2 Cats Died 2 Months Apart From Chemical Inhalation

[zapped]

How long have you owned the townhouse? Reason Im asking is because Ive heard that if someone makes crystal .... in a building it can cause serious issue to people and pets for years. Doesnt even have to be your townhome but one next to it. Definitely worth having checked out.

I can understand your concerns, I would be upset right now too but youre jumping to a lot of conclusions and making blanket statements about vaping as if you were an expert instead of asking questions of those here with more experience.

Once again I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that none of my pets are having any issues and Ive vaped 6ml a day for over a year with my wife vaping 2ml a day for 9 months. I have two dogs and two cats that are in perfect health.

I really hope you get to the bottom of this soon and that this thread can be closed with a happy end ending.

 

[rothenbj]

"I have no idea how this escaped me, but a year ago, we got a new entertainment center - oak stained in black. It was made to order and when it came and there was a strong smell. I remember the smell being of wood; my husband remembers smelling the stain."

Is the entertainment truly oak (which would be real, real expensive) or laminated compressed board, Sometimes it's hard to tell unless you know the difference. I volunteered at a thrift store what got a lot of high end ($$$) furniture that either had minor damage or was being discontinued and hadn't sold so they donated it. There were pieces that cost thousands of dollars, but upon close examination it was all fancy compressed wood, stuff I> wouldn't have spent that kind of money for.

Formaldehyde is commonly used in creating the compressed boards. Something else to worry you about. Hopefully your bird will remain fine getting it out of your home and it's probably good to take a break at the hotel until you get some answers. You really should press your nicquid vendor on flavors also since it has you concerned.

 

[patkin]

"A little bad news - I spoke with a toxicologist from the state health department and he did a lot of research and sent me back a very detailed email about everything he found out about e-cigs from scientific studies. He found one study of pneumonitis (inflammation of the lungs) and re-occurrence after using them again. Cougar had inflammation of the lungs. He also said reported emissions show chemicals which are closely related to diacetyl (look up popcorn lung). This guy spent a lot of his time trying to help me today, which I am very grateful for. He also researched the company that came to do the testing and is going to get back to me about the reliability of the lab doing the results (this is all on his own without me even asking)."

The study I think referred to has been talked about here on the Forum if you do a search. "Pneumonitis" like any other "itis" is a catch-all term just simply meaning "Inflammation" in some part of the lung.... doesn't mean much without the specific cause of it. As in, "conjuctivitis" just means inflammation of the eye tissues.. not much meaning without knowing if its from an organism or something squirted in it that inflammed the tissue.

I doubt anyone is putting diacetyl in juces or flavorings anymore precisely because of the "popcorn lung" developed in those working in the butter-flavoring plants (used to make popcorn.) Juice mixers and flavoring manufacturers stopped using it as a even though the FDA still allows its use. Used to be used in some bakery/creamy juices to give it the rich buttery texture mainly. You can read about that here too but probably meaningless since the statement was "closely related." What does that mean? Is there a way you can ask him what that "closely related" ingredient is being used in... its being manufactured and so used in something we eat... right?

At any rate, based on the autopsy with a vet actually seeing the condition of the lungs, to my mind, being a doctor he would be able to recognize "popcorn lung" if you think breathing in a substance "closely related" warrants a call to discuss what was said to you.

I hope you'll let us know as some will be concerned now about the possibility of something "closely related" to diacetyl in their juices whether they vape any creamy textures or not. Personally I'm not. I'm glad the person you spoke with was so kind an helpful but, as I read it, the information was pretty generalized. As I said, I think if you do a search here you'll find some much deeper information on what he was talking about.... however, you'll need the name of that "closely related" substance.

 

[Nermal]

We had Nicor out here to check for gas (even though I found out it isn't even toxic - it can kill you by blowing you up, but not otherwise) and the fire department came out and checked for carbon monoxide again. They did a very thorough test, even turning everything on and testing. It all came out fine.
!

This is clearly not related to the current issue, but that is just wrong and I hope you didn't get it from the gas company. Natural gas is primarily composed of methane gas, and is quite toxic.

 

[Julie W]

Agree with you Krysti on the oak staining & air fresheners (creosote -phenols )are very toxic to cats,
air-fresheners are also not advised around kitties. Just for info essential oils,are a no- no too,most of the toxicity is created by the phenols they contain.
One of my old cats was prescribed an inhalant type E.O for congestion,I queried this with the vet & asked her weren't phenols considered toxic to cats,she said yes they were & I pointed out that the inhalant contained certain E. Oils with phenols,she checked her books & low & behold, she didn't sell it me needless to say.
So hard to know, and hope you can get to the bottom of this,but I don't believe it's anything to do with vaping now.

 

[vapero]

if the furniture is particle board and has the look of wood then it is laminated and won't have that stain smell you said, it must be plywood or solid wood

 

[Sdh]

OP natural gas can be toxic. They (gas company) will tell you anything. I would have a private plumber come out to inspect your lines.

Just some reading if your game.

AFH LIBRARY - The Dangers of Natural Gas
P.S. My family was exposed to a natural gas leak in our home. We just finished building the house. One month later (around) we started noticing we were dizzy, disorientated and having a hard time breathing. The gas company and the plumber refused to take responsibility in the situation.
Some of the links are okay. Just a generalization of what some people go thru.

 

[RosaJ]

If anyone tells you, I don't care who, that natural gas doesn't kill you, all you have to do is tell them to kneel down in front of your oven, turn the pilot off and have them stick their heads in there as you turn it on. Natural gas will kill, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Duh...

 

[krysti]

This is clearly not related to the current issue, but that is just wrong and I hope you didn't get it from the gas company. Natural gas is primarily composed of methane gas, and is quite toxic.

The Nicor gas man himself told me that. Weird.

 

[krysti]

If anyone tells you, I don't care who, that natural gas doesn't kill you, all you have to do is tell them to kneel down in front of your oven, turn the pilot off and have them stick their heads in there as you turn it on. Natural gas will kill, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Duh...

Good point.

 

[krysti]

UPDATE:

I am sure everything I have mentioned so far did not help my kitties. Throughout all this I have learned so much more about a cat's and bird's health and safety that I wish I had known before. On our way home today to clean and air the place out, we stopped and bought all pet safe cleaning products (to my surprise, they actually work well too!).

When we got home, my husband used the restroom and as an automatic reflex picked up the air freshener and sprayed it. He came out and I instantly smelled it. I'm freaking out because we are trying to get rid of anything that could irritate lungs and that stuff is extremely strong... and then it clicked. I started researching the product, Citrus Magic (Ingredients: Citrus oil), and sure enough it is toxic to cats. D-limonene is a citrus oil. Here is an article about what it did to a dog from a groomer using it in a shampoo and a cat who got septicemia from it. Incidentally, I got the actual pathologist's report on Cougar and her guesses were chemical inhalation OR septicemia. In his case, I'd guess it was both.

Dog almost dies from reaction to shampoo

Citrus Magic even has products specifically for use with litter boxes and people have written reviews that their cats have died after using them.

I am so ticked off. I can't believe all the ridiculous warnings companies have to put on products, but yet, they don't have to put a warning of stuff that is toxic to pets? Even worse, can sell pet products that are toxic to pets?

So then I look up if it is toxic to birds... it is NOT. That explains why the bird was fine. So then what happened to the bird last Wednesday? When I looked up citrus oil and birds, I found out although that's not toxic, tea tree oil highly is. My husband on Wednesday switched out our Air Wick plug in with Essential Oils and he put in a different fragrance. I would bet money one of the oils was tea tree. I called Air Wick to find out the ingredients and all they would tell me is "fragrance and perfumes". Really? That's all you will say? It's proprietary information and they will only give it out if it is requested on a doctor's letterhead. Problem solved; my doctor is going to write a letter for me requesting it.

My Jordi girl is still doing fine at my mom's. We have now gotten rid of all essential oils, all fragrances, cleaned with pet safe products, aired out the place and are running our air purifier with all fresh filters. We are looking forward to Jordi coming home, but want to wait till we can keep an eye on her just to make sure. I've missed 2 1/2 days of work during all of this and can't take any more time off this week, otherwise, I'd have her home right now!

Today, before I learned all of this, I had my chest x-ray done. I'm curious to see the results after 2 1/2 years of vaping. I will share the results with you when I get them, which should be tomorrow.

Thank you again for all your responses, even the ones who were not so happy I was concerned about the vaping. Believe me, I love vaping too and can't even imagine giving it up, but I had to look at it as a possibility along with everything else. I don't want to ruin this, but after reading about the effects of essential oils and knowing that some, if not all, juices contains them, I still can't help wondering if they are emitted on exhale and what that might possibly due to pets long term. If anyone can shed light on that for me, please do. Having said that, I am convinced vaping did not kill my cats or almost kill my bird. I also know I feel better vaping than smoking (and smell better too). And, my mom's severe hacking cough went away less than 2 days of switching from cigarettes to electronic cigarettes.

To my beloved kitties: I am so sorry for not being a more educated parent, but I hope you know how much I loved/love you and that I would never give up until I figured out what happened to you. I hope you will take comfort in knowing I will make it a mission to educate as many others as I can. And I really hope, Cougar, you are finally letting your guard down and showing Saber how much you do love him!!

I will still let you all know what the results of the chemical testing are.

 

[sachavaca]

yeah heck taught me what to introduce into my neighbors cats diet too.

 

[Nermal]

When we got home, my husband used the restroom and as an automatic reflex picked up the air freshener and sprayed it. He came out and I instantly smelled it. I'm freaking out because we are trying to get rid of anything that could irritate lungs and that stuff is extremely strong... and then it clicked. I started researching the product, Citrus Magic (Ingredients: Citrus oil), and sure enough it is toxic to cats. D-limonene is a citrus oil. Here is an article about what it did to a dog from a groomer using it in a shampoo and a cat who got septicemia from it. Incidentally, I got the actual pathologist's report on Cougar and her guesses were chemical inhalation OR septicemia. In his case, I'd guess it was both.

Dog almost dies from reaction to shampoo

Citrus Magic even has products specifically for use with litter boxes and people have written reviews that their cats have died after using them.

I have three cats, so thanks for passing that along.

 

[alisa1970]

I didn't have the unfortunate circumstances you did, but I had a 14 year old cat who became mysteriously ill and died within 6 months. Up until then she had been very healthy, and no vets could really figure out what it was (I went to two specialists and spent over $3K on her during that time). Then the other one got sick and passed 9 months later. That one we knew what it was; she was an insulin-dependent diabetic, and had complications from a simple out-patient surgery.

When I decided to get 2 new kitties, I determined also to be as aware as possible to what is toxic to cats. Even had my landscaper put in only non-toxic plants in our new yard, as mine are nibblers. No plants in the house, no toxic cleaners or detergents, and very sparing use of anything with herb oils for cleaning. I do use Tea Tree Oil but only highly diluted and only if the cats aren't going to be around it when it's wet or still fragrant.

Anyway, I do appreciate your pain, and your kitties were well loved even if you didn't know what was hurting them (and really, you still don't know for sure that it was any of those things). I applaud your dedication to your fur and feather babies. Many people don't really consider their pets with that much regard. As a fellow pet momma, my heart goes out to you.

 

[cags]

vinegar is a great thing to clean with

 

[alisa1970]

vinegar is a great thing to clean with

I use that on my hardwoods--cuts grease like nobody's business! I order from a company that makes a surface cleaner that mixes plant based alcohol and vinegar, and you add water to make the spray. It cleans shiny surfaces great and doesn't smell like you just finished dipping eggs for easter. They do a whole bunch of other stuff like that and the stuff works better than the commercial cleaners you buy in the store (like 409 or Spot-Shot). I haven't been down the cleaners/shampoo/soap aisle in the store for 3 years.

 

[MustangSallie]

UPDATE:

...

Thank you again for all your responses, even the ones who were not so happy I was concerned about the vaping. Believe me, I love vaping too and can't even imagine giving it up, but I had to look at it as a possibility along with everything else. I don't want to ruin this, but after reading about the effects of essential oils and knowing that some, if not all, juices contains them, I still can't help wondering if they are emitted on exhale and what that might possibly due to pets long term. If anyone can shed light on that for me, please do. Having said that, I am convinced vaping did not kill my cats or almost kill my bird. I also know I feel better vaping than smoking (and smell better too). And, my mom's severe hacking cough went away less than 2 days of switching from cigarettes to electronic cigarettes.

...

I'm very sorry for your loss and I hope you find the cause shortly.

Regarding most if not all e-liquids containing essential oils, I don't believe that is true. Our liquids contain flavorings, which are not the same thing as essential oils.

 

[MustangSallie]

vinegar is a great thing to clean with

+1 on the vinegar. It's the only thing I use on my floors. With 3 dogs in the house we don't like to take chances with any store bought cleaners on any surfaces they come in contact with.

 

[RosaJ]

I'm very sorry for your loss and I hope you find the cause shortly.

Regarding most if not all e-liquids containing essential oils, I don't believe that is true. Our liquids contain flavorings, which are not the same thing as essential oils.

Ditto this! If your eliquid contains essential oils, DO NOT vape!!! The only ones that could contain oil is cinnamon and some citrus flavors. But remember that the percentage in the eliquid is minimal. Another fallacy is that they contain diacetyl and that is also not true. Back in 2009 there were a handful of liquids that were tested and one or two (don't quote me, not sure) that contained diacetyl. Since then vendors have done away with it if they used it at all.

If you want to look more in depth, check the CASAA website.

 

[Coelli]

+1 on the vinegar. It's the only thing I use on my floors. With 3 dogs in the house we don't like to take chances with any store bought cleaners on any surfaces they come in contact with.

I have 4 dogs in the house (3 of our own plus a foster) and accidents are a near-daily occurrance. Good thing most of the floors are tile! I was buying the enzymatic cleaners and finally just went with straight vinegar and water for the tile and save the expensive stuff for the rare but still occasional carpet cleanup.