A pdib mod :>p

[ltrainer]

Ok. So, back to the safety of this particular mod I've done. Just rebuilt an old Phoenix knockoff that I've had laying around for some time. (haven't used it in months) Screwed it onto Blackie, did what I ALWAYS DO: I BRUSHED THE BRASS SHIM ASIDE AND PUT THE BATTERY DIRECTLY ON THE SPRING TO TEST THE BUILD. Fired it up . . . .




All's good. Spring did it's job.


BTW: Rob, I need some more springs!

Why didn't you use the shim on the spring to see if the spring would collapse?

 

[SeaNap]

Oh no pdib! Did you have a short or could the spring not handle your subohm?

The spring does indeed collapse under heat. When you see the spring completely blown out thats because of the current passing through the spring which raises the temp of the spring considerably (thats when you start to see the spring glow orange like our coils). Having a hot battery will also "collapse" the spring, the metal will be hot enough to deform and gravity takes over and the spring will compress. Because I do not have any actual hard data on the particular spring that Rob uses I have a hard time pinpointing what conditions have the most effect on the spring. It is my educated guess that the current plays a bigger role, but thats all it is, a guess. dhomes mentioned that those sony 30A stay pretty cool under very high loads, and someone mentioned that they could feel the button heat up before the battery did.

With the shim and spring combo engaged I would suspect that you wouldnt get an immediate short circuit protection but that when the battery started to fail and got very hot the spring would deform, but at that point it may be too late to save the battery.

 

[pdib]

Itrainer, I'm not wanting to try that just now.

SeaNap, it was a classic hard short on a 510 atty connection.. As I said above, I always lift the shim aside on a fresh build. That was just the spring alone, doing it's thing. It glowed like nobody's business.

 

[gdeal]

pdib, glad you use protection.... Any pics of the phoenix mod or did it melt?

 

[pdib]

I could snap one. But why?

oh, I didn't mod this particular phoenix. Just "built" a wikicoil.

did you want pics of the phoenix i DID mod for bf?

 

[gdeal]

Just interested to understand what effect the hard short had at the point of the hard short.

I could snap one. But why?

oh, I didn't mod this particular phoenix. Just "built" a wikicoil.

did you want pics of the phoenix i DID mod for bf?

 

[jcalis1394]

Just interested to understand what effect the hard short had at the point of the hard short.

Interesting to test for sure. I just got this mod up and running so ain't about to do something like this with my limited batteries . But my theory is, that there's a 50/50 chance that it will collapse. Brass does not conduct heat as good as the stock springs, they get at most warm with .3-.4 ohm coils. Then again I've noticed the spring not getting almost warm at all while running really low sub ohm coils with the shim, while without the shim they'd get really hot within 3 seconds. So the heat goes from the battery to the brass shim to the springs. I don't know if it would do it fast enough for the spring to save the battery.

 

[pdib]

i doubt the spring would get warm enough fast enough for what it's supposed to do.

 

[pdib]

Just interested to understand what effect the hard short had at the point of the hard short.

none. I think the current didn't get past the southern tip of the atty.

 

[ChrisEU]

Dibby, please check for me if the button got hot and melted a bit - I would like to find out whether the spring reacts fast enough on a hard short to prevent that. Did you have the firing pin mod with the brass active at the time of the short?

 

[dhomes]

Yo P,

the GGTS uses a brass spring (a thick one at that), I wonder how one of those, silver-plated would work for modding

Brass GGTS Replacement Button Spring

out of stock though, as usual with anything from Imeo

But a brass spring one can plate is my next step (besides a mod of my own i have in mind)

 

[Jeremy Evans]

Yo P,

the GGTS uses a brass spring (a thick one at that), I wonder how one of those, silver-plated would work for modding

Brass GGTS Replacement Button Spring

out of stock though, as usual with anything from Imeo

But a brass spring one can plate is my next step (besides a mod of my own i have in mind)

I would think that spring to be too small if it is the one for inside the button, the ones from Atomizoo might be a viable option, also available in 3 configurations : brass, silver plated brass and then rhodium

 

[dhomes]

I would think that spring to be too small if it is the one for inside the button, the ones from Atomizoo might be a viable option, also available in 3 configurations : brass, silver plated brass and then rhodium

messed up (copied the wrong link)

The bottom spring is the one I meant to link to

But if atmizoo already sell them silver plated all the better!

This Bug is interesting, but 7A limit, they say is good for resistances down to .6 ohms

The springs are quite cheap! Roller/Dingo: Battery Spring | atmizoo vaping modware | shop

.7 euros for silver plated? game

As I understand Rhodium does not suffer from corrosion

Neither does Silver unless a specific agent is introduced in the mix (or so I read, can't recall) it does sulfates though, so no taking REO to the beach

 

[pdib]

dhomes, I did not have the shim in place. The point of my post was, if anyone were to decide to try my modification: to always run their build without the shim first, and avail themselves of the spring. So, whatever happened to the button wouldn't be indicative of anything new.

I sure wish I new what temperatures the battery gets to, and at what rate. I have a few simple tests I'd like to run; but I don't know what degree of heat to run them at.

Anyone know?

What I mean to ask is: I think I know what temp an IMR can get to when shorted. I'd like to have some idea of what temp it would be at when we want to see the spring collapse. . . . . . 150F? . . . .200F?

 

[ChrisEU]

After about 10 minutes (!) hard short, an AW IMR will have about 280F (Source). Again, the heat comes from the spring, not the battery. The tempering temperature of spring steel is around 900F, which is actually quite low for steel (Source).

 

[dhomes]

dhomes, I did not have the shim in place. The point of my post was, if anyone were to decide to try my modification: to always run their build without the shim first, and avail themselves of the spring. So, whatever happened to the button wouldn't be indicative of anything new.

I sure wish I new what temperatures the battery gets to, and at what rate. I have a few simple tests I'd like to run; but I don't know what degree of heat to run them at.

Anyone know?

What I mean to ask is: I think I know what temp an IMR can get to when shorted. I'd like to have some idea of what temp it would be at when we want to see the spring collapse. . . . . . 150F? . . . .200F?

There is a video on youtube of a guy shorting some 18650 (don't recall if it was IMR or protected) and recording the temperatures with a temp scanner

Saw it months ago so I don't recall the temps, but I'm sure that if you search youtube you will be able to find it

 

[ChrisEU]

That was the Panasonic test from KalliesKustoms - the link is the first Source link in the post above.

 

[dhomes]

That was the Panasonic test from KalliesKustoms - the link is the first Source link in the post above.

that's the one!

there is another of a guy that received some protected ones and knew it has a faulty protection circuit (counterfit somethingFire

he goes onto exploding them on purpose

 

[pdib]

After about 10 minutes (!) hard short, an AW IMR will have about 280F (Source). Again, the heat comes from the spring, not the battery. The tempering temperature of spring steel is around 900F, which is actually quite low for steel (Source).

couldn't get that vid to play, but it is the one i'd seen before. (AW IMR hard short) [although, i was recalling it as being 250F] Having just had that hard short and watched my spring glow and melt (And having a sleep on it), I'm convinced that was the equivalent of a light bulb filament. Meaning, the spring glowing and collapsing was all about current running through it. Also, I did a bit of blind experimenting, and heat transfer through abuttal is SLOW. So. The idea of a ~200F battery bottom transferring enough heat to the spring to collapse it in any reasonable amount of time is . . . . . . . . . . . . . no way. Not gonna happen.

 

[davewuvswaffles]

Unable to find brass shim and wanting to try something while I was giving my mini a nice ultrasonic bath and contact touch up, I decided to try an aluminum shim.

First I reassembled everything and had a few puffs with it set up regularly. Wow does applying a little noalox after a nice cleaning do wonders all by it's own! Anyways, after testing for a potential hard short, I set it up with aluminum foil and gave it a puff. It could be me, but I'm pretty sure it hit even harder.

I've still got a little nic buzz going after 4-5 puffs of 12 mg. I'll have to do some more empirical tests with my mm after dinner, if I come up with anything worth reporting I'll pass the numbers along.