A sort of unnecessary warning for Vmax owners

[tinstar15]

I cannot think of a reason why anyone with any experience with APVs would do this, but I was just shown a completely screwed up Vmax. An associate of mine bought a Vmax unit and two Efest batteries about three weeks ago. He's been saying that it works great. He brings it to me this morning and says it stopped working. I unscew the base cap and find two gray labeled batteries with some dried syrupy stuff and black fine grainy powder inside.

It appears that there was no insulation jacket on the bottom of the batteries. I ask him where did he get these batteries. He says they were from a local tobacco shop selling DSE601 epipes and that he was told they would work fine. He shows me two more unused batteries. There is no insulator jacket coverage on the bottom. Apparently the base of one or both of the batteries shorted on the side of the housing.

I tried cleaning and blowing out the debris and seeing if the unit would still function with no luck. I had a 601 way back and I can't remember if the batteries I had looked like these. I had some similar looking ones that came with my MKII Screwdriver but they have a jacket covering most of the - end. Why someone would build a batt like this, i have no idea.

I was debating if I should even bother to mention this and figured it was worth it for two reasons. One, with unprotected lithium ion batteries being stacked and failing, the device's exterior showed no indication that anything had happened. The batteries didn't turn the device into a bomb or anything, so I guess some sort of safety feature kept the owner from serious injury. The batteries say ICR18350 Special Battery Shenzen on the side with a light gray plastic wrap.

The second reason is that someone else could possibly be out there considering doing the same thing. The owner suffered only the loss of the device. Someone else may not be so fortunate. I highly doubt any company will cover this under warranty as well.

 

[AnsonJames]

Thanks for the heads up but I think this is about the batteries as opposed to the Vmax - Efests aren't gray though, they're red.

These sound like no-name batteries.

 

[HawkeyeCS]

Now, I'm not an expert, but if I were to guess, I don't think that's a short problem, most devices use the body as the conductor for the bottom side of the battery, but I could totally be wrong. I would probably guess that the issue was more likely that they are ICR batteries which aren't designed for high drain use, like an IMR cell. Especially with a VMAX and it's 5amp limit, you need to use high drain (IMR) type batteries. If the batteries were shorting, I doubt it would have worked at all. Like I said, not an expert, but that's my guess...

 

[tinstar15]

Probably wasn't very clear, lack of coffee . He had efest batteries but used the gray no names as a cheaper alternative. He didn't realize that it needed two batteries to function. He went and bought the no names as spares when the efests were charging.

It's definitely more about the batteries than the device. Only reason I titled it with the Vmax title was for Vmax owners who may be wondering what would happen in a battery failure. The device held up and didn't go boom, so I figure that may alleviate some concern. Could it have a more catastrophic failure? Sure, anythings possible as it is with any device. It didn't in this case.

Since a majority of the scorching appears centered on the tube, I figured that the short/failure occurred at the point where the + terminal of the bottom battery touches the - terminal on the top battery. I'm guessing that the lack of insulator wrap on the bottom probably caused this but it could also have been more draw than the battery could handle.

The post was more of a PSA than anything else. Also figured it would help people wanting to know how the Vmax would hold up to a failure. I really should have snapped a picture but aside from having dust and goop in it, it would be somewhat pointless. Unfortunately the circuitry didn't survive as well as the body did.

 

[bnrkwest]

Wow so glad nothing bad happened. People really need to do their battery homework and not mess around with unknown stacked batteries. Yikes could have been bad. bnrk

 

[cozzicon]

Wow so glad nothing bad happened. People really need to do their battery homework and not mess around with unknown stacked batteries. Yikes could have been bad. bnrk

It's also a vendor issue.

The makers of these units, or the vendors selling them need to *specify* the proper battery to be used. Many do not. It needs to be included in the packaging, and at the point of sale.

There are a number of companies that already do this. It needs to be universal.

 

[muzichead]

Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but it would be nice if there were some pics attached to this post of the batteries in question. I realize they might not be in the best of shape, but a pic goes a long way for some people on this forum..... It might help identify what or where these batteries originated from and keep someone else from purchasing them as well. I would also add it weeds out anyone, (i'm not saying you), that posts fictitous things that really haven't happened.... There was a thread on this forum not too long ago that outed someone with wild fascinations about an occurrence that never happened and yet still got everyone all worked up....

Just saying it would be nice to have some pics so as someone else here could maybe help identify the battery since you are not sure what it actually was.....

 

[hificat101]

Not to question you tinstar, because you saw something I didn't, but I doubt the bats shorted. I've watched many videos of 18650's shorting, and it's kind of a light fuse and get away type affair. Granted these are only 18350's, but they still can hold a TON of energy. It's far more likely that the bats were taxed WAY beyond their capabilities, and thus leaked out the puppy tears, or whatever it is the Chinese make our bats out of. Either way it was an extremely dangerous situation. If your friend is bummed about losing his mod, remind him that it sure beats being called "lefty" for the rest of his life.

Thanks for posting this info. Hopefully it will be a lesson for others not to play around with cheap ... bats in high power mods.

 

[tinstar15]

I found a pic of the battery in question on a vendors website. This vendor wasn't the one who sold the batts in question, but they have the same markings and appearance.

http://www.aquavaporcig.com/assets/images/1ecig/dse601_battery.jpg


As to pics of the device and batts.....yep I wasn't thinking that morning. I should have snapped a few. But like I was saying, it's not really much of a post-mortem type situation. The specific cause of the failure wasn't my main concern when I decided to post this. The batts were cheapo, crappy batts designed for use in a (IMO) specific mediocre device.

Some folks may not be aware that PVs are becoming more widely available offline than they think. There are quite a few small PV businesses out there that don't have much of an online presence. I was told that there's a local business in my area that's carrying quite a few upper end APVs like the Buzz, SB, and Apex devices. There's a guy who's going to start selling Vmaxs and LTs in a local flea market. My purpose was geared more towards the "Don't buy the wrong battery" point, with a side note that stupidly stacking unprotected crap won't necessarily end in an Apocalyptic event. It could have been much much worse. I figured that people may prefer to learn from another person's mistake instead of making it themselves.

I've occasionally provided assistance to local vapers by helping them select an APV that suits their needs and by providing maintenance and repairs for them. Most of my folks are elderly and not very internet savvy. I've assisted and instructed as best as I can, but occasionally get the guy who has to go outside the recommended specs. I've fixed a GLV that got buggered up when a guy decided to use non rechargeable 3v lithium photo batteries from Walmart (a mistake that's more common than folks here may realize). I've ordered batteries for the folks that thought that Batteries + or Batteries USA stuff that "was the same size" would work. There's also a ton of folks that aren't ECF members who peruse the forums and read something without fully understanding what they're doing. I've had dealings with at least a dozen folks over the last month who bought devices based on reviews or suggestions they read on these forums. Only one was a member.

Some folks may wish to start a fight over which device is the best, but I'm certainly not one of them. I might say that some devices are mediocre or low performers in my opinion, but I won't tell someone to buy brand X because it is the best and everything else is garbage. A 510 180mah auto battery with a 3ohm atty may not be worth a hoot to me, but I won't insult someone for wanting or using one.

All I'm concerned about is information. If someone learns something and doesn't share it, then only they benefit. Even if they think the information is useless. With the rise of advanced devices on the market, availability is advancing faster than knowledge. There are folks selling APVs who have little to no idea what they're doing. Most local vendors are barely knowledgeable of their product's specs or capabilities. They see a chance for profit and take it. Don't believe me? Read any post regarding a Mall Kiosk encounter.

I figure that, even though WE all know better, not everyone here is like us. Sometimes we forget what it was like when we first waded into the ocean of info on this forum. I'm guilty of assuming someone would know better on many occasions.

I post to help whenever I can. If I make a mistake, I own up. My brain doesn't seem to be working as well as it used to, but I assure you that I never say anything out of malice or in an attempt to stir up trouble. As I said before, the only reason for mentioning the name of the specific device was to possibly help folks who were concerned that the Vmax was dangerous because it has stacked batteries. Stacked batts may carry a bit of a stigma due to recent events, but to say that it's a disaster waiting to happen is perhaps a bit much.

The thing to take away from all this is that skimping on something like a battery is just unwise. Assuming that the guy selling you your batteries has any knowledge regarding its use in a PV without verifying is equally foolish. Saving a few bucks or not wanting to deal with ordering from a website and finding something at a local store may be more costly in the long run. Teaching people that all batteries, devices, and chargers are not created equal is a daunting task, but worthwhile. If more folks took it upon themselves to help their fellow man instead of trying to find differences to argue over, the world would be a far better place than it is now

Wow, I really ran long on this post. Sorry....Maybe I should start writing books

 

[myxomatosis]

Your PV is only as good as the batteries that run it. There's not a HUGE price difference between poor and quality batteries. I have to be pretty frugal when it comes to purchasing things, but to me it doesn't make sense to put cheapo batts in something I have over $140 invested in.

VAPNJ has done a bunch of research on the subject. It's buried in the vmax tips and tricks thread.

 

[Modnar]

Thanks for the warning.

I actually have a Vmax and a couple of those batteries (I use AW batteries in my Vmax though, and use the grey ones in my lavatube 2 and lavatube 1.5)