FDA A compromise with the FDA

[wv2win]

It just seems Strange that we Reach the Epoch that Every e-Cigarette user has Feared (but knew would happen) and there Doesn't seem to be much of a Response from the Trade Organizations or OEM's.

Seems like there is More Talk about the Possibility that Reynolds may seek to acquire Lorillard/Blu.

http://www.cspnet.com/category-mana...es/reynolds-lorillard-merger-could-create-new

Since ECF is not a Trade organization forum, it's irrelevant. Since this is a consumer driven forum, it seems Prudent that we concentrate on what we as consumers can most effectively do to keep vaping available in multiple forms.

Those on ECF who are Against encouraging all vapers to join and support CASAA, the only consumer driven vaping non-profit organization, but instead lament Trade organization inaction, are not supporting a viable alternative for vaping Consumers.

If you think that the e-Liquid Trade Organizations are Irrelevant, or that their Motivation to Influence FDA Policy does Not Effect ALL e-Cigarette Users, then you are Mistaken.

Like it or Not, these Trade Organizations have a Direct Connection with the FDA. And Ignoring them is akin to Sticking your Head In The Sand.

It is easy to know when one of your many misleading posts has been correctly challenged, because you resort to "cherry picking" comments from my reply in hopes of misdirecting us from the larger point of the reply.

1. We are consumers, not business owners.
2. We need to encourage "vaping consumers" to join and support our consumer advocacy organization: CASAA
3. Trade organizations are in place to support their business members. Let them determine what is best for their Paying members. We are not ignoring them, we are not Paying members of their group.
4. I did not say that Trade organizations are irrelevant, only that Your comments are irrelevant.
4. You have been consistent in not encouraging others to support our consumer advocacy organization.
5. Why don't we concentrate on what We - Consumers, can more effectively do as Consumers to challenge these regulations. We can do that collectively by supporting our Consumer organization: CASAA

 

[zoiDman]

You can't fight or litigate unless you can prove you've been harmed or a loss. How can you litigate something that's just a proposal?

It will get thrown out! No intelligent attorney would even consider it until its been passed.

We have to See what the FDA actually says After the Public Comment Section is over.

And I'm not sure we need to Wait Until After the FDA Effectively Destroys the e-Cigarette/e-Liquid Market as we know it.

 

[zoiDman]

It is easy to know when one of your many misleading posts has been correctly challenged, because you resort to "cherry picking" comments from my reply in hopes of misdirecting us from the larger point of the reply.

1. We are consumers, not business owners.
2. We need to encourage "vaping consumers" to join and support our consumer advocacy organization: CASAA
3. Trade organizations are in place to support their business members. Let them determine what is best for their Paying members. We are not ignoring them, we are not Paying members of their group.
4. You have been consistent in not encouraging others to support our consumer advocacy organization.
5. Why don't we concentrate on what We - Consumers, can more effectively do as Consumers to challenge these regulations. We can do that collectively by supporting Consumer organization: CASAA

So are you saying that we should Not Be Concern with that the e-Liquid Trade Organizations are Doing or Not Doing?

 

[wv2win]

So are you saying that we should Not Be Concern with that the e-Liquid Trade Organizations are Doing or Not Doing?

I obviously didn't say that one way or the other.

Are you still Against encouraging vapers to support CASAA in their fight against draconian regulations and bans?

 

[zoiDman]

We both know that I have Never told a Single Member Not To Join CASAA. And I have asked you Repeatedly to post where I have. But You Never have. Because you Can't.

You just keep Trolling up Threads.

And think Derailing a Another Thread is OK if you can make Cheap Shots to those you Don't Like.

 

[DC2]

EDIT: Wait, need to do some research before saying that...

 

[DC2]

We have to See what the FDA actually says After the Public Comment Section is over.

And I'm not sure we need to Wait Until After the FDA Effectively Destroys the e-Cigarette/e-Liquid Market as we know it.

We almost certainly won't hear from the FDA after the comment period is over until the final rule has passed through OMB and is put before Congress...
http://www.cspnet.com/category-mana...articles/nine-step-rulemaking-process-and-fda

In Step Seven, the FDA will prepare what is known as the Final Rule, which may add or delete proposed regulations based on comments received from the public. Then, in Step Eight, the OMB once again reviews the Final Rule provided that the new rule is deemed to be significant. The last step, Step Nine, involves the publication of the Final Rule in the Federal Register, which will include an effective date for the new regulations. In addition, the FDA will need to submit the Final Rule to Congress and the Government Accountability Office (GAO) before the regulations can take effect.

 

[Jman8]

In addition, the FDA will need to submit the Final Rule to Congress

I wonder if Congress gets a say in what 'final rule' looks like?

Like could congress person, say at last moment, put in exemptions that change the rule, and what FDA must then go with?

Could we get a Congress person who would slip in wording that may be 'not so easy to understand' what is being said exactly, but would exempt certain devices (i.e. all big mods) from Final Rule?

Keep in mind, I am cigalike user myself, so I might not benefit from this, but as most in the federal government seem to be clueless on this front, then perhaps Congress offers us ways to manipulate final rule, and ways that depending on how it is worded, might just float right on by everyone (in Washington) without a fight or debate.

And assuming they are totally clueless, then perhaps we could slip by a whole lot without them knowing. Like "of course have this Rule apply to eCig regulations, but not to any device that has a heated coil element." Admittedly, from our vape culture that would seem like how could they not know that is intrinsic to an eCig/vaporizer, but reality is they may not know!

Bottom line to what I'm getting at is perhaps, just maybe, Congress (even one or two people in entire Senate or House) could exempt things that FDA proposes to Congress as Final Rule.

 

[zoiDman]

We almost certainly won't hear from the FDA after the comment period is over until the final rule has passed through OMB and is put before Congress...
http://www.cspnet.com/category-mana...articles/nine-step-rulemaking-process-and-fda

I just don't know how Transparent the FDA will be on this to the General Public.

And I'm not sure How Much Information can be Obtained from the FDA via Inside Channels?

 

[AndriaD]

There has been some flap about that last petition that was presented to the White House, and actually I agree with some of that flap, because the president has very little control or influence on what the FDA does. The lawmakers, however, are another matter entirely, and their influence could be either damaging or helpful to our cause. The race for this year's senate election is already underway, as you've probably already realized from all the stupid commercials on TV, and I have chosen the candidate for GA's seat that I intend to support, but I don't know his stance on this e-cigarette debacle, so just now I sent him a message on his facebook page. Some of the preliminary remarks about Obamacare are irrelevant to this discussion, so disregard that please, but this is the message I sent, and I think other candidates from other states need to be asked this question:

When I heard on your last TV ad that you are going to try and get rid of that travesty Obamacare, you got my vote right then -- but there is one thing more I need to know, before I cast that vote -- where do you stand on e-cigarettes? I quit a 39 yr smoking habit using e-cigs, and I resent and abhor the disinformation campaign being waged against them; I only want to vote for the candidate who can see how helpful e-cigs are to those struggling with a decades-long cigarette habit -- the Big Pharma remedies DON'T WORK, period -- but E-CIGARETTES WORK, they're not dangerous (as cigarettes are dangerous, as CHANTIX is dangerous), and they should not be persecuted just to keep fattening up the pockets of those with a vested interest in the status quo, death in a convenient 20-cigarette pack. Will you work to preserve the valuable asset that e-cigarettes are, or will you be like the other fatcats in Washington who just want to keep making money on DEATH?

I don't know if he'll answer, or if anyone on his staff will answer, but he at least will know that this is an important issue to someone who strongly favors his campaign.

If we want good laws, we have to elect those who are capable of making and passing them; if we keep electing the same old dinosaurs to office, nothing will change, and that is this candidate's (David Perdue) primary platform.

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

I wonder if Congress gets a say in what 'final rule' looks like?

Like could congress person, say at last moment, put in exemptions that change the rule, and what FDA must then go with?

Could we get a Congress person who would slip in wording that may be 'not so easy to understand' what is being said exactly, but would exempt certain devices (i.e. all big mods) from Final Rule?

...

I'm not an Expert on this.

But I believe the FDA answers to the Department of Health and Human Services Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius. And She in turn reports Directly to the Office of the President.

 

[wv2win]

I obviously didn't say that one way or the other.

Are you still Against encouraging vapers to support CASAA in their fight against draconian regulations and bans?

We both know that I have Never told a Single Member Not To Join CASAA. And I have asked you Repeatedly to post where I have. But You Never have. Because you Can't.

You just keep Trolling up Threads.

And think Derailing a Another Thread is OK if you can make Cheap Shots to those you Don't Like.

Another weak attempt at "misdirection".

Are you still Against Encouraging vapers to support CASAA????

 

[wv2win]

I'm not an Expert on this.

But I believe the FDA answers to the Department of Health and Human Services Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius. And She in turn reports Directly to the Office of the President.

Obviously, she resigned. The new head will be Sylvia Mathews Burwell.

 

[zoiDman]

Obviously, she resigned. The new head will be Sylvia Mathews Burwell.

She hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

[DC2]

I wonder if Congress gets a say in what 'final rule' looks like?

Like could congress person, say at last moment, put in exemptions that change the rule, and what FDA must then go with?

Could we get a Congress person who would slip in wording that may be 'not so easy to understand' what is being said exactly, but would exempt certain devices (i.e. all big mods) from Final Rule?

This is nothing but an educated guess...

I don't think that Congress can modify the regulations, only pass them or reject them.
I imagine that if they reject them they will tell the FDA why though.

Again, this is just a guess.

 

[zoiDman]

Another weak attempt at "misdirection".

...

Why don't you take your Trolling Someplace Else. You don't want to make any Contributions to this Thread. Just spread more of your Lies.

Your still Mad when I Posted that link to the Supporting Members Section. And that was a Long Time Ago.

Let it Go.

 

[classwife]

Cool down please

 

[wv2win]

There has been some flap about that last petition that was presented to the White House, and actually I agree with some of that flap, because the president has very little control or influence on what the FDA does....................

I can't agree with you on this one, Andria. It is the President who appointed Mitch Zeller, lobbyist for the Big Pharm industry, to oversee the part of the FDA that just published their Deeming Regulations. It is no coincidence that the FDA's attack on vaping started in 2009.

 

[pamdis]

I wonder if Congress gets a say in what 'final rule' looks like?

Like could congress person, say at last moment, put in exemptions that change the rule, and what FDA must then go with?

Could we get a Congress person who would slip in wording that may be 'not so easy to understand' what is being said exactly, but would exempt certain devices (i.e. all big mods) from Final Rule?

Keep in mind, I am cigalike user myself, so I might not benefit from this, but as most in the federal government seem to be clueless on this front, then perhaps Congress offers us ways to manipulate final rule, and ways that depending on how it is worded, might just float right on by everyone (in Washington) without a fight or debate.

And assuming they are totally clueless, then perhaps we could slip by a whole lot without them knowing. Like "of course have this Rule apply to eCig regulations, but not to any device that has a heated coil element." Admittedly, from our vape culture that would seem like how could they not know that is intrinsic to an eCig/vaporizer, but reality is they may not know!

Bottom line to what I'm getting at is perhaps, just maybe, Congress (even one or two people in entire Senate or House) could exempt things that FDA proposes to Congress as Final Rule.

My understanding is that after the final rule is submitted to Congress, they have two choices:
1. inaction - which would allow the rule to go into effect
2. pass a Resolution of Disapproval - which would have to pass both houses and be signed by the president, and if passed and signed would overturn the rule.

So, we may have some leverage by contacting reps and especially those on committees overseeing FDA. We should submit copies of our FDA comments to them and otherwise contact them to tell them we won't support/vote for them if they don't work on our behalf to stop the rule.

Of course, one of my Senators is .... Durbin, but I will still include him in my lobbying efforts.


ETA: HA HA - ECF moderated out the first name of my senator. How appropriate.

 

[progg]

My understanding is that after the final rule is submitted to Congress, they have two choices:
1. inaction - which would allow the rule to go into effect
2. pass a Resolution of Disapproval - which would have to pass both houses and be signed by the president, and if passed and signed would overturn the rule.

So, we may have some leverage by contacting reps and especially those on committees overseeing FDA. We should submit copies of our FDA comments to them and otherwise contact them to tell them we won't support/vote for them if they don't work on our behalf to stop the rule.

Of course, one of my Senators is .... Durbin, but I will still include him in my lobbying efforts.


ETA: HA HA - ECF moderated out the first name of my senator. How appropriate.

https://energycommerce.house.gov/subcommittees/health#members