Mickey that's absolutely brilliant sleuthing.
I'll do whatever's needed to get this stuff out. Any suggestions?
I'll do whatever's needed to get this stuff out. Any suggestions?
Action regarding FDA: No banter here, please
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in that nitzkin document, the part that worries me is:
would ecigs be considered "illicit" or "contraband" ?
I have problems with the petition, and that might be what Jamie was hinting, but not saying. I have no problems with this well thought-out piece.
Ok, well any ideas as to what to do with it would be great. The problem is - how do you get people to actually do stuff?
I mean, a petition is easy - takes a few seconds - I know its value is relatively low, so what else do we do?
If anyone can write a motivating piece, I will put it up....
Bob?
I mean, a petition is easy - takes a few seconds - I know its value is relatively low, so what else do we do?
If anyone can write a motivating piece, I will put it up....
Bob?
I agree with Bob - we just need more time. Ruyan has been diligently testing their products and have results proving them to be safe, but more time is required.
Great letter Mickey - we need more people to do the same thing! We need the support of people from outside the e-cig industry to support us.
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Great letter Mickey - we need more people to do the same thing! We need the support of people from outside the e-cig industry to support us.
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Well, I feel like we're a bunch of dwarfs throwing COPYRIGHTDMCA at Andre the Giant, in some respects. I know that the lobbyists representing pharmaceutical and tobacco companies are a force to be reckoned with, and I know that the political motivations behind this whole thing are potent. That said, I feel like the WORST thing we could do is stick our heads in the sand. At least any efforts we make will get the word out and perhaps give us a strong platform for the next round.
So, for now, I recommend making copies of the Public Health Physicians' statement and sending statements to the political big-wigs. I also recommend making connections with your local tobacco retailers and getting their support. I have seen tobacco shops leaving petitions out for their customers regarding tobacco legislation. Any place that sells tobacco would probably appreciate this.
As far as online activities go, SPREAD THE WORD!! Suppliers, please post the Public Health Physicians' statements on a webpage. Additionally, why not ask all of your customers to write their legislators, as well? There are many, many e-vapers who do not visit our forum (bless their hearts). We need to be reaching them, too.
Please remember that we most likely will lose this battle, but that e-smoking is here to stay, and any actions taken now can very well shorten the war. Every dynasty crumbles eventually, and big pharm/tobacco are no exception. Remember the principles set by some of the greatest philosophers: Government governs by the consent of the people. While this truth seems obscured and faded, buried under piles of bureaucratic nonsense, it has not died.
Thank you all.
-Mickey
So, for now, I recommend making copies of the Public Health Physicians' statement and sending statements to the political big-wigs. I also recommend making connections with your local tobacco retailers and getting their support. I have seen tobacco shops leaving petitions out for their customers regarding tobacco legislation. Any place that sells tobacco would probably appreciate this.
As far as online activities go, SPREAD THE WORD!! Suppliers, please post the Public Health Physicians' statements on a webpage. Additionally, why not ask all of your customers to write their legislators, as well? There are many, many e-vapers who do not visit our forum (bless their hearts). We need to be reaching them, too.
Please remember that we most likely will lose this battle, but that e-smoking is here to stay, and any actions taken now can very well shorten the war. Every dynasty crumbles eventually, and big pharm/tobacco are no exception. Remember the principles set by some of the greatest philosophers: Government governs by the consent of the people. While this truth seems obscured and faded, buried under piles of bureaucratic nonsense, it has not died.
Thank you all.
-Mickey
Newsroom: Press Releases
Contact: Lautenberg Press Office (202) 224-3224
Monday, March 23, 2009
WASHINGTON, D.C. Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) today urged the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to take electronic cigarettes, or e-cigarettes, off the market until they are proven safe by the federal agency.
Lautenberg Urges FDA to Remove Electronic Cigarettes from the Market Until Proven Safe N.J. Senator Says Products Should Require Approval by FDA Prior to Sale in United States
Please send an e-mail to Senator Lautenberg and tell him to bug off.
Senator Lautenberg's E-Mail Link: Senator Frank R. Lautenberg
Please forward this to everyone
Press Release of Senator Lautenberg
Lautenberg Urges FDA to Remove Electronic Cigarettes from the Market Until Proven Safe N.J. Senator Says Products Should Require Approval by FDA Prior to Sale in United States
Lautenberg Urges FDA to Remove Electronic Cigarettes from the Market Until Proven Safe N.J. Senator Says Products Should Require Approval by FDA Prior to Sale in United States
Contact: Lautenberg Press Office (202) 224-3224
Monday, March 23, 2009
WASHINGTON, D.C. Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) today urged the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to take electronic cigarettes, or e-cigarettes, off the market until they are proven safe by the federal agency.
Lautenberg Urges FDA to Remove Electronic Cigarettes from the Market Until Proven Safe N.J. Senator Says Products Should Require Approval by FDA Prior to Sale in United States
Please send an e-mail to Senator Lautenberg and tell him to bug off.
Senator Lautenberg's E-Mail Link: Senator Frank R. Lautenberg
Please forward this to everyone
They don't like that the e-cig will decrease the cigarette tax revenue
Rock,
Thank you for your efforts. While I do not think contacting Senator Lautenberg will do any harm, I think that our best bet is to meet the challenge via our representatives and senators. If you are from New Jersey, e-mailing Senator Lautenberg would be appropriate. I feel that telling him to 'bugger off' may be a little counter productive.
Instead, I propose we earn the support of other representatives and senators in congress. I do not think we can make a difference in regards to Sen. Lautenberg, but he only represents 2% of the senate! Let us focus on directing our energy where we can make an impact.
Thank you,
-Mickey
well the form letter is nice but maybe a pre scripited email page that would automatically send it with your name attached would make it easier for people to send in on to the right people.
i thaught i would post this here as well as in my live show social forum
YouTube - TWIV- Ep 1
i thaught i would post this here as well as in my live show social forum
YouTube - TWIV- Ep 1
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We need positive exposure. We need to get as many smokers as possible using these things. I know the tech is not perfect but I think it's pretty darn close. I know supply is quickly becoming an issue but it has not dried up yet. I still believe most smokers don't know about or realize this thing actually works.
If every one of us gets 5 smokers to invest in a quality E-Smoking package and instruct them on it's use then perhaps each of them will do the same.
I fear that we are just too few at the moment. And while this promises to be such a rage once the big players take over it could take quite a while based on the introduction of past products. If big money feels the pinch then perhaps they will embrace it instead of fighting it. So let's hit em where it hurts and take away paying customers!
Lorddrek
If every one of us gets 5 smokers to invest in a quality E-Smoking package and instruct them on it's use then perhaps each of them will do the same.
I fear that we are just too few at the moment. And while this promises to be such a rage once the big players take over it could take quite a while based on the introduction of past products. If big money feels the pinch then perhaps they will embrace it instead of fighting it. So let's hit em where it hurts and take away paying customers!
Lorddrek
Mickey,
It seems to me that another very powerful argument has been overlooked which can be brought to the table by Dr. Nitzkin.
The genie is already out of the bottle with respect to the hardware which, in consisting simply of Li-Ion Batteries and "modular electronics" is not by itself regulated by FDA absent any nicotine or other liquid involvement even though this hardware is intended to be used with such. Therefore, no hardware ban can realistically succeed. So a banning of eCigaresttes and liquids will succeed only in creating an instant black market in contraband liquids for this hardware leading to black market sourcing of highly toxic nicotine from unscrupulous chemical supply houses wherever in the world these might be found which will lead to extremely hazardous attempts by untrained citizenry to manufacture ad hoc contraband liquids to satisfy the existing and unstoppably growing consumer demand for eCigarettes which even a worldwide ban cannot prevent. Resistance is futile.
This possibility is, by far, a much greater threat than a modified status quo which adopts labeling and eliminates medical claims pending results of clinical trials while allowing the continued sale of these products.
Feel free to reword this as you see fit if you agree it is worth passing on to Dr. Nitzkin.
It seems to me that another very powerful argument has been overlooked which can be brought to the table by Dr. Nitzkin.
The genie is already out of the bottle with respect to the hardware which, in consisting simply of Li-Ion Batteries and "modular electronics" is not by itself regulated by FDA absent any nicotine or other liquid involvement even though this hardware is intended to be used with such. Therefore, no hardware ban can realistically succeed. So a banning of eCigaresttes and liquids will succeed only in creating an instant black market in contraband liquids for this hardware leading to black market sourcing of highly toxic nicotine from unscrupulous chemical supply houses wherever in the world these might be found which will lead to extremely hazardous attempts by untrained citizenry to manufacture ad hoc contraband liquids to satisfy the existing and unstoppably growing consumer demand for eCigarettes which even a worldwide ban cannot prevent. Resistance is futile.
This possibility is, by far, a much greater threat than a modified status quo which adopts labeling and eliminates medical claims pending results of clinical trials while allowing the continued sale of these products.
Feel free to reword this as you see fit if you agree it is worth passing on to Dr. Nitzkin.
I think deciding on an action plan and putting all info and links on one post would be good. It could include the following:
Our goal(keep it legal,continue research and testing, harm reduction,no second hand smoke,ect)
The doctors letter to Senator Lautenburg(to forward easily)
The petition link
Research links(for people to forward easily)
A link to the congressional website where you can put your zip code in and get your representatives emails,phone numbers,ect(someone posted this before but I can't find it now)
What people can do:
write letters, forward info, make calls, respond to google news alerts with good info,reach out to people that aren't here(lots of videos on you tube,spread the word and try to educate,ect)
Make sense? All in one spot is always good and it won't take a lot of time to do contribute somehow.
Just my thoughts
Stephanie
Our goal(keep it legal,continue research and testing, harm reduction,no second hand smoke,ect)
The doctors letter to Senator Lautenburg(to forward easily)
The petition link
Research links(for people to forward easily)
A link to the congressional website where you can put your zip code in and get your representatives emails,phone numbers,ect(someone posted this before but I can't find it now)
What people can do:
write letters, forward info, make calls, respond to google news alerts with good info,reach out to people that aren't here(lots of videos on you tube,spread the word and try to educate,ect)
Make sense? All in one spot is always good and it won't take a lot of time to do contribute somehow.
Just my thoughts
Stephanie
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One of the questions Dr. Nitzkin asked of the the community was about who was buying the product. I'm just a small local reseller, but the 30 or so kits that I've sold have all been to existing smokers, at least 25 years old up to about 40, who have smoked between 5 and 20 years and are looking for an alternative. I haven't sold any to a non-smoker (why would they buy one?) but I have certainly generated sales leads THROUGH non-smokers who are delighted that e-cigs don't stink like analogs.
In my experience, the argument that I've seen from the more paranoid types about the flavors attracting young kids is completely without foundation.
It's not much, I know, but I wanted to contribute something to the conversation.
-Jerimiah
In my experience, the argument that I've seen from the more paranoid types about the flavors attracting young kids is completely without foundation.
It's not much, I know, but I wanted to contribute something to the conversation.
-Jerimiah
Just a thought...
was just wondering if we could get insurance companies on our side. after all they would be saving loads of money from analog related health issues.
sorry if this was posted before.
was just wondering if we could get insurance companies on our side. after all they would be saving loads of money from analog related health issues.
sorry if this was posted before.
Here is a Warning & Disclaimer that should appear on all websites selling eCigs that I have cobbled together by shamelessly violating a variety of individual copyrights for a good cause. We should work together to refine and create a standardized ultimate Disclaimer that all relevant websites would use which might begin to satisfy the powers that be:
Warning & Disclaimer: Nicotine is an addictive substance. No personal vaporization (PV) appliance has been approved by the U.S. FDA or Health Canada as a Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) device and no clinical trials have yet established that PVs are effective for the purpose of quitting smoking. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or mitigate any disease or medical condition. No person under 18 years of age may purchase any PV appliance. Do not use any PV appliance if you are presently a non smoker or if you are a smoker currently undergoing any NRT protocol whatsoever. Do not use any PV appliance if you suffer from or are at high risk of suffering from respiratory conditions, heart disease, high blood pressure or diabetes or any other serious or chronic illness. Consult with your doctor before use of any PV appliance if taking prescription medications or if you suffer from any food or flavor additive[*] allergies. Do not use any PV appliance if you are pregnant or nursing. Be aware of symptoms of nicotine overdose and immediately discontinue use of any PV appliance if you experience any unusual onset of symptoms such as nausea, dizziness, a weak or rapid heartbeat, vomiting, ........, headache, sweating, stomach pain or cramp, weakness, drooling or seizures. Seek medical attention promptly particularly if you experience more than one of the aforementioned symptoms. Although Personal Vaporizers, also known as electronic cigarettes closely emulate the smoking experience without involvement of any combustion process, they do contain an electric heating element and should never be used anywhere inflammable gases may be found such as at gas stations. The purchase of a PV appliance from this website constitutes acceptance that the use of any PV is at your own risk in full understanding that PVs are only intended as smoking emulators and alternative nicotine delivery systems without claim of constituting any form of smoking cessation program or NRT.
*[ For typical additives see: p. 22,23 of NZ Health research report at: www,healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08,pdf ]
Warning & Disclaimer: Nicotine is an addictive substance. No personal vaporization (PV) appliance has been approved by the U.S. FDA or Health Canada as a Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) device and no clinical trials have yet established that PVs are effective for the purpose of quitting smoking. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or mitigate any disease or medical condition. No person under 18 years of age may purchase any PV appliance. Do not use any PV appliance if you are presently a non smoker or if you are a smoker currently undergoing any NRT protocol whatsoever. Do not use any PV appliance if you suffer from or are at high risk of suffering from respiratory conditions, heart disease, high blood pressure or diabetes or any other serious or chronic illness. Consult with your doctor before use of any PV appliance if taking prescription medications or if you suffer from any food or flavor additive[*] allergies. Do not use any PV appliance if you are pregnant or nursing. Be aware of symptoms of nicotine overdose and immediately discontinue use of any PV appliance if you experience any unusual onset of symptoms such as nausea, dizziness, a weak or rapid heartbeat, vomiting, ........, headache, sweating, stomach pain or cramp, weakness, drooling or seizures. Seek medical attention promptly particularly if you experience more than one of the aforementioned symptoms. Although Personal Vaporizers, also known as electronic cigarettes closely emulate the smoking experience without involvement of any combustion process, they do contain an electric heating element and should never be used anywhere inflammable gases may be found such as at gas stations. The purchase of a PV appliance from this website constitutes acceptance that the use of any PV is at your own risk in full understanding that PVs are only intended as smoking emulators and alternative nicotine delivery systems without claim of constituting any form of smoking cessation program or NRT.
*[ For typical additives see: p. 22,23 of NZ Health research report at: www,healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08,pdf ]
Good post. I agree. So, how can we get all online suppliers to tag this?
Might also help to tag their product packaging and eliquid/cartridge boxes with the health disclaimer label that energy drinks have. You know the one that sounds like the following:
"This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
Might also help to tag their product packaging and eliquid/cartridge boxes with the health disclaimer label that energy drinks have. You know the one that sounds like the following:
"This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
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I already have some of those statements in my FAQ on my site. I clearly say that the device is not made to help you quit. But I do think I have the word safer somewhere in my FAQ. But I focus on my personal experience, which is: Cost less, doesn't stink up the house, car, clothes, etc. No more yellow teeth. No tar. And so on.
I've had a handful of people locally ask if it will help them quit smoking. Which my answer is a flat out no. It's not made for that. I go on to explain that when I switched to e-cigs it was not to quit. It was to beat the high cigarette prices and not stink up my car any more. And the e-cig has succeeded in doing just that. I also go on to mention that technically since the e-cig doesn't have any tobacco it doesn't violate the clean air act. However that doesn't mean that they can just whip it out anywhere they want.
I think my biggest cringe came from a customer that told me about taking it on a plane. I suggested that they may not even want to have the thing go past a TSA checkpoint if they want to see it again.
I try to tell people that just because it doesn't contain tobacco doesn't mean that they don't have to get permission from the owner or manager of a place first before smoking it. I normally just respect the no smoking laws and I've not had a problem. The only place that I smoke is at work. But this was with the approval of my co-workers and only in the separate secured space that we have (and occasionally in the bathroom stall if mother nature steers me there). But again nobody is aware of what I'm doing.
I've already written my congress person and my senators. Hears to hoping that the rumors of people in congress already using the device is true. Hopefully they will stop an all out ban and lay down the law on just what can be said or not said about the devices in marketing material.
I'm also hoping that the manufacturers will step forward to answer any safety concerns that the FDA will have. And lastly, the jury is out on a lot of products that are sold legally in the U.S. In many cases only time can tell if a product is truly safe for the public or not. And I can think of many items that have gone trough the standard testing and later we find out that the product is not as good for human consumption as previously thought. While there are still other products that we know are not good for human consumption and they remain on the market (tobacco, fast food, etc.)
I've had a handful of people locally ask if it will help them quit smoking. Which my answer is a flat out no. It's not made for that. I go on to explain that when I switched to e-cigs it was not to quit. It was to beat the high cigarette prices and not stink up my car any more. And the e-cig has succeeded in doing just that. I also go on to mention that technically since the e-cig doesn't have any tobacco it doesn't violate the clean air act. However that doesn't mean that they can just whip it out anywhere they want.
I think my biggest cringe came from a customer that told me about taking it on a plane. I suggested that they may not even want to have the thing go past a TSA checkpoint if they want to see it again.
I try to tell people that just because it doesn't contain tobacco doesn't mean that they don't have to get permission from the owner or manager of a place first before smoking it. I normally just respect the no smoking laws and I've not had a problem. The only place that I smoke is at work. But this was with the approval of my co-workers and only in the separate secured space that we have (and occasionally in the bathroom stall if mother nature steers me there). But again nobody is aware of what I'm doing.
I've already written my congress person and my senators. Hears to hoping that the rumors of people in congress already using the device is true. Hopefully they will stop an all out ban and lay down the law on just what can be said or not said about the devices in marketing material.
I'm also hoping that the manufacturers will step forward to answer any safety concerns that the FDA will have. And lastly, the jury is out on a lot of products that are sold legally in the U.S. In many cases only time can tell if a product is truly safe for the public or not. And I can think of many items that have gone trough the standard testing and later we find out that the product is not as good for human consumption as previously thought. While there are still other products that we know are not good for human consumption and they remain on the market (tobacco, fast food, etc.)
^ there's mention on here somewhere where the TSA has given e-cigs their stamp of approval. A couple of airlines have banned them from use on the plane (Virgin is one, I forget the other), but that's all (so far).
@all - Came across an interesting article earlier. Did you know that approx. 2% of all prescriptions are drugs the FDA considers "unapproved"? FDA cracks down on unapproved narcotic painkillers
@all - Came across an interesting article earlier. Did you know that approx. 2% of all prescriptions are drugs the FDA considers "unapproved"? FDA cracks down on unapproved narcotic painkillers
Let us all follow Duckies' great example. Additionally, please post contact information for any other "health society" that opposes e-cigarettes, so that we may contact them, too.
Cheers,
-Mickey
I have quite a few subscribers on my Youtube channel, I've started a series on e-cigarettes, and soon I would like to make a video about all of this. Is there a list of concerns and concessions, major players in the game that should be listed, or any other information I should include?
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