Petitions are useless.
Those in power are enticed to keep their power.
Vote 'em out.
Those in power are enticed to keep their power.
Vote 'em out.
Remember the bank and auto bail outs?
An overwhelming number of voters asked their reps not to approve it.
An overwhelming number of voters asked their reps not to approve it.
That would depend entirely on what use you are putting the petition to. So far it's been a great tool for spreading awareness and reminding people that there is a fight going on.
The above two quotes from the petition show how far afield this petition is, especially the second quote. The author claims vapor products are a safer alternative to tobacco products, but of course that is a lie, and an unforgivable one for someone claiming to be supporting THR. Smokeless tobacco has the same low risk, and perhaps even a bit less risky, then vapor products. The petition is doing no favors for the 8 million or so ST users in the USA, and need I even mention the good folks of Sweden and Norway.
The petition falls for the same lies that have plagued us for decades, and no, I certainly would never sign something that claims vapor products are a safer alternative to tobacco. Since this petition reinforces the widely held misinformation that tobacco is the problem, in the long run it will likely do more harm then good.
Don’t like the petition, don’t sign. The ship has already sailed about how the petition should be worded. Neither of you showed up for that one. If the best either of you can do is try to derail this thread because you disagree with wording or simply the idea of petitions, this isn’t what this thread is about, it’s about signing it and spreading the word. So far there are over 21,000 people that disagree with you. Go start your own thread and bash away.
This will be the third time I'm directly answering you, and if you ignore this one as well, I will stop trying. Would it make you feel better if I added the word "combustible" before tobacco products? That's not the point of the petition though, to show that THR is viable. The point of the petition is to stop the deeming of vapor products as tobacco products. I'm sorry I didn't do enough in your mind to fight for ST, that wasn't my intention, and it doesn't serve the purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish.
I looked at the previous petitions and it's fairly obvious why they did absolutely nothing. The one directly to the white house was actually successful, it just asked for the wrong thing. It asked for the FDA not to ban vapor products, well, they didn't, they have no intention to ban. They only need to regulate them into non-existence.
THR with actual tobacco products, like ST, is another fight. Just as correcting the lies told about smoking is another fight. I'm choosing the battle that has an actual possibility of being won at this time, even though that chance is slim as is.
The fundamental problem with the petition (besides petitions having essentially no positive outcomes) is not because it focused on vaping, it is because while focusing on vaping you chose to throw other THR methods under the bus. You also reinforced the bad information already out there on other products. That is the problem. Whether that was from simple ignorance on the subject of THR, or willful intent, (I suspect the former) only you can answer.
I haven't a clue as to what you mean by ignoring you.
Below from the petition. Besides being a rather perverse and uneducated twist on what THR is, it is also a complete contradiction to your above post.
And this from your above post.
So which one is it.
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When I first put the petition up you made a similar post, that I responded to, and you did not respond. When you,posted about the CTA, I responded, and you did not respond to that.
I do support THR in all forms, however, the fate of ST is not going to be put before congress at this point. Smokeless IS tobacco, and while I may know that smokeless tobacco is much less harmful than combustible tobacco, it is still a tobacco product. The fight to have lower harm tobacco products recognized as such is important, but it is not what I am fighting for at this time. You may see that as choosing to throw THR under the bus, I see it as framing the current fight in the terms that the FDA/CDC/etc. are using. They treat tobacco products as a whole, and they are poised to deem vapor products as tobacco products. That is the specific objective of this petition, to not have vapor products deemed as tobacco products, not because calling it tobacco makes it inherently harmful, but because calling it tobacco makes it subject to the tobacco control act.
Again, the petition may or may not directly effect the outcome of anything, but it can be used as a tool to spread information and awareness.
21,273 If I see rain starting to pour on this here parade I have my umbrella ready. I also have the crow ready for any naysayers to enjoy when we join the long list of petitions on Change.org's victory list.
Stubby is selectively quoting to make his point. Reading the whole petition, smoking and combustion are mentioned often enough already that there's really no "throwing under the bus" going on.
Adding the word "combustible" in the sentence he did quote would only dilute our message, that vapor ISN'T tobacco.
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