E 'cigarette' in the news uk

[Hotwire]

I think these days more people are open minded, but we're far off the mark just yet.

Exactly. The last thing the vaping world needs is this 'you'll take this from me over my dead body jackwagon! I'm not bending down to 'the man' attitude.

Aaron you're nitpicking - the analogy stands - slow steady, respectful and not druggy looking is how we in my opinion need to be represented.

One thing I wonder is between now and the 2016 re-classing as a medical product - what are they going to be doing? Me-hopes lots of studying and testing, but where will the money come from and who will be doing it?

I'm 99.9% sure my vape kit and juices are 99.9% safe for me, but that extra .1% would be nice to know.

 

[e-pipeman]

I'm 99.9% sure my vape kit and juices are 99.9% safe for me, but that extra .1% would be nice to know.

Amen to that!

 

[ScottP]

Exactly. The last thing the vaping world needs is this 'you'll take this from me over my dead body jackwagon! I'm not bending down to 'the man' attitude.

Aaron you're nitpicking - the analogy stands - slow steady, respectful and not druggy looking is how we in my opinion need to be represented.

One thing I wonder is between now and the 2016 re-classing as a medical product - what are they going to be doing? Me-hopes lots of studying and testing, but where will the money come from and who will be doing it?

I'm 99.9% sure my vape kit and juices are 99.9% safe for me, but that extra .1% would be nice to know.

I could agree with you if regulations even made food safe. Yet every year how many cases of ecoli in our food are there? Last year there was an outbreak of something that was caused by contaminated shots administered at hospitals. Regulations only provide the illusion of safety while controlling the behavior of the masses.

 

[e-pipeman]

Regulations only provide the illusion of safety while controlling the behavior of the masses.

Partially true. Regulations have a tendency to maintain quality standards, but as with all matters of this sort they are only effective if enforced . The same applies to criminal law - people cry out for new legislation when there is nearly always a relevant law on the statute book which isn't enforced.

 

[Hotwire]

I could agree with you if regulations even made food safe. Yet every year how many cases of ecoli in our food are there? Last year there was an outbreak of something that was caused by contaminated shots administered at hospitals.

You're now being an absolutist. They haven't made food 100% safe but I'll bet it's a lot safer than it would be if they weren't there. One horror story gets more attention than many more success stories. Nice try though (not sure why you're trying however.)

Regulations only provide the illusion of safety while controlling the behavior of the masses.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy........

 

[ScottP]

You're now being an absolutist. They haven't made food 100% safe but I'll bet it's a lot safer than it would be if they weren't there. One horror story gets more attention than many more success stories.

You, yourself said juice was 99.9% safe and want regulation to get the other 0.1%. I am merely pointing out that nothing is ever going to be 100% safe so expecting regulation to get you that 0.1% is never going to happen.

 

[Hotwire]

Also with a lot of vapers buying juice from China - you really think you're getting consistent levels of nicotine or even tested, unadulterated nicotine? I work with the Chinese and if you answered yes to that question I would have to pee myself laughing (as would my Chinese co-workers.)

Regulation will at least make sure the nicotine is consistent (recent studies have found it to be not so) and unadulterated.

What I'm worried about is

1. Big pharma getting the licensing deal and making a bland, flavorless product just under the cost of a pack of smokes (yeah flavorless is one of the things the MHRA are going for)

2. Big Tobacco doing the above and making it cost more than a pack of smokes..........

If they at least offered tobacco and menthol flavors, I think I could handle it, if the vape was about the same as with an ego cart. My plan was to quit smoking and not start a new addiction / habit after all.

Now it's turned to harm reduction as I know I'll never stop, I can't, so it's e-cigs or back to the real cigs.

IF the final product they end up making available and legal is the same as the cig-alike I bought recently - I'll go back on the cigs, the vapor tasted okay but the battery needed charging every 2 hours and the vape production was awful and inconsistent and the atty bridge broke after 3 days!

I'm looking forward to the RJ Reynold's Vuze (or whatever it's called) reviews to see

A. if that is what we can expect

B. If it's an 'okay' vape and at the least not more expensive than smoking.

 

[ScottP]

Now it's turned to harm reduction as I know I'll never stop, I can't, so it's e-cigs or back to the real cigs.

Then why do you want government involved when you know they want to get rid of flavors, take juices out of the hands of individuals and end up with Big Tobacco as the only supplier of pre-filled crap flavored cartos all to TRY and get 0.1% safer?!?! There is such a thing as risk vs reward. In this case we have a 0.1% risk and in return we have a huge health benefit, potential huge cost savings, great flavors, and a variety of choices. Why would you give all of that up for a slight chance it mitigating 0.1% risk?

I could be totally wrong but it seems you might be happier over in the ANTZ forums.

They are that way:

 

[Hotwire]

Oh you're wrong in so many ways I'll not waste space in the thread other than to say we'll agree to disagree.

 

[ScottP]

Agreed. .

 

[Hotwire]

Not @scotp (but not excluding him lol)

I live in China. I see and hear about the effects of crappy regulation of food and drugs daily.

Anyone who hasn't stepped outside the USA

1. Read up on how damaging a lot of bootleg booze could be during the proby years in your own country.

2. Go to youtube and do a search for 'shanghai / china gutter oil' Be ready to want to vomit over your computer.

3. Read up on how up to or more than 40% of all cigs in china are fakes - even in western chain supermarkets here - and how they have EVEN MORE dangerous chemicals in them and insanely higher levels of tar and nic.

That's what lax regulation and licensing does for ya.

I live here and to all of you who order juice from here - I'd advise you not to. Why? I live here. I work here. Every foriegner I know calls Shanghai (the most modern city in china) 'the world's biggest kindergaarten.' These people are not clean and smart like the ones you might meet in the US or UK. In Shanghai I've seen men in business suits squat and take a dump in the street in broad daylight, people go shopping with their pajamas on and hold up a queue for thirty minutes arguing with the cashier over the total because they think they're being cheated. They spit and grunt and pee and poop on the streets and spit inside trains and buses etc. They ain't smart in general and are corrupt as all hell and are the first to admit it.

Now when it was 'we sell few gallons of nic liq to a million vapers in USA and UK' it was pretty easy for them no doubt to get good clean nicotine. Now they're also selling nicotine liquid to their own population of over 1.6 billion people - you think they ain't cutting it with something or adding some filler or dilutant or using stuff that ain't A grade all the time?

If you don't know the answer to that, again as i said above, even my Chinese co-workers would laugh at you. I'm stuck buying juice from here until I get home to the UK in Sept. I order small, under $25 orders. Know why? My Chinese co-worker who does it for me told me a lot of the reviews for products costing more than that are done by the company / friends of the company themselves but for less than that - it's not worth getting people to type the reviews for them!

Just a heads up.

Every Chinese guy I know says they will only buy cigarettes from a store owned by a friend, family member or a friend of one etc. Now if that's how bad it is with fake cigs (a lot end up in the EU and US too) I doubt there are companies making e-juice that aren't as unscrupulous.

Like I said do 1, 2 and 3 listed above. It'll make anyone think twice about regulating and licensing.

As for the juice, I buy Dekang only as they are the originators, so I'm hoping they've stayed straight up. When I get to the UK? Nope. My juice will be bought from UK producers regardless of cost or EU or US producers regardless of cost or shipping.

I just paid twice as much for an ego-c set up from a Chinese site as they have 'certificates' proving they ship real OVALE from Seoul (Korea has the real deal but expensive as taxed as tobacco imports) which the Koreans import from Italy. I had one in Korea it was amazing. This one, I've had a week and the part near the battery/atty connection gets hot after four drags already and I vape less than 1ml a day. I'm pretty sure it's not OVALE really. As long as it doesn't explode I'll make do foer the next 2.5 months I guess as Ovale and Janty don't actually ship here....

 

[mjrhartley]

"What we tend to forget is that addiction is caused by someone LIKING something so much that they overdo."

@Kena: I'll start here. I have worked as an addiction counselor, and I have been in recovery for 9 years+... This is a dangerous and wholly inaccurate description of addiction. Addiction is caused by chemical changes in the brain that can happen to someone after using a substance one time, or not at all... It has nothing to do with whether or not, or how much, someone "likes" a given substance. Addiction is a disease, not a choice. Your position on this topic, if your position is in fact indicated by your statement, is ignorant, and part of the larger problem with addiction treatment in this country. I mean no offense by this, my apologies if any was taken.

@everyone else... I see no problem with "some" regulation. That being said, as some have mentioned, it is a pandora's box of sorts, and it's hard to tell where it would end up. I find it hard to believe that any sensible member of ECF would believe that this isn't where we've all been headed for a while now, though. The writing has been on the wall for some time, complaining about it won't do any good. The industry has gotten too big, there's just too much money in it, and you better believe that when that happens the government is going to get their piece. It never fails.

I don't see the FDA going the route of classifying ecigs as "medicines" though, because that would open up too many other issues. One thing no one is talking about is the fact that classifying ecigs as such would have many consequences. One of which would be that Doctors could potentially have to "precribe" ecig devices/liquid/etc... That would open up ecig gear/liquid/etc... to being covered by insurance. If there is a lobby in this country that can compete with big tobacco, it's the insurance lobby, and you better believe that they wouldn't accept fiscal responsibility for this without a fight.

It's a long road ahead with regards to regulation. I, for one, don't have a problem with a safer product. Yes, it is fraught with the potential negative consequences of the unknown... and it is a slippery slope. You can count on one thing for sure: The government is going to get a bigger chunk of the ecig pie, it's just a matter of how they do it. We would be naive to think anything different. The questions that remain are whether the changes that are certain to come will end up having positive or negative consequences for the product, the economic impact, and the community. Time will tell.

ps. Nothing in this post was intended to offend anyone. My apologies if anything had that effect.

 

[djtonyb]

That's why I would prefer to be represented as a vaper buy a man in a suit and tie and the devices not look any more flamboyant than an ego 650mah system.

Keep your inconspicuous eGo. I carry around my Tesla and MVP with Protanks all the time, and am more than happy to explain to people what they are if asked. I spent 6 years trying to convince myself to quit with dinky littly KR808D1s because I was trying "blend in". Never made it more than 6 months before taking up the stinkies again. I finally got a decent mod, and have not smoked for 9 months, and don't believe I ever will again. This lame facade of regulation making everything "safer" needs to be exposed for the tax-grabbing, pro Big Pharma and Big Tobacco sham that it is.

 

[Ken_A]

ps. Nothing in this post was intended to offend anyone. My apologies if anything had that effect.

most of us do not get offended that easily.

 

[Vale46]

Didn't think hot wire was on same page. But seems it (he/she) is all go for knowledge, you should be a professor in the art of getting a rise out of people. I ain't knocking in it. Think it quite funny how much education and knowledge you think you have! Post on! As far as back on topic goes. Not worried. How they gone ban or regulate ego with evod and 0% nic juice. They say jump, you say how high. Just the world we live in. Could say .... off and see where that gets you. It's not like I can't get green flowers, for example

 

[Vale46]

Tonyb. A little of what you said is right

 

[ScottP]

One thing I Do want to say, is that i am not completely against ANY regulations at all. I just know that the problem with starting down the regulation path is stopping it before it goes to far. First they will pass some decent regulations, then they will decide they need to get everyone to stop using nic juice so they will add more and more regulations to make it harder and harder and more and more expensive to get. Eventually I can see regulations causing the price of a carton worth of juice to double or triple the cost of an actual carton just on taxes alone.

That said, here are a few regulations I would be ok with:
1. Ban on sales to minors
2. Standardized labeling. I think MBV already does a great job of this, not sure about other vendors though.
3. Requirement to only use Food grade ingredients (PV, VG, and flavorings) listing any food coloring for those with allergies.
4. Requirement to wear protective gloves when mixing eJuice. This should be done anyway but would help protect the mixers.
5. A cap of 36mg nic per ml on "ready to use" juice.
6. A cap of 72mg per ml on DIY base juice.

I would NOT support anything that:
1. Requires the use of an FDA, EPA, OSHA approved laboratory.
2. Blocks mail order sales of juice (pre-made or DIY).
3. Blocks the sale of juice at B&M's (pre-made or DIY).
4. Makes it illegal to do your own extractions.
5. Blocks the import of juice or pre-built hardware from overseas.
6. Anything that ties vaping to existing or future analog laws.

 

[e-pipeman]

One thing I Do want to say, is that i am not completely against ANY regulations at all. I just know that the problem with starting down the regulation path is stopping it before it goes to far. First they will pass some decent regulations, then they will decide they need to get everyone to stop using nic juice so they will add more and more regulations to make it harder and harder and more and more expensive to get. Eventually I can see regulations causing the price of a carton worth of juice to double or triple the cost of an actual carton just on taxes alone.

That said, here are a few regulations I would be ok with:
1. Ban on sales to minors
2. Standardized labeling. I think MBV already does a great job of this, not sure about other vendors though.
3. Requirement to only use Food grade ingredients (PV, VG, and flavorings) listing any food coloring for those with allergies.
4. Requirement to wear protective gloves when mixing eJuice. This should be done anyway but would help protect the mixers.
5. A cap of 36mg nic per ml on "ready to use" juice.
6. A cap of 72mg per ml on DIY base juice.

I would NOT support anything that:
1. Requires the use of an FDA, EPA, OSHA approved laboratory.
2. Blocks mail order sales of juice (pre-made or DIY).
3. Blocks the sale of juice at B&M's (pre-made or DIY).
4. Makes it illegal to do your own extractions.
5. Blocks the import of juice or pre-built hardware from overseas.
6. Anything that ties vaping to existing or future analog laws.

I agree with most of what you say. Incidentally, it would be fascinating to find out how "they" could stop you making your own extractions. They would have to stop selling you tobacco then, wouldn't they? (P.S. It's an easy plant to grow, even in the UK.) It gets harder if you want to cure it, but we don't - not trying to smoke the stuff after all!

 

[ScottP]

Incidentally, it would be fascinating to find out how "they" could stop you making your own extractions.

Simple they pass a law that makes doing your own extractions illegal and punishable by 10-20 years in prison. Would you risk DIY then?

 

[e-pipeman]

Why not? Who would police it or know?

This simply proves my biggest and most obvious political point - nearly everything could be dealt with if existing laws were enforced. Sadly there is neither the will nor the cash to do this.