prefer to minimize the hazards to the extent practical. Similarly, I wish to continue to enjoy vaping but can easily do so without the added risk of inhaling diketones.
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