"A decision over e-cigarettes and 'vaping' imminent": Proposed bill - UK (1pm GMT 12 June 2013)

[Petrodus]

I just realized... medicines fall under Health Care, right? Well, Health Care is FREE in the UK...

E-smoking is here to stay !!

jtpjc is "the man"
He coined the phrase
"Its a fake cigarette...Even the smoke is fake"

 

[e-pipeman]

I just realized... medicines fall under Health Care, right? Well, Health Care is FREE in the UK...

In theory, yes. But let's say you need a prescription from the chemist - that would cost you over £7.50 per item unless you are on benefits (welfare). How about dental treatment? 85% of the charge is paid for by - the patient. That's how it is in England. Free, eh?

 

[jtpjc]

Damn. Foiled again. Glad to not live in the UK then.

 

[e-pipeman]

You don't know what you're missing....at least we've just been told what we might be missing...

 

[jSquared]

For all those who say ...
"Well, I actually support a number government regulations regarding e-liquids."
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "LIMITED" GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS.

But there is such a thing as self-regulation. Also, if "limited" government regulation didn't exist: tobacco and (to a lesser extent) alcohol would also cease to exist.

I do agree that the delay in the implementation of these regulations may allow the consumer base to grow to a point where the kind of regulation they're talking about here would upset far too many voters to be a sensible option for any elected government to choose to enforce.

JJ

 

[Petrodus]

Post on this topic in the Legislation forum
Click Here

 

[jSquared]

Post on this topic in the Legislation forum
Click Here

I already posted a link to that thread (Post #18). Actually - it was you who brought this thread back to life after I redirected people to the Legislation News forum, Petrodus!

This thread preceded the myriad of others that have since appeared, and provided a blow-by-blow account of the breaking news as it happened.

JJ

 

[Bugsy]

So dismayed. If the prices go up and the products become more difficult to get ( which will be the case ) I may as well go back to smoking real cigarets when the time comes. Been a non-smoker with ecigs for about seven years now. Wow, why has the UK government done this?

 

[Petrodus]

I already posted a link to that thread (Post #18). Actually - it was you who brought this thread back to life after I redirected people to the Legislation News forum, Petrodus!

This thread preceded the myriad of others that have since appeared, and provided a blow-by-blow account of the breaking news as it happened.

JJ

I saw your post #18 and only posted my post #26 because
I thought Bill's post in the Legislation forum was amusing
and at the same time very informative. Not everyone seeing
this thread is also following topics in the Legislation forum.

I think its a good idea to have this specific topic being discussed
here as well as in the Legislation forum. We're more lay-back here
in the Media and General News forum.


I'm not in the UK and thus not as familiar with the specifics as locals.
However, from what Bill wrote ... It appears nothing is going down
there regarding this subject...anytime soon.

 

[jSquared]

You've seen much more of this kind of thing than I have, Petrodus. I've only been vaping for about 18 months, and relatively little (with regard to regulation/legislation at such a high level) has actually happened during that time - until very recently.

I'm more worried about the precedent this will set rather than the short to medium term effects on the industry. There are some very interesting arguments/points of view beginning to appear over on the Legislation News forum. The classification of e-cigarettes as medical products in this proposed (as pointed out by Bill) regulation remains the biggest surprise of all - I don't think many of us in the UK really expected them to go down that particular road. Make no mistake: it is a real blow.

JJ

 

[Petrodus]

You've seen much more of this kind of thing than I have, Petrodus. I've only been vaping for about 18 months, and relatively little (with regard to regulation/legislation at such a high level) has actually happened during that time - until very recently.

I'm more worried about the precedent this will set rather than the short to medium term effects on the industry. There are some very interesting arguments/points of view beginning to appear over on the Legislation News forum. The classification of e-cigarettes as medical products in this proposed (as pointed out by Bill) regulation remains the biggest surprise of all - I don't think many of us in the UK really expected them to go down that particular road. Make no mistake: it is a real blow.

JJ

jSquared ...
You can worry yourself to death about what "might" happen in the future !!
I've been around for a while and have experienced many "gloom and doom"
"possible" scenarios.

I was around when the FDA was fighting to simply ban all e-cigarette sales.
They lost in court. Prior to losing in court...everyone here was in the fight
and taking a lot of anti-acids. Lots of Gloom and Doom discussions. After we won ...
everyone was doing their "happy dance".

I'm not an authority on all the various issues...Just an ECF discussion group member.
Bill Godshall, in my opinion, is "the man". If I were living in the UK ...
I would put a lot of stock and comfort in what Bill said ... LINK

Many of us have a Crystal Ball, however, not all of us see the same future images.
When I look into "MY" Crystal Ball ... I see a bright future for e-smokers.
That doesn't mean those opposed to e-smoking will vanish tomorrow ...
It just means...eventually, e-smoking will be reluctantly accepted by
those who oppose it today as self evident.

 

[DC2]

When I look into "MY" Crystal Ball ... I see a bright future for e-smokers.
That doesn't mean those opposed to e-smoking will vanish tomorrow ...
It just means...eventually, e-smoking will be reluctantly accepted by
those who oppose it today as self evident.

I have little doubt that someday that will be the case, but the question is how long.

There is a certain leafy green plant which can be smoked, and can be used as a loose analogy.
A long time ago there were movies made about the "madness" of smoking this plant.

Fast forward some 75 years and we find this plant becoming legal in more and more states.

Of course, this particular leafy green plant is also a mind-altering drug, so the analogy is not perfect by any means.
But nicotine has very large stigma attached to it as well, and there are many well-entrenched opponents.

I fear we may have to overcome that stigma before we'll be accepted, even reluctantly.

 

[AgentAnia]

Many of us have a Crystal Ball, however, not all of us see the same future images.
When I look into "MY" Crystal Ball ... I see a bright future for e-smokers.
That doesn't mean those opposed to e-smoking will vanish tomorrow ...
It just means...eventually, e-smoking will be reluctantly accepted by
those who oppose it today as self evident.

Maybe it's just me wanting desperately to find some improvement in the public attitude toward ecigs, but lately I'm seeing a distinct shift in the tenor of media articles. Eight months ago when I started getting involved, most newspaper articles and sound bites on tv were mostly rehashing of ANTZ and FDA propaganda, with opposing statements from the likes of CASAA all too few and far between. Lately, I'm noticing a lot more balanced presentations that include pro-vaping statements and mentions of research that supports the benefits of ecigs. More mention is being made of the increasing numbers of smokers who successfully switch to vaping. More and more I'm seeing THR mentioned in mainstream media. It's letting me feel a bit hopeful for the future.

 

[Spazmelda]

Maybe it's just me wanting desperately to find some improvement in the public attitude toward ecigs, but lately I'm seeing a distinct shift in the tenor of media articles. Eight months ago when I started getting involved, most newspaper articles and sound bites on tv were mostly rehashing of ANTZ and FDA propaganda, with opposing statements from the likes of CASAA all too few and far between. Lately, I'm noticing a lot more balanced presentations that include pro-vaping statements and mentions of research that supports the benefits of ecigs. More mention is being made of the increasing numbers of smokers who successfully switch to vaping. More and more I'm seeing THR mentioned in mainstream media. It's letting me feel a bit hopeful for the future.

I don't think it's your imagination. I've noticed it too, and I was wondering if it had something to do with big tobacco getting into the game. It seems that would make people more skeptical though, but maybe they've got their pr departments pulling some strings to get better press?

 

[AgentAnia]

I don't think it's your imagination. I've noticed it too, and I was wondering if it had something to do with big tobacco getting into the game. It seems that would make people more skeptical though, but maybe they've got their pr departments pulling some strings to get better press?

The past 2 weeks or so, definitely BT's PR machines working overtime. Skeptical? Maybe, given the public's ingrained distrust of BT. OTOH, I'm hoping it will serve to alert more smokers to the existance of ecigs and hopefully get a lot of them to try vaping.

But earlier on, I'm attributing at least part of the shift to CASAA, Bill Godshall, Greg Conlan, Mike Siegel, Carl Phillips, Dr. Farsalinos, and their many colleagues, who have been outspoken, articulate defenders of ecigs and smokeless tobacco alternatives and THR and who are being quoted in the mainstream media more and more. And being articulate and rational, they're serving as an increasingly effective foil to the hysterical ANTZ rants and junk science. I hope it's not just wishful thinking on my part that people are finally starting to pay attention and to question the validity of ANTZ propaganda where before they didn't.

 

[Petrodus]

I have little doubt that someday that will be the case, but the question is how long.

There is a certain leafy green plant which can be smoked, and can be used as a loose analogy.
A long time ago there were movies made about the "madness" of smoking this plant.

Fast forward some 75 years and we find this plant becoming legal in more and more states.

Of course, this particular leafy green plant is also a mind-altering drug, so the analogy is not perfect by any means.
But nicotine has very large stigma attached to it as well, and there are many well-entrenched opponents.

I fear we may have to overcome that stigma before we'll be accepted, even reluctantly.

Hi DC2 ...
We both know ... E-smoking is here to stay.
The eGo and MODs are here to stay.
How long will it be before much of the resistance to e-smoking dies off ??
I don't know ... but I suggest resistance dies off a little ... every day.

Old saying ...
Nothing is to big to die.
However, you and I know e-smoking is the exception.

The future for smoking .... is "E-smoking"
It PISSES OFF all those opposed to e-cigarettes
because they are beginning to accept there is nothing
they can do to stop it.

 

[rothenbj]

The past 2 weeks or so, definitely BT's PR machines working overtime. Skeptical? Maybe, given the public's ingrained distrust of BT. OTOH, I'm hoping it will serve to alert more smokers to the existance of ecigs and hopefully get a lot of them to try vaping.

But earlier on, I'm attributing at least part of the shift to CASAA, Bill Godshall, Greg Conlan, Mike Siegel, Carl Phillips, Dr. Farsalinos, and their many colleagues, who have been outspoken, articulate defenders of ecigs and smokeless tobacco alternatives and THR and who are being quoted in the mainstream media more and more. And being articulate and rational, they're serving as an increasingly effective foil to the hysterical ANTZ rants and junk science. I hope it's not just wishful thinking on my part that people are finally starting to pay attention and to question the validity of ANTZ propaganda where before they didn't.

The media smells money! Lost in the days of yesteryear was all that tobacco money. Now the big boys in BT are entering the playing field and major dollars are in play. The ANTZ have been living on some flimsy excuses and some shabby conclusion driven research when they had a couple of mid range players, a lot of mom and pops, and we pilgrims. Now everything is growing much bigger. That's the good, The bad- the big boys, in any industry, don't play nice.

 

[kristin]

to CASAA...Greg Conlan,

For the record, Greg (Conley) is CASAA - he's the legislative director.