A Challenge to all suppliers

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katink

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Apr 24, 2008
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Also, Sedansa will not disclose what they ARE using... and that fact means I won't be buying as long as they keep that up, just like many others won't be (it seems, from what I heard/read, not to be VG either... so what then?? - I am not trusting anyone with this kind of non-disclosure policy as to the main/base ingredient used!)
 

Satire

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PPG is Butoxy poly propylene glycol, not the stuff we use. I don't know much about PPG but pure PG is about as safe as you can get for internal use (can cause skin and mucous membrane dryness/irritation but nothing serious even in high doses). It is rapidly broken down into lactic acid, which is processed by the liver very easily and efficiently (it is in your bloodstream all the time, it's part of anaerobic muscle respiration). Its long-term exposure (via vapor/aerosol) safety has been very thoroughly investigated in multiple studies with no major health concerns (rats exposed to very high vapor concentrations for 6 hours a day 5 days a week for 2 years showed only minor mucous membrane dryness/damage, mostly at the tips of their noses, and even that healed within a short period after exposure stopped, upon dissection no mutagenic effects or organ damage was found. PM me your e-mail if you would like the full report).

As for china, they seem to be mass producing the stuff, meaning they probably have a manufacturing process that they use every time (it would cost infinitely more to have an educated person revise the process than to pay the peasant workers to continue pumping it out), and why would they redesign their process if it is already working? Unskilled labor costs nothing in China. Of course we all know China doesn't have the best track record for production control, but hazardous product contamination (that wasn't intentionally used in the first place) is still a VERY rare occurrence when you consider how much stuff is constantly being mass-produced there (%age of dangerous products vs total production is very very low), so this doesn't worry me any more than any other consumable product made in China. Of course testing every single batch would be ideal, but the cost would be rather extreme for an operation like Steve's, and if he isn't making a profit then puresmoker won't be in business anyway, so a one time chemical analysis is good enough for me (you may disagree, but if I had a small website selling supplies and someone told me I have to spend a large portion of my profits testing every single batch when they are made using the same process every time I would tell them to go suck one). Besides, I don't know of a single company, even in the US, that has every single product they make in an assembly line professionally analyzed, perhaps periodically to make sure everything is still going smoothe but never every single product, their overhead costs would be through the roof.

oh and for the "not a lot of money to be made in e-cigs," since I joined this forum on the 1st of november, the number of members has multiplied rapidly, Steve has employees helping him with the ever-increasing workload, and njoy e-cigs have been spotted in retail store isles, gas stations, and malls all over the US. This is a rapidly growing industry that is already in the retail market and shows no signs of stopping (yet). At the same time though, a single death or diagnosed illness that is attributed to e-smoking (whether true or not) can bring that all crashing down in a heartbeat, but if no health concerns are raised, e-smoking may have a bright future since the retail market now has our backs (local governments are getting tax revenue from it and no politician in his right mind would crusade against a harmless product, pissing off registered voters and campaign contributors, though if there was a major public health concern he would be seen as a defender of public safety and thus be as relentless as the anti-drug and anti-smoking movements). Who knows, I'm no economist and I'm no politician, I just want to know what is in the stuff.
 

LaceyUnderall

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It matters because:

B. Many people who are concerned about government regulation or banning believe that the untested "liquid from China" is just asking for a crackdown. Even if it is only used as an excuse because of losing tobacco tax dollars.

Yeah... well as soon as the FDA steps up and does their job securing the cleanliness of American factories, then I will let Americans have that argument. Until then, sorry.

Our kid was poisoned with Salmonella TWO years ago by Con Agra and NOTHING has been done. It was narrowed down to unclean facilities that hadn't been walked through by the FDA in over 2 years. Those guys in China have been tried and two are scheduled to be put to death here shortly. Talk about quick response.

I remind everyone who asks about the "China Status" with the liquid and they all provide the same response: "Oh. Ok. Send me 50 carts and 2 bottles of e-liquid please." It isn't China. It is bad people doing shady things. The melamine fiasco has put Chinese manufacturing on red alert... literally.
 

Jammi98

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Dec 9, 2008
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It matters because:

B. Many people who are concerned about government regulation or banning believe that the untested "liquid from China" is just asking for a crackdown. Even if it is only used as an excuse because of losing tobacco tax dollars.

Sorry Kate. I used the term "liquid from China" because it can be used by a regulatory or governmental agency that might be motivated to ban e-cigs (which has been brought up in other threads). It was not meant to imply that China is the only country whose citizens might cut corners in quality. God knows it's happened enough here in the US with other products.

Yeah... well as soon as the FDA steps up and does their job securing the cleanliness of American factories, then I will let Americans have that argument....

It isn't China. It is bad people doing shady things.

Lacey I think one apology for using that phrase in this thread is enough. If you had read a little further, you would have seen my apology to Kate, and my explanation why I used the phrase. You would also have seen that I agree with your point.
 

smokum

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Funny you should ask that Keltrey....

My wife and I have a mutual friend who manages in the local university lab here in Ottawa, Canada, that tests chemicals on mice/rats.

While she was visiting the house the other day I was digging to find out some information on whether they had ever done any testing with PG or nicotine effects, and if so, how would I go about getting copies of the research.

As well, (and because of our recent conversations lately regarding testing), I asked how I would go about "requesting" or "suggesting" testing on a soon to be popular liquid that is inhaled via vaporisation containing both PG, Nicotine, and flavor essences.

She appeared interested and told me she would look into it and let me know, but I don't hold my breath on anything being easy or straight forward in the approach.

I'll probably be seeing her again next weekend, so we'll see if I can make any progress and offer my result when I hear back.

VapeOn,
Greg
 

LaceyUnderall

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Lacey I think one apology for using that phrase in this thread is enough. If you had read a little further, you would have seen my apology to Kate, and my explanation why I used the phrase. You would also have seen that I agree with your point.


I wasn't looking for an apology from you or anyone. I just wanted to reiterate the point that American manufacturing is flawed as well. It really "grinds my gears" that we are so quick to place blame on China when if it weren't for China, we wouldn't have a lot of what we have for as cheaply as we have it.

"The world needs its ditch diggers too!" The Honorable Judge Smails
 

Keltrey

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Dec 28, 2008
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Funny you should ask that Keltrey....

My wife and I have a mutual friend who manages in the local university lab here in Ottawa, Canada, that tests chemicals on mice/rats.

While she was visiting the house the other day I was digging to find out some information on whether they had ever done any testing with PG or nicotine effects, and if so, how would I go about getting copies of the research.

As well, (and because of our recent conversations lately regarding testing), I asked how I would go about "requesting" or "suggesting" testing on a soon to be popular liquid that is inhaled via vaporisation containing both PG, Nicotine, and flavor essences.

She appeared interested and told me she would look into it and let me know, but I don't hold my breath on anything being easy or straight forward in the approach.

I'll probably be seeing her again next weekend, so we'll see if I can make any progress and offer my result when I hear back.

VapeOn,
Greg

Awesome! Thank you for keeping us updated. :)
 

Daniel@P.S.

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Jan 21, 2009
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In case you guys and gals haven't seen Welcome to Right to Vape my girl is starting some great pro-activist threads and getting together a community for us to start a plan.
If you have a second to look it over it's in the forum section. Especially If you are a mover and a shaker in your community or would just like to contribute your thoughts and actions to help further our E-cig lifestyle. I know she didn't want to toot her own horn so i'm just an informant.
 
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