Preliminary results from Dr. Eissenberg's study (Yep, e-cigs deliver nicotine)

Discussion in 'Medical Research' started by Placebo Effect, Feb 24, 2011.

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  1. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    Posted on WebMD by the same author of the article on Dr. Siegel's study.

    "Electronic cigarettes CAN deliver nicotine": Smoking Cessation Community - Support Group

    The author attended the annual Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco (SRNT) conference in Toronto.

    And the author finishes with a positive note

    On Monday I drove 4 1/2 hours down to Richmond, Virginia to be the 4th participant in this test. I vaped 16 mg Halo Menthol with a Bartleby 3.7v. Dr. Eissenberg still needs participants (it pays $200 and takes about five hours), and I encourage experienced users to give it a go.
  2. Oliver

    Oliver ECF Founder, formerly SmokeyJoe Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Thanks for this, Placebo - this is an extremely interesting development.
  3. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    Dr. Eissenberg seems to have become a friend of our cause.
    That is fantastic, and the results both interesting and encouraging.

    I'd love to know what the other participants were using!

    Thanks for taking the time to get down there and participate.
    I'm surprised we don't have a lot more people in that area giving it a go.
  4. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
  5. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    It's probably far too early to make this declaration, but I do think he's approaching it with an open mind. It's extremely unlikely that Dr. Eissenberg will come out and admit, "E-cigarettes appear to be considerably safer than smoking," any time soon. He wants to see substantial evidence that the direct inhalation of propylene glycol in the amounts used by e-cigarette users is not a concern, and he also shares my slight concerns about the unknowns involved with inhalation various food flavorings. As I explained it to him, I don't doubt that it could eventually be revealed that inhalation of some flavoring or flavorings lead to e-cigarettes being more like 97%, 98% safer than smoking, rather than 99%, but I don't think it's possible for any of these flavorings to compare to the harm caused by cigarettes.

    The question is, if there are several other users who display high nicotine levels when given unfettered access to their e-cigarette, will it be interpreted against the backdrop of "Blood Nicotine Levels From a Single Cigarette," which, as I recall, tend to reach 12-14 ng/ml per cigarette? If so, there's bound to be responses from the American Cancer Society, Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids, etc. damning high nicotine liquid as having the potential to hook children even faster than cigarettes.

    I asked Dr. Eissenberg's research partner if it is common for a chain smoker to reach 30 ng/ml when given free access to smoke in a similar period as his test subjects were, as well what the highest ng/ml level they've witnessed or read about from a smoker.
  6. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    Let us know if you get an answer please.

    This comment made it seem as though the highest concentration of 30 ng/ml was comparable with cigarette smoking.
    But it is possible that I read it wrong or misunderstood which of "these levels" were being referred to with that last statement.

  7. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    Got a response. 30 ng/ml is a level typically observed after 1 or 2 tobacco cigarettes in a daily (15+ a day) cigarette smoker, and "30ng/ml is not extremely high and we can see venous plasma nic levels reach higher than 30 ng/ml." It appears the 30 ng/ml resulted from someone who was using a cartomizer with a strength of above 18 mg.

    Good news to me. Of course, the antis -- including the same people who have (rightfully in my mind) complained that the tobacco companies are promoting / forcing dual use by making the nicotine content of new American snus products so low -- are still going to pick this up as a reason to damn e-cigarettes.
  8. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Eissenberg has stated that he still views e-cigarettes as a drug delivery device (or an FDA-approved modified risk product, should the FDA approve them as such) and believes they should be sold/recommended only once they are proven "safe and effective" under FDA pharmaceutical standards. (Yet he doesn't test for safety and efficacy, he tests for nicotine delivery. :rolleyes: )

    He has stated that he'd recommend a barely effective yet proven safe product over a product which he says has "unproven effectiveness and unproven safety."

    So, while he'd support e-cigarettes as a smoking cessation device if they meet FDA NRT safety standards, I wouldn't say he is a friend to our cause.
  9. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    But he sounded so nice.

    Thanks for the clarification.
  10. Rosco

    Rosco Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 23, 2010
    Great thread...Thank you. :thumb:
  11. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    He has, however, stated that when being interviewed about e-cigarettes, he will refer the journalist to Elaine Keller and CASAA. All things considered, that's good enough for me at the moment.
  12. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
    It sure would be nice to have journalists looking to CASAA for the balanced report. Too often they interview a mall kiosk sales rep who has limited knowledge of the issues.
  13. Rosco

    Rosco Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 23, 2010

    Now a Bold statement. Thank you.
  14. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    Since Eissenberg previously wrote two articles and issued a press release (that generated several news stories) claiming that e-cigarettes emit NO nicotine, seems like he should issue a public retraction, correction, clarification, apology or whatever.

    Interestingly, Eissenberg's colleague Andrea Vansickel and I will be presenting about tobacco harm reduction products at a conference in Newport News, VA on April 6.
    Reducing Youth Tobacco Use Conference April 5-6, 2011: Prevention Connections
  15. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    In his defense, the original study did deal with first-time users, and with a device that (as I recall from his posts here) did not come with adequate instructions that explained how to properly puff. I'm sure that my first time vaping, which was with an awful RN4081 model that also came with threadbare instructions, I received no statistically significant amount of nicotine in my first 10 puffs.

    However, I would hope that his eventual study / press release (since no one reads the actual studies) does contain a clear clarification about what that study actually showed.
  16. JollyRogers

    JollyRogers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 30, 2009
    I participated way back in November... I was using a Super-T P18 with 18mg cartomizer tobac flavor from eliquidplanet. I was jonesing so bad when I got there, all I wanted to do was vape... I didn't realize they had so few participants, and sure would like to know what MY results were. BTW, Adrea and all the people working with Dr. E were very nice and professional. I was there on Andrea's B-Day... on a Saturday!!! No way I woulda been working on a Sat.
  17. mwa102464

    mwa102464 Resting In Peace ECF Veteran

    I think where putting to much into only one Dr's study, ( it's great don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful that Dr Eissenberg is doing this, but I would like to see 4-5 different studies done and sometime soon) why the heck with all the people involved with ecigs now, Cassa, and just the entire population that surrounds ecigs cant we pull off a few different study's to compare notes.

    I would think there would be other Dr's and universities that would be interested in doing such since there hasn't been to many done. I understand studies cost money but heck some of these universities have money for this kind of thing in there budgets and donations for funding could be raised for studies it's done all the time, am I missing something here? I mean it is going on what 3 yrs now that ecigs have been around and with all the barking of are they harmful or are they not isn't it time some how some way we can get numerous studies completed ? Please don't take me the wrong way I'm just very curious what is so hard about getting these study done, heck where sending people into space and we cant get 5-6 different simple studies done. Someone help me out here with my thinking and logic on this I must be missing something ?

    And again I'm very happy this study is getting done but I really would like to see a few more
  18. Uma

    Uma Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    Interesting.... and I'm sure there are even more JollyRogers with their P18 equivalants that were there too.
    I wonder what gives?

    Funny, but ... when they fought just us adults and left the kids out of the scenario, they tried to convince us that there wasn't any nicotine in ecigs.
    Now that their fight is based on kids and they are leaving us adults out of the scenario, they try to convince us that there is a normal amount of nicotine...

    yet both ways suggest they indeed help adults to lessen their tobacco intake...

    still.... I just hope that the studies are non-biased and honest, no matter who they are at bat for.
  19. Placebo Effect

    Placebo Effect Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 19, 2008
    Only four people have gone to Richmond to take part in the test, and two are in this thread -- myself and JollyRogers. Dr. Eissenberg needs at least 6 more people to participate for the study to stand a chance of being published in a journal.

    I actually met someone at school tonight who has been using a Blu for 2 months, and was excited when I told him about the laboratory experiment and the $200 payment. I sent him over the info.
  20. Beez

    Beez Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 16, 2011
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Someone mentioned poor instructions above... That is the case, of course, with all models. It is the huge negative with PV's and desperately needs to be corrected. I made up my own manual to give friends, but that is not the answer. People will give up out of frustration unnecessarily due to a lack of info. While most of us at ECF are willing to seek needed info, I do not think that we are the average buyer.
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