Titanium wires

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imeothanasis

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titanium wires dont catch fire Torr, your info is totally wrong.
Of course they exist on market for 2 years but people didnt understand well what they had in their hands. Now its time to know.
And dont buy cheap stuff. Titanium is expensive and when you see low prices you have to stay away
Didn't even know about titanium wires until a few hours ago. My short tour accross the internet leads me to believe this is overhyped and likely to be overpriced. Heres some quick bullets.

This stuff has been around for like 2 years in the vaping community. I'ts not new and isnt putting kenthal to rest.
This stuff catches on fire with a regular cig lighter. Real safe people.
Can get 5 meters for dirt cheap at Biriecig. Only $3 shipping! Equiv to 30 gage.
Seems it's more of a tinker thing then a legit vape. You can google but here will give decent idea.

So my short excursion I'm passing on this.
 

RiverNut

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Yea....I have never seen items disappear from my cart before either! I watched as my brass ggts tube, brass stealth cap, and ss/ brass venting caps vanished. I managed to get a couple things, but not everything I wanted unfortunately :-(
hopefully, you'll get another chance with FV after Greek vacations :)
 

fright88

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You are right, but the main difference here is that in a supermarket once you have them in the cart you cannot walk out for a week and then come back to pay for them. In online shopping your cart stays with you as long as you don't delete it and it is not feasible to keep them reserved for u without payment. Unfortunately that's how e-shopping works and yes it is not ideal.

As someone who doesn't over stock on parts and honestly hasn't had any of my normal parts go bad todays stock issue didn't effect me but I can say giving people some time to finish their shopping would probably be a good thing. I would advise a 30 min to an hour timer. Dell outlet has a shopping cart like this. If I put something in I have 15 or 30 min to start the checkout process. Once it is in my cart it is taken out of their available inventory. if I decline to purchase or if I walk away from my computer it is put back into inventory. I personally believe a setup like this would be a good thing.

Again this is JMHO
 

treehead

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my opinion is to use the same width of wires and just make longer coils. That way you will have more heating space

aal, thinner wires of nichrome or kanthal give worse taste because they have small coverage on wick. You dont have this issue with titanium because its coverage is double. But for even better taste to my opinion, use the same width as you used with nichrome and make longer coils. That way you will have the best of both worlds

That's what I'm most excited about! Basically spreading the same heat, over double the surface area, I saw that video of it heating up, it looks amazing! In the past few months I worked my way from 28ga kanthal, to 24, then 22. And then I made the jump to 22ga Gplat, which is lower resistance, and it just gets better and better the lower the resistance! I'm thinking titanium will be big soon, I did some research on it, and posted in the micro-coils forum if anyone would like to see it. I was debating posting it here, because I heard some were worried about the safety, however in actuality it's one of the safer metals for a coil available! (Assuming it's pure titanium, and not mixed with anything else that could be worry-some.)

I have really high hopes for Ti!
 

treehead

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4rGJG3L.jpg

Registered nurse (& Biological Sciences Major) reporting in! I love these material safety hunts, I had fun with Rayon, and now Titanium wire.

The bottom line in my opinion: there's basically nothing to worry about. (As long as the wire is pure Titanium and/or mixed with something harmless)

***Here's a few of the sources I used to research the stuff, ScienceLab is great for their up-to-date MSDS's, and in color for once :p.
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925268
Poor lab mice experiment (this and one on guineau pigs (literally), are the only empirical studies on TiO2 inhalation, and is what the MSDS is partly based off of.
Inhalation Exposure Study of Titanium Dioxide Nanoparticles with a Primary Particle Size of 2 to 5 nm
Wikipedia (I know, not exactly scientific, but it's accurate 99.999% of the time :p. I used it to find out how it's produced.)
Titanium dioxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To start, Titanium is one of the toughest corrosion (rust) resistant metals on the planet, it's literally insoluble in water (will never rust underwater), and technically is impossible to rust under normal conditions. To actually get the Titanium to rust (to make Titanium Di-oxide, it's not oxide like most metals, it needs to be bonded with two oxygens, which is one of the reasons it's so corrosion resistant), it basically needs to be mixed with a VERY powerful acid, for example stuff they use to melt cement/metal with, or it can be mixed with a promotor as dust, and heated to 1500-2000 Kelvin! That's something vapers in 2050 can't even hope to achieve, because that means you have to dry burn your coil to 3,140 Farenheit (which is very close to it's melting point of 3,349 Farenheit, so if you dry burn it that hot, your more likely to have a white hot puddle of titanium, and a burnt insulator long before then.). So I'm not saying it's impossible to make titanium di-oxide with a vaping battery, because it fairly low resistance, BUT, I think you'd have to be pretty darn thick to dry burn it that hot lol. By then all of your juice would be atomized, and like I said, you atty would be very hot and most likely burning some delrin nearby. It'd be way unnecessary, and I think the person who burns it that hard pointlessly, has more to worry about in life other than dry burning his coils.

If you were aforementioned level of thick-headedness, below are the possible harmful effects of Titanium rust (TiO2, Titanium Di-Oxide).

In skin, eyes, and ingestion, there's virtually no harm whatsoever. It's basically a mild irritant if you were unlucky enough to be powdered in it, and you began to mechanically rub it against your skin (much like beach sand would, but a little finer/sharper). It's like a harmless abrasive, as long as you rinse it off without rubbing it into and smearing on your skin/eyes, you'll be perfectly fine. If you swallow it, no harmful affects other than an upset stomach, and gastro-intestinal discomfort (much like eating fine sand lol, I wouldn't know), it will not bio-absorb, or get in the bloodstream, it'll simply leave the hard way, which probably won't be fun. Nausea is likely, but only if your really exposed to the stuff, like intaking a really small handful in a day, which will never happen in vaping.

Now for what we want to know about inhalation, assuming it makes it's way out of your juice, or you happen to be inhaling over the dry-burn I guess.

No hazard is expected in normal industrial use. (THIS, is personally all I needed to know to feel safe about Titanium rust, because as vapers, we won't even come CLOSE to normal idustrial use. We'll be exposed to such minor amounts, if any whatsoever, it'll be negligible even compared to the non-dangerous effects of workers who use it everyday.) It's classified under "nuisance dust", which means may cause irritation when inhaled. In other words it may give you some asthma like effects temporarily, pulmonary obstruction until you cough it out eventually (you'll know if you inhale it, which is comforting to me.).

Possible chronic Health Effects caused by heavy occupational dust exposures may cause chronic rhinitis, chronic bronchitis, impaired pulmonary function, resemblance of silicosis without any fibrosis, functional change in trachea or bronchi, chronic pulmonary edema.

(Heavy exposure is something I almost left out because it does not, concern us vapers whatsoever. You'd literally have to take a few feet of the stuff, dry burn it into titanium dioxide powder, and inhale that daily. Which is unrealistic, more like impossible.)

So for absolute, basically impossible worst case scenario, it was cause lesions (in animals, no studies/evidence for humans) in the respiratory tract when inhaled constantly over a period of days. (Which again, no vaper that isn't trying to end their life will EVER be subjected to these amounts!)

So the experiment on the poor mousey's ended well anyway, basically they were exposed to a constant level of Titanium Di-oxide dust in the air for 3 weeks, maintained by aerosol, and they experienced "carcinogenic" effects, which doesn't always mean cancer mind you. They had higher numbers of alveolar macrophages, and lung lesions (which are technically tumors, but not the cancerous type), these tumors were completely healed 3 weeks post-experiment. So for 3 weeks the mice were bombarded with more titanium rust than any vaper will ever come close to inhaling, and the health affects they encountered were small growths basically caused by the lungs trying to combat the constant irritation the TiO2 caused, which later healed and disappeared after being removed from the dust.


So what I'm understanding is; as long as there aren't any hidden production substances, or other metals added to the (pure) Titanium wire, then there's basically zero chance of any life altering side effects, let alone any effects under vaping circumstances! I think it's looking fairly promising, granted the wire may not be 100% pure elemental Titanium, and that's what my research was based off of. But titanium is known as a "cleaner" metal, there aren't any allergies associated with it, it's used in surgical instruments & prosthetic body parts (screws and rods also, I have some in my tib/fib), and it's extremely hard to break down. Besides, Titanium Di-Oxide is a main ingredient in sun-screen for christ sakes! I'm sure it won't give us all lung cancer, because factory workers have been inhaling grams of the stuff at least for decades, and they haven't documented any evidence of anything drastic, even at ludicrous inhalation levels.

Believe me, I'm not trying to be on team Titanium (although that has a nice ring to it), but empirically it's looks very promising. And there's a voice in the back of my head telling me, "Holy crap, look how fast that coil heated up, I'll vape it and just watch my health as I go!" :p I'm already looking for some myself, I bet it has a cleaner taste (then again I can't taste kanthal, nichrome, or Gplat, so we'll see I guess.), here's hoping it's in stock somewhere!


nnokyCq.jpg



What do you guys think?
:vapor:
 

Ryedan

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To start, Titanium is one of the toughest corrosion (rust) resistant metals on the planet, it's literally insoluble in water (will never rust underwater), and technically is impossible to rust under normal conditions. To actually get the Titanium to rust (to make Titanium Di-oxide, it's not oxide like most metals, it needs to be bonded with two oxygens, which is one of the reasons it's so corrosion resistant), it basically needs to be mixed with a VERY powerful acid, for example stuff they use to melt cement/metal with, or it can be mixed with a promotor as dust, and heated to 1500-2000 Kelvin! That's something vapers in 2050 can't even hope to achieve, because that means you have to dry burn your coil to 3,140 Farenheit (which is very close to it's melting point of 3,349 Farenheit, so if you dry burn it that hot, your more likely to have a white hot puddle of titanium, and a burnt insulator long before then.). So I'm not saying it's impossible to make titanium di-oxide with a vaping battery, because it fairly low resistance, BUT, I think you'd have to be pretty darn thick to dry burn it that hot lol. By then all of your juice would be atomized, and like I said, you atty would be very hot and most likely burning some delrin nearby. It'd be way unnecessary, and I think the person who burns it that hard pointlessly, has more to worry about in life other than dry burning his coils.

Just to make sure I get this right treehead, you're saying unless I dry burn titanium wire to the point I almost melt it at over 3,140 deg F, there will not be any oxidation on its surface?
 

etherealink

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Yes... we do use them a lot and everywhere, but we don't inhale their steams

JMHO

OK, I've read about enough of that lack of logic.

Simple question, do you stop breathing for the *entire* time any appliance that heats kanthal or nichrome wire is being used?

No, therefore you *do* inhale the fumes of anything that comes off of them while being heated. Granted, its in a "diluted" form as its mixed with a larger volume of air than in an average atomiser... but saying that you *never* inhale the vapors is just plain wrong.

I agree totally that many fumes associated with these metals breaking down due to thermal degradation are unhealthy but they were tolerated as "more healthy than" smoking; are we now doing the same thing by demonizing the use of kanthal and nichrome or the way people are using it - and this new wire is only just being released?

I'll go back to enjoying my degrading metal fumes with my vape.
 

etherealink

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OK, let's break this down a bit before the hype train rolls over the truth.

First, we "oxidize" ss mesh to create an insulating barrier to current (ie: no metal to metal contact, so no current transfer) in terms of a genny-style atomiser - and yes, admittedly, its bad news to inhale the fumes from that.

Second, we "anneal" resistance wire to change the malleability or it and help it hold its shape once coiled, and sometimes before. Yes it changes the physical properties to an extent and possibly releases some fumes which are dangerous.

Third, when we dry-burn (intelligent people) we are burning off the burnt on residue from juices that has collected on our coils and not simply heating to the point of oxidizing the metal of the coils (or at least not intentionally).

Does that sound about right? Would you not dry-burn a Ti coil for the same reason?
 

Pathology

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"As a powder or in the form of metal shavings, titanium metal poses a significant fire hazard and, when heated in air, an explosion hazard.[85] Water and carbon dioxide–based methods to extinguish fires are ineffective on burning titanium; Class D dry powder fire fighting agents must be used instead."

This is what my Google searching has found me in multiple places. A coil, if it were laying about, looks an awful lot like a metal shaving to me. I have no intentions of heating this by my face. Sure, the chemical composition of the metal might be a healthier alternative, but scorching my face off is not exactly something I'd consider healthy. Watch some YouTube videos of people heating Titanium...then tell me you want to intentionally heat it by your face. The risk may be small, but using this wire seems like an idiotic thing to do to me. I'll take the "possible" insignificant health "risks" of kanthal verses the "possibility" of titanium wire catching fire, ruining my atty that its in, and potentially harming myself as well.

The logic of this wire makes no sense to me. Feel free to use it if you wish, but when you ruin your atties and burn yourselves...don't complain to anyone about it.
 

CaptSteve

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The issue here guys is when we torch kanthal it releases alumina oxide which in high volume if inhaled may be dangerous. The question we should be asking is what is released when torching Titanium wire?

I did a test on my sample wires first for fire and second for oxidation. When I torched the sample Ti wire a) It did not catch fire, it just glowed red hot exactly like kanthal and b) yes it did show signs of oxidation (it changed color to a lighter, whiter tint.

I'll make a video demo for you guys later today
 

CaptSteve

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Ok guys I have a serious correction here. The wire I tested is not the batch which E-smokeguru is selling. it's a sample Imeo brought and gave me for testing. Apparently the batch for sale through Vasilis is from a different supplier and much higher grade.
Although I do not have that yet to test a good friend Babis and Steliosss tested it at high temp and it produces no surface oxide indication.

Once I receive the wire I'll do a test and post images for you
 

CaptSteve

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The problem Steliosss is that Vasilis never told me that the wire I have and the wire he's selling is not the same. Imeo brought that sample Ti wire I have but after talking to Vasilis he told me that it's not the same. In fact Vasilis's wire cost something like 4-5 time more. So the issue here is obviously the grade of Ti wire.
After what you told me of the test you and Babis did it obviously behaves totally differently than my one. It makes perfect sense that a different grade of Ti would behave differently under high temp however.

Great news because it seems that Vasilis wire is very high grade Ti and I look forward to testing and trying it
 

steliosss

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This is my 2 days simple coil titanium 1 ohm (goes to 1.2-1.3).
15ml of Waldmeister liquid in 2X2mm wick (don't trust cotton... sorry)
No dry burning at all and I didn't test to "light" my coil in the beginning. I put 2-3 drops of liquid and then I push the button!!
Just want to show you how clean is my resistance Ti wire.
Nothing else


IMAG0212.jpg


Sorry... sellphone photo

This is my 5 days simple coil titanium 1 ohm (goes to 1.2-1.3).
About 30mls of Waldmeister liquid in 2X2mm wick (don't trust cotton... sorry)
No dry burning at all and I didn't test to "light" my coil in the beginning. I put 2-3 drops of liquid and then I push the button!!
Just want to show you how clean is my resistance Ti wire.



IMAG0214.jpg




Just a few residue particles in the housing ;)
 

steliosss

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The problem Steliosss is that Vasilis never told me that the wire I have and the wire he's selling is not the same. Imeo brought that sample Ti wire I have but after talking to Vasilis he told me that it's not the same. In fact Vasilis's wire cost something like 4-5 time more. So the issue here is obviously the grade of Ti wire.
After what you told me of the test you and Babis did it obviously behaves totally differently than my one. It makes perfect sense that a different grade of Ti would behave differently under high temp however.

Great news because it seems that Vasilis wire is very high grade Ti and I look forward to testing and trying it

You sucked the common Ti wires???
Are you Ok now?
Somebody want you dead? :laugh:
 

CaptSteve

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I'm fine and in fact I learnt a very valuable lesson from this experience. Low grade Ti wire is probably worse than kanthal where high grade is much better. Once i have Vasilis wires I'll prove my point to everyone here with some evidence.

We must only use very high grade Ti wire because the lower grade produces titanium oxide at high temp dry burns. As always you get what you pay for.
 
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