Without reading 260 pages, should I still sign this even though I'm not from the US? I'd be happy too, but would rather only do it if the others here think it's a good idea.
Look, let's face it.. they (the FDA/govt) KNOW it's 95% safer than cigs (according to the lung tissue tests done in the UK), but they just want to find the best way to monetise it, for THEM! Even with analog smokers, I was doing an average smoker's tax calculations today (for Australia)..Now around 20 bucks of tax per pack here, so that would be $140 per week, so just over 7K a year. Of smoking tax! Many (most) smokers smoke 30 or 40 years before, and if, something really bad happens. They'd have paid over 200 K in taxes.. and the govt says they need all that money to cover health care for smokers.. Um.... If one in ten need something that might cost 200k like a transplant, the government are still making an absolute killing and this, and only this, is why we have some of the harshest vape laws on the planet here. They are trying to find the right way to monetise it. It's corrupt, and downright cruel.. to focus only on the negative of the sad situation that some underage are taking it up, and totally ignore the positives of those of us who literally quite smoking and went to vaping for our health. And even though science was my weakest high school subject, even I can tell you that no combustion has to absolutely, inarguably, make vaping *automatically* safer than cigs. With the few temp control devices that work effectively, with devices where there is little risk of a burnt hit - it would have to make it even safer! I finally got my old man to quit after 50 years smoking and coughing a lung up every day, and in two months, his spitting has lessened by 99%. Fact. It's safer.
I know most won't be a fan of him, but has anyone in the vaping industry in the United States, sought legal council now with the incoming president, to perhaps seek the appropriate government person who could make a bill( and put Mr Trump to the test with his promise of reducing regulations)? It might sound like a crazy long shot, but I have seen a few others write it over the last year, so I thought, maybe there is something to it.
I do know one thing.. If America has positive steps towards vaping, we(oz) will follow (like we always do). In fact, the US taking a positive proactive move in this regard, would have worldwide echoes of positivity for the industry. I am sure of it. Sorry that i just can't read 260 pages, and I tend to write a lot, but I do hope I am on topic
Look, let's face it.. they (the FDA/govt) KNOW it's 95% safer than cigs (according to the lung tissue tests done in the UK), but they just want to find the best way to monetise it, for THEM! Even with analog smokers, I was doing an average smoker's tax calculations today (for Australia)..Now around 20 bucks of tax per pack here, so that would be $140 per week, so just over 7K a year. Of smoking tax! Many (most) smokers smoke 30 or 40 years before, and if, something really bad happens. They'd have paid over 200 K in taxes.. and the govt says they need all that money to cover health care for smokers.. Um.... If one in ten need something that might cost 200k like a transplant, the government are still making an absolute killing and this, and only this, is why we have some of the harshest vape laws on the planet here. They are trying to find the right way to monetise it. It's corrupt, and downright cruel.. to focus only on the negative of the sad situation that some underage are taking it up, and totally ignore the positives of those of us who literally quite smoking and went to vaping for our health. And even though science was my weakest high school subject, even I can tell you that no combustion has to absolutely, inarguably, make vaping *automatically* safer than cigs. With the few temp control devices that work effectively, with devices where there is little risk of a burnt hit - it would have to make it even safer! I finally got my old man to quit after 50 years smoking and coughing a lung up every day, and in two months, his spitting has lessened by 99%. Fact. It's safer.
I know most won't be a fan of him, but has anyone in the vaping industry in the United States, sought legal council now with the incoming president, to perhaps seek the appropriate government person who could make a bill( and put Mr Trump to the test with his promise of reducing regulations)? It might sound like a crazy long shot, but I have seen a few others write it over the last year, so I thought, maybe there is something to it.
I do know one thing.. If America has positive steps towards vaping, we(oz) will follow (like we always do). In fact, the US taking a positive proactive move in this regard, would have worldwide echoes of positivity for the industry. I am sure of it. Sorry that i just can't read 260 pages, and I tend to write a lot, but I do hope I am on topic
Without reading 260 pages, should I still sign this even though I'm not from the US? I'd be happy too, but would rather only do it if the others here think it's a good idea.
Look, let's face it.. they (the FDA/govt) KNOW it's 95% safer than cigs (according to the lung tissue tests done in the UK), but they just want to find the best way to monetise it, for THEM! Even with analog smokers, I was doing an average smoker's tax calculations today (for Australia)..Now around 20 bucks of tax per pack here, so that would be $140 per week, so just over 7K a year. Of smoking tax! Many (most) smokers smoke 30 or 40 years before, and if, something really bad happens. They'd have paid over 200 K in taxes.. and the govt says they need all that money to cover health care for smokers.. Um.... If one in ten need something that might cost 200k like a transplant, the government are still making an absolute killing and this, and only this, is why we have some of the harshest vape laws on the planet here. They are trying to find the right way to monetise it. It's corrupt, and downright cruel.. to focus only on the negative of the sad situation that some underage are taking it up, and totally ignore the positives of those of us who literally quite smoking and went to vaping for our health. And even though science was my weakest high school subject, even I can tell you that no combustion has to absolutely, inarguably, make vaping *automatically* safer than cigs. With the few temp control devices that work effectively, with devices where there is little risk of a burnt hit - it would have to make it even safer! I finally got my old man to quit after 50 years smoking and coughing a lung up every day, and in two months, his spitting has lessened by 99%. Fact. It's safer.
I know most won't be a fan of him, but has anyone in the vaping industry in the United States, sought legal council now with the incoming president, to perhaps seek the appropriate government person who could make a bill( and put Mr Trump to the test with his promise of reducing regulations)? It might sound like a crazy long shot, but I have seen a few others write it over the last year, so I thought, maybe there is something to it.
I do know one thing.. If America has positive steps towards vaping, we(oz) will follow (like we always do). In fact, the US taking a positive proactive move in this regard, would have worldwide echoes of positivity for the industry. I am sure of it. Sorry that i just can't read 260 pages, and I tend to write a lot, but I do hope I am on topic
Welcome to ECF and and congratulations on getting you father to quit smoking via vaping. You may well have saved his health, not to mention his life.
Yes, you can sign the petition. At this point I don't know if it will do any good but at least you will be on record as having opposed this bs and the more voices we have, the stronger we are. Even if we are just a needle in their side we need to be a persistent one. We are going to be buried under the lunacy to come this year and who knows, maybe something will get passed buried under the the other stuff. Pence is against vaping and I doubt the PEOTUS knows what it is.
It's (extremely) distressing that other countries would follow suit on our deceptive (lying) slant on vaping. Don't sell yourself short, you seem to have done some decent sleuthing about the truth of vaping and followed through on what you have found. Keep reading ECF and continue to educate yourself. There's a lot here, you just have to keep on your toes.
There's also a good Australian ecig forum, not hard to find, with a lot of good information. Search it out.
If your father ever wants some help, or just to talk, guide him here Older Folks and Vaping Front Porch - Part 5 Lots of folks ready and willing to talk with him. You too for that matter, no age discrimination on the porch.
So yes, please sign the petition, it makes us all giddy for days and forever cements you as one of our family.
(No, you can never escape that once a member, which you now already are. 
) Do please feel free to ask other questions here, we may not be able to answer them but can probably direct you to where they should be asked. ECF is like the ultimate maze but it's big because it's bulging with information for all aspects of vaping.
Hi Flamingo.. going to sign right now
With the OZ follows USA comment, I probably worded it wrong. We seem to be heavily influenced from many different decisions there.. The US making some sort of significant stride in regards to Vape law (positive or negative), would likely impact us too. I could be wrong.
Yeah the aussie forum seems great too.. I will get around to joining there also, sometime soon
Thanks again for more continued warm welcome. I LOVE funny pics and I love animals.. have had dogs and cats for all my life. currently 2 kitties a boy and a girl... One of them hates vapour the other one loves it LOL,she sticks her head in and takes a sniff.
With the OZ follows USA comment, I probably worded it wrong. We seem to be heavily influenced from many different decisions there.. The US making some sort of significant stride in regards to Vape law (positive or negative), would likely impact us too. I could be wrong.
Yeah the aussie forum seems great too.. I will get around to joining there also, sometime soon
Thanks again for more continued warm welcome. I LOVE funny pics and I love animals.. have had dogs and cats for all my life. currently 2 kitties a boy and a girl...
One of them hates vapour the other one loves it LOL,she sticks her head in and takes a sniff.
Welcome, @Vesh ! And thanks for signing on.
While incidental and occasional contact isn't a big deal, do be aware that PG isn't good for cats. So the one who likes to vape may need to be discouraged. Obviously you don't want them drinking juice, and nobody knows what effect repeated long term inhalation will have.
That said, we have cats as well, have vaped around them for years with no ill effects - but I'm careful to exhale over their heads when they're performing their lap-warming function
Helo David and thank you. Wow I really didn't know that. I never make a conscious effort to send it her way, but because I like dessert juices many which smell sweet, she seems to seek it out. The boy is one of the genius cats,who mimicks animals, opens drawers and closed doors, so maybe he just knew it wouldn't be good for him, as he literally runs away. Anyway since there have been cat pics, this is Trinity after a groom, looking at me with here "I want attention" googly eyes. I'll have to find a recent picture of Ange, he's a bit of a porky. Oh, and, petition signed. Fell asleep before. I sleep strange hours, now 4am here.
Was going to ask is the little fella gets cold, but it's summer down under
Here's Stella
And Max, at about 4 months old (last October)
Here's Stella
And Max, at about 4 months old (last October)
Beautiful animals there! Are they well behaved? I presume Stella is older, did she accept Max (he's got such a stunning face).
With the weather, Trinity is scared of her own shadow, in 6 years since I got her, she has never left the house. Really, it was too late, but after some time, I realised the coolest and most fitting name for her would have been "shadow". So the grooming is more to control hairballs and hair around the house. She never vomits when she is groomed (she is a very long haired cat by nature).
The boy likes to explore but I have cat fencing, as I already lost my most beloved cat to a car in 2007 and I never got over it (if you knew his nature, you would feel the same). He was called Neo, so Trinity was a natural naming succession. My first cat ever is Buffy, so when I got Ange, the most natural name fit for him was Angel lol.
Trinity spends every waking and sleeping moment by my side, on my lap, on the bed, or just on top of the couch. Even if i get up to go to the bathroom for 30 seconds, she follows. I kind of feel sorry for her, but she was in a litter that was dumped on someone's doorstep at 4 weeks old, and a dog broke in and killed and ate every single one of her siblings (5 of them). She was the sole survivor. I don't think she ever got over it as it must have been so traumatic. I was so happy I was able to give her a home though, nurse her to health, get her the right medicine for her eye infections, and now she is a healthy well built cat.
But yeah if she was an outside kitty i would only groom her starting Jan, which is when our hot weather starts. One good thing is that they are genuinely friends.. I had Ange over a year before I got her, and he looked after her like she was actually his. It was amazing how gentle he was when she was little, so as to never hurt her. If they are ever cold they just wrap up together, but I put a portable oil heater on if it's really cold in the room,. and they both sit one on either side LOL and don't move for hours. They love it.
I should also mention I have a good, hepa and VOC pre filter air purifier in my room.. No fake ion or ozone, just pure filtering. It helps tremendously with the vapour. Surely that would take away some risk from the kitties.
With the weather, Trinity is scared of her own shadow, in 6 years since I got her, she has never left the house. Really, it was too late, but after some time, I realised the coolest and most fitting name for her would have been "shadow". So the grooming is more to control hairballs and hair around the house. She never vomits when she is groomed (she is a very long haired cat by nature).
The boy likes to explore but I have cat fencing, as I already lost my most beloved cat to a car in 2007 and I never got over it (if you knew his nature, you would feel the same). He was called Neo, so Trinity was a natural naming succession. My first cat ever is Buffy, so when I got Ange, the most natural name fit for him was Angel lol.
Trinity spends every waking and sleeping moment by my side, on my lap, on the bed, or just on top of the couch. Even if i get up to go to the bathroom for 30 seconds, she follows. I kind of feel sorry for her, but she was in a litter that was dumped on someone's doorstep at 4 weeks old, and a dog broke in and killed and ate every single one of her siblings (5 of them). She was the sole survivor. I don't think she ever got over it as it must have been so traumatic. I was so happy I was able to give her a home though, nurse her to health, get her the right medicine for her eye infections, and now she is a healthy well built cat.
But yeah if she was an outside kitty i would only groom her starting Jan, which is when our hot weather starts. One good thing is that they are genuinely friends.. I had Ange over a year before I got her, and he looked after her like she was actually his. It was amazing how gentle he was when she was little, so as to never hurt her. If they are ever cold they just wrap up together, but I put a portable oil heater on if it's really cold in the room,. and they both sit one on either side LOL and don't move for hours. They love it.
I should also mention I have a good, hepa and VOC pre filter air purifier in my room.. No fake ion or ozone, just pure filtering. It helps tremendously with the vapour. Surely that would take away some risk from the kitties.
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60,110....
Yes, Stella is coming up on 9. No, she didn't take well to Max
.
Had to put my avi (Red) down just over two years ago (at 15), and his brother, nearly identical, last year. Stella got to be an "only" cat for a few months, before we found Max, and liked it.... but she's adjusting (slowly, and not doing more than hissing and spitting to establish pecking order
Thankfully, she loves for me to brush her, otherwise, as a long hair cat it would be a real mess! She's an in/out cat, Max hasn't been allowed out yet, not until after he's neutered (later this month, coming up on the magic 6 ). We're very rural, so cars aren't much of an issue. Coyotes are, so we've always gotten them in and secured before dark.
Yeah, just like us, cats are partially conditioned by "childhood" stresses! Good that Trinity found a good home, even if it's in a virtual matrix
Yes, Stella is coming up on 9. No, she didn't take well to Max
.Had to put my avi (Red) down just over two years ago (at 15), and his brother, nearly identical, last year. Stella got to be an "only" cat for a few months, before we found Max, and liked it.... but she's adjusting (slowly, and not doing more than hissing and spitting to establish pecking order
Thankfully, she loves for me to brush her, otherwise, as a long hair cat it would be a real mess! She's an in/out cat, Max hasn't been allowed out yet, not until after he's neutered (later this month, coming up on the magic 6
). We're very rural, so cars aren't much of an issue. Coyotes are, so we've always gotten them in and secured before dark.Yeah, just like us, cats are partially conditioned by "childhood" stresses! Good that Trinity found a good home, even if it's in a virtual matrix
I'm sure that will help, but unless blowing vapor directly and frequently into the cat's face I don't think it's a major concern.
David, it's quite normal for a senior female cat to reject a new house entry.. I have seen this multiple times and heard the same from others. I do hope she eventually comes around.She looks like such a pushover with those stunning blue eyes. Never judge a cat by it's cover hehe. Coyotes hey.. wow I wouldn't know where to begin there. Even in rural Victoria I haven't seen such a thing. There's dingos up mid north of course. But I do keep an eye out for snakes, even in the burbs.
Sorry for the loss of your twins, but I am certain from your words that they had a great life.
Pet lovers never really 100% forget though. I'll always miss Neo and it's been 9 and a half years. I actually got him for Buffy ironically, as she'd lost her friend of 8 years Tiger, and was mostly an outdoorsy cat, so I thought she'd love the company. Um.. yeah.. not. Tiger raised her, like Angel raised Trinity.. So I suppose that's why she accepted him from the age of a 6 week old kitten, as he was the boss.
With Neo, she literally used to disappear until I would bring him inside. I've found boy cats to be more smoochy overall, but i love both equally. Trinity is sweet to me and loves when mum visits, but she's frightened of most others and hides in the lining of the sofa which she found a hole in lol. (or made). I'll find a pic of Angel and Triny when she was a bubba and he was fussing over her it's all in my icloud somewhere.
Sorry for the loss of your twins, but I am certain from your words that they had a great life.
Pet lovers never really 100% forget though. I'll always miss Neo and it's been 9 and a half years. I actually got him for Buffy ironically, as she'd lost her friend of 8 years Tiger, and was mostly an outdoorsy cat, so I thought she'd love the company. Um.. yeah.. not. Tiger raised her, like Angel raised Trinity.. So I suppose that's why she accepted him from the age of a 6 week old kitten, as he was the boss.
With Neo, she literally used to disappear until I would bring him inside. I've found boy cats to be more smoochy overall, but i love both equally. Trinity is sweet to me and loves when mum visits, but she's frightened of most others and hides in the lining of the sofa which she found a hole in lol. (or made). I'll find a pic of Angel and Triny when she was a bubba and he was fussing over her
it's all in my icloud somewhere.
60,112!!
We got Max when he was (so we were told) at 9 weeks, and hoped Stella would "mother" him. Nope. He's too friendly and frisky!
We got Max when he was (so we were told) at 9 weeks, and hoped Stella would "mother" him. Nope. He's too friendly and frisky!
@Vesh, thnk you for signing!
Poor Trinity, she really had a bum start in life. She's very lucky she found you. I don't think you ever do really get over the loss of a pet, just as you never really do about anybody you've loved and they pass on. Heck, I still terribly miss my rat, Skippy, and that was 50 years ago.
For you and @DavidOck, and this is just what I've read here from cat owners. Some cats are more sensitive to PG than others. One sign that cats are having PG problems is excessive grooming, as I remember. One person had to get emergency treatment for their cat while other cats were fine and going bugnuts over catnip vape. (Alice in Vapeland sells some Cheshire Catnip | Alice in Vapeland, probably others.) search ecf, better yet google it and stick ecf into the search and you'll find threads about it.
I wouldn't be responsible if I didn't say to always err on the side of caution concerning vaping and pets, especially in allowing them to get a hold of juice with nic.
Poor Trinity, she really had a bum start in life. She's very lucky she found you. I don't think you ever do really get over the loss of a pet, just as you never really do about anybody you've loved and they pass on. Heck, I still terribly miss my rat, Skippy, and that was 50 years ago.
For you and @DavidOck, and this is just what I've read here from cat owners. Some cats are more sensitive to PG than others. One sign that cats are having PG problems is excessive grooming, as I remember. One person had to get emergency treatment for their cat while other cats were fine and going bugnuts over catnip vape. (Alice in Vapeland sells some Cheshire Catnip | Alice in Vapeland, probably others.) search ecf, better yet google it and stick ecf into the search and you'll find threads about it.
I wouldn't be responsible if I didn't say to always err on the side of caution concerning vaping and pets, especially in allowing them to get a hold of juice with nic.
they will never ever get a hold of juice.. that is all locked in a cupboard with it's own locking mechanism.. Because i have a lot of high nic pg juices in there to complement the low vg stuff, my first priority was making sure the pets could never get to the bottles.. Cats have claws.. plastic not tough against claws.. and i am sure they would kick over the glass ones too if they had the chance. I only keep max of 2 tanks on my bedside table, always in a mod screwed in securely, but to be honest, they have never even once investigated the mods in 3 years. I must admit though that I don't allow them in the bedroom when i'm not home, that's the only door that gets locked.
Sorry about your rat.. it's actually sad that you still miss him, as that's a long time, and makes me think I will never get over Neo! Oh well, I guess that's the punishment for being capable of feeling.. I'd rather have it than not. You wouldn't believe it, but neither of the cats are interested in catnip.. Not the plant, not the spray. How weird is that? Buffy used to go crazy over it and even with one spray on her bedding, she would roll around like a pig in poop. But these two? Nup.
And people are actually vaping catnip? For real? Is it weird that I find that weird? lol
Sorry about your rat.. it's actually sad that you still miss him, as that's a long time, and makes me think I will never get over Neo! Oh well, I guess that's the punishment for being capable of feeling.. I'd rather have it than not. You wouldn't believe it, but neither of the cats are interested in catnip.. Not the plant, not the spray. How weird is that? Buffy used to go crazy over it and even with one spray on her bedding, she would roll around like a pig in poop. But these two? Nup.
And people are actually vaping catnip? For real? Is it weird that I find that weird? lol
60,113 and a couple of targeted posts last night gave it a bump. When I receive a like for the post and then see another signature I know it was from the post!
60,113
I agree that you never forget the pets you have loved but the pain of the loss lessens as time passes. I will never stop missing the ones I have loved and lost.
I agree that you never forget the pets you have loved but the pain of the loss lessens as time passes. I will never stop missing the ones I have loved and lost.
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