Vacuum?

[SteveS45]

To create and sustain a vacuum you need a totally airtight container. Pressure changes causing a tank to leak can also be explained by the change in the liquid in the tank. As atmospheric pressure is lowered the volume of the liquid will increase. Basic Physics here and I am not a scientist just an X Auto/Marine technician. To achieve a vacuum in an A/C system it requires a long period of time to achieve and you will never on this planet achieve a true 30" of vacuum it is not possible.

Even in out space it is not a complete vacuum as there are hydrogen atoms present I believe. Not fact just something I remember from so many years ago I could not even tell you.

 

[Maestro]

Whether we're calling it a vacuum, negative pressure or whatever, we're still all referring to the same thing using a different name, which is beside the point. And yes there actually is a small amount of vacuum in the tank which does not dissipate quickly. All I have to do is loosen the top a bit and the air bubbles start to rise up. Nothing else, just unscrewing the top a bit. Take out the o-rings at the top and see the difference you get with no seal.

 

[SteveS45]

There is no vacuum there is a pressure differential at the most. To achieve a vacuum in a tank is impossible. The air bubbles you see is you unscrewing the top pulling air in backwards through the coil.

 

[Bunnykiller]

the vacuum that is being considered in this application is the same as the method water stays in the water cooler bottle ( the 2 or 5 gallon blue plastic type)... when one allows water to fill a cup, air will bubble into the bottle. When vaping a "closed" tank system, one can see small bubbles form in the juice as the wick "refills". To keep the water in the bottle, a slight vacuum is created due to gravity and when the vacuum exceeds the capacity of the weight of the water, it will "suck" air into the bottle if the opening has some contact with air

 

[Bunnykiller]

Unfortunately it is impossible to remove top of top coil clearo and vape.
Also, what about alcohol burner? It keeps going without any help of negative pressure.

you have a wicking condition, the tank normally isnt sealed completely, alcohol evaporates easily and will in some cases pressurize the tank to aid in flow if the wick is sealing the tank ( thats why one should never fill the burner completely full)

 

[SteveS45]

There is no vacuum in a water cooler now you are dealing with a gravity feed system and the water being displaced is replaced by air.

 

[Bunnykiller]

There is no vacuum in a water cooler now you are dealing with a gravity feed system and the water being displaced is replaced by air.

pop a hole in the "top" of the cooler bottle and see what happens... Ill bet the water level doesnt stay the same

or even better yet, try filling a Kayfun with the top off without flooding the coil chamber

 

[SteveS45]

How can a Kayfun have a vacuum with the top off? A vacuum can only be created in an airtight container.

A water cooler works like this:
Pressure. The water level inside reaches the end of bottle, and the pressure is equalized. No flow happens until you use the cooler, and lower the water level in the reservoir. It only pours out of the bottle until it is equalized again.

The water creates an air tight seal around the rim, and the inside of the bottle is nearly a vacuum (not much air above the water inside the bottle). Once the reservoir lowers and exposes the end of the bottle to air, the pressure of the water trying to come out wins, and the air pocket is forced up through the bottle, into the top. Once the level equalizes, the water stops flowing again.

 

[Eskie]

pop a hole in the "top" of the cooler bottle and see what happens... Ill bet the water level doesnt stay the same

If the cooler bottle is on the stand? Well, nothing as there's a valve at the bottom stopping any flow. If you open that valve (push the little blue tab down) water will fill you glass, or floor if you didn't bother with a glass. If there is a hole in the top of the cooler bottle, it will not "bubble" to equalize pressure above the water level to the top (bottom upside down) of the bottle.

 

[beckdg]

If the cooler bottle is on the stand? Well, nothing as there's a valve at the bottom stopping any flow. If you open that valve (push the little blue tab down) water will fill you glass, or floor if you didn't bother with a glass. If there is a hole in the top of the cooler bottle, it will not "bubble" to equalize pressure above the water level to the top (bottom upside down) of the bottle.

There's no valve on the bottle.

The water in the stand itself seals the top of the bottle.

Poke a hole and no matter what you do with the valves in the stand, that bottle will most definitely empty. Every time.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

There is no vacuum there is a pressure differential at the most. To achieve a vacuum in a tank is impossible. The air bubbles you see is you unscrewing the top pulling air in backwards through the coil.

So you agree with AT that capillary action is a significantly greater force than the pressure differential in terms of wicking in an enclosed tank?

Because as I read it, that's the point of this thread.

Tapatyped

 

[Bunnykiller]

I guess one needs to define vacuum in this situation... basically any pressure differential in a negative sense as compared to ambient pressure is considered a vacuum... not a total vacuum but its the start of one

 

[Eskie]

There's no valve on the bottle.

The water in the stand itself seals the top of the bottle.

Poke a hole and no matter what you do with the valves in the stand, that bottle will most definitely empty. Every time.

Tapatyped

There's a valve on the stand. I'm not sure what we're talking about.

5 gallon bottle of water. Turn it upside down, place in stand, spike at bottom of stand punches hole in cap, press blue lever, valve opens, water comes out, release blue lever, water stops coming out. Just about every time unless the lever is busted.

 

[Deryan3]

side note: this has been a fantastic read because each person has posted in a conversational context, no flareups or harsh tones injected in the posts which makes this an awesome read sorry to derail.

 

[MMW]

side note: this has been a fantastic read because each person has posted in a conversational context, no flareups or harsh tones tones injected in the posts which makes this an awesome read sorry to derail.

Agreed. Well done.

 

[Maestro]

Ok, I took a kayfun 4 (which I despise) removed the deck and filled the tank with water. When I turned it back over...........the water stayed in the tank. It stayed there until I either turned it on its side or loosened off the top. Then it emptied in a second. So, yes there is definitely a vacuum (or whatever term you prefer) in the tank and wicking is irrelevant.

 

[beckdg]

There's a valve on the stand. I'm not sure what we're talking about.

5 gallon bottle of water. Turn it upside down, place in stand, spike at bottom of stand punches hole in cap, press blue lever, valve opens, water comes out, release blue lever, water stops coming out. Just about every time unless the lever is busted.

Never seen that kind in 30ish years of replacing those jugs.

All the ones I've seen, you rip the cap off, flip the jug in and the reservoir fills to the cap level after putting the jug on.

Tapatyped

 

[skoony]

I agree with @Alien Traveler. The use of the term vacuum has no meaning.
There is a slight change in pressure before, during and after use but is is
so slight it shouldn't have any real affect unless of course your going from sea
level to 5000 ft above sea level post haste. Air has to get back into the tank
to keep it running more or less correctly.

I use iclear 16's. The drip tip lines up to the nipple on top of the atomizer
it is not air tight. It doesn't have to be as one doesn't fill the tank high enough to
to be an issue in most cases.


Regards
Mike

 

[englishmick]

pop a hole in the "top" of the cooler bottle and see what happens... Ill bet the water level doesnt stay the same

or even better yet, try filling a Kayfun with the top off without flooding the coil chamber

I wondered about how this all worked when I first started vaping. Someone explained it to me this way. Assume you set up a tank with no wick, since the wick complicates the theory. Then drill a hole in the top of a tank. At that point there would be nothing to stop the liquid level equalizing between the tank and the coil chamber. It would happen slowly because the juice channels are quite small and the juice is quite thick, but it would happen after a few minutes.

What stops it is the air pressure balance. There isn't actually a vacuum in the top of the tank when it is just sitting. The pressure there might be very slightly less than outside air pressure due to the weight of the liquid. But if the liquid started running down into the coil chamber that would tend to reduce the pressure in the top of the tank. which would result in higher pressure in the coil chamber than in the top of the tank. That would have the effect of pushing back on the juice and stopping it from flowing from the tank to the chamber. If you allow air to access the top of the tank, like if you have a missing o-ring, then the juice will be able to flow to the chamber and the tank floods, which is what happens.

That all makes sense to me. I never did figure out where the air bubbles come from that you see going up into the tank. And I never figured out how the pressure effect interacts with the wick.

This is an interesting thread and I'm looking forward to seeing what else comes up here.

 

[Alien Traveler]

So you agree with AT that capillary action is a significantly greater force than the pressure differential in terms of wicking in an enclosed tank?

Because as I read it, that's the point of this thread.

Tapatyped

No, you are wrong. Point of this thread is to discuss. Whether capillary action or pressure have leading role cannot be proved in the thread. We just do not know. But they work in the same direction.