Add MAOI to e-liquid?

[whomp88]

Is it possible to add the same MAOIs that are in cigarettes to e liquid somehow?

I find myself going back to analogues more and more for this reason....

There are alot of "Health Supplement" MAOIs out there, I wonder if it is possible to disolve them in the e liquid for a similar effect?

Thoughts?

 

[olderthandirt]

Greetings whomp!
That kind of thinking will take you far! Take a read through this thread,
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html
Bit longish but worth it if your interested.

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

Is it possible to add the same MAOIs that are in cigarettes to e liquid somehow?

I find myself going back to analogues more and more for this reason....

There are alot of "Health Supplement" MAOIs out there, I wonder if it is possible to disolve them in the e liquid for a similar effect?

Thoughts?

MAOIs are in analog cigarettes?!8-o These are powerful antidepresants with "potentially lethal dietary and drug interactions." Please do not add them to e-liquid!

 

[whomp88]

MAOIs are in analog cigarettes?!8-o These are powerful antidepresants with "potentially lethal dietary and drug interactions." Please do not add them to e-liquid!

Yes. Cigarette smoke contains potent MAOIs.

 

[jongleur]

MAOIs are in analog cigarettes?!8-o These are powerful antidepresants with "potentially lethal dietary and drug interactions." Please do not add them to e-liquid!

Hi, Don,

If the OP is actually considering adding prescription SSRIs or tricyclics, then I certainly share your alarm: please do not do that.

However, there are several natural and mild MAOIs out there. Just as common examples, both coffee and tea contain MAO-inhibitive constituents. So do olive oil, black pepper, and rhubarb -- and, yes, tobacco.

A couple that might legitimately be worth looking into in that they may hold promise specifically in vaping are passion flower (MAO-A inhibitor) and goldenroot (both MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitors).

***

Anyone interested might want to search for some of Kinabaloo's posts here, and check out an article or two on his website. He seems to know a fair amount about this. As evidence of his interest in the subject, his current avatar here is a string diagram of monoamine oxidase.

I've noticed that another ECF poster's user name is Syrian Rue, the common name for Peganum Harmala, which is a natural source of MAO-A inhibitor. Perhaps this person knows something about the subject -- I'm not sure.

There are also several threads on the subject, mostly in the "Nicotine" sub-forum. Use the Google search on the bottom left of every page in this forum.

Just to note, I don't think it has to be at all this complex if you're a brand-new vaper. Read the very long, but very worth-the-time introduction to vaping that DonDaBoomVape has written (the link is in his signature). Maybe just try vaping the way the majority of vapers do for awhile and see if you like it, and if it's working for you and your purposes. But at the same time, I do understand that some folks are born modders -- whether it's of electronics or cartridge fillers or liquids or even of legalities, politics, or social norms.

Happy vaping in any case!

--John

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Not "potent MAOIs". Tobacco is a fraction as potent as the prescription MAOIs.**
Yes, tobacco inhibits MAO-A and MAO-B in the brains of smokers, but:

(1) it is a reversible (hence milder) MAOI, meaning it does not bind permanently and completely deactivate those MAOs until your body can regenerate them in two weeks (which is what the prescription MAOIs do), and

(2) if the MAO inhibition were strong with tobacco, you would go into a coma or seizures or hypertensive crisis from taking antidepressants while smoking. (Serotonin syndrome or norepinephrine excess.) (I would go into the pharmacodynamics of that, but the post would be way too long and boring.) This doesn't happen, fortunately.


**I'm on one, actually. I have a nitpicky special diet and a Medic-Alert bracelet because one wrong medication by EMTs would mean a dirt nap. They're miracle drugs when you really need them but you cannot get anything nearly as powerful over the counter.

....Oh, and FWIW, as soon as I started taking my prescription MAOI at the lowest dose, tobacco felt incredibly powerful. I was still an analog smoker then, but my use was cut in half that day or I'd go crazy dizzy. So the idea of combining vaping with a weak natural MAOI is an intriguing one.

 

[helix]

Please don't try to crush up Lexapro, etc. and vape it off your atomizer.

Bad things will happen

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Please don't try to crush up Lexapro, etc. and vape it off your atomizer.

Bad things will happen

Lexapro = an SSRI antidepressant. No chemical or pharmacodynamic relationship to MAOIs. (Though subtypes of MAOIs also affect serotonin, just in a different way than SSRIs do.)

But yes. Bad idea. Though I think the atty would crap up instead of any hazardous vaping actually taking place.

 

[MHR7331]

This thread scares me... living with acute serotonin/dopamine imbalance is rough...

 

[Beer Man]

Do we need a sub-category where we can talk about our respective mental illnesses and the meds we take to combat them?

 

[Andtyler2]

Lexapro = an SSRI antidepressant. No chemical or pharmacodynamic relationship to MAOIs. (Though subtypes of MAOIs also affect serotonin, just in a different way than SSRIs do.)

Right on, Madame Psych. MAOI inhibiters are one of the oldest of the antidepressants. They were around long before Prozac and all the other variations that followed. For some, they are the only medication that works. On the one hand, it's a good thing they're available because they can be a life saver. On the other hand, it's a bummer because MAOIs tend to have some unpleasant side effects and you can't fudge on the dietary restrictions (eg., no cheeses like brie etc.). I guess it's a small price to pay for being able to live without chronic emotional pain. But it's still a drag.

The important issue here is the way cigarettes have acted as a form of self medication for some of us and how, when we quit, some sadness and other nastiness can bubble up and knock us flat. It never occurred to me that there might be something else in cigarettes (besides the nicotine plus whatever psychological benefit we derive from the act of inhaling/exhaling smoke) that was "helpful" for depression. Might make for an interesting thread all by itself.

What to do--besides go back to analogs? Not sure about all those herbs but I, for one, am looking to increase the amount of exercise I get. It's a well documented form of depression management (assuming you can muster the energy to START). Might as well take advantage of the fact that our lungs are no longer burdened with tar and other residue.

 

[maureengill]

That's an interesting question....I wonder how many of us are on antidepressants or such....might have something to do with why we all picked up smoking to begin with...

Maureen

 

[Andtyler2]

That's an interesting question....I wonder how many of us are on antidepressants or such....might have something to do with why we all picked up smoking to begin with...

Maureen

Yup. Prob'ly true for at least some of us. ("Suck it in" and "push it all down" ) Very effective.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Might make for an interesting thread all by itself.

Hey, Andtyler2, here it is. A very lengthy one, but evolves into an indepth look at what's missing for many vapers, leading to DVap's development and testing of "Whole Tobacco Alkaloid" e-liquid. Might take a couple days to read, but worth it for anyone, like myself, who used cigarettes to stay in mental balance, not just feeding the addiction .
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html

 

[robertpri]

Not "potent MAOIs". Tobacco is a fraction as potent as the prescription MAOIs.**
Yes, tobacco inhibits MAO-A and MAO-B in the brains of smokers, but:

(1) it is a reversible (hence milder) MAOI, meaning it does not bind permanently and completely deactivate those MAOs until your body can regenerate them in two weeks (which is what the prescription MAOIs do), and

(2) if the MAO inhibition were strong with tobacco, you would go into a coma or seizures or hypertensive crisis from taking antidepressants while smoking. (Serotonin syndrome or norepinephrine excess.) (I would go into the pharmacodynamics of that, but the post would be way too long and boring.) This doesn't happen, fortunately.

I am SO glad to find this thread. I've been vaping for 2 weeks and off analogs for one week, okay, no big deal, but my anxiety [false?] has increased radically, which is reinforced by my blood pressure going from 135 to 167 in the same time.

Seems to be a vicious circle, but certainly glad to read others understand it.

So, my body should regenerate the MAO's in two weeks? [one week to go, eh?] Meanwhile I should stop taking my BP readings because they scare the hell of out me, which increases my anxiety, which increases my BP, etc, round and round.

 

[maureengill]

Do we need a sub-category where we can talk about our respective mental illnesses and the meds we take to combat them?

I think that is a great idea...I'm sure it would be a large group...

Maureen

 

[RedZone]

RobertPri, you are hitting stage 1 hypertension levels w/ your Systolic side, and you should monitor more frequently, rather than ignore!

I know, as a short time after my Father passed away, I ignored Stage 1, and ended up in the emergency room with a BP of 196/119, and a nitro tab shoved under my tongue. (Talk about crashing your BP!)

It took me a year to get off meds after that, but I made it!
No one should ignore elevated BP's, but the problem is, if you go see a Doc. they will put you on meds, and the way the meds affect your body, it's very difficult to get back off them.

My Systolic pressure dropped another 10 points, about 2-3 weeks after quitting analogs. But, I also upped my exercise level...

 

[sugahness]

FWIW: Having never been prescribed an antidepressant b4, I was hesitant (I dunno why) when my doc suggested Bupropion 150mg SR (generic Wellbutrin) saying it had helped other of his patients while quitting cigs. (I didn't know about E-Cigs yet!) Thankfully, I haven't had any of the "warned" side-effects, and I think it really has helped me transition, along with my trusty e-cigs, and not substituting FOOD for my oral-gratification!

"Bupropion (Wellbutrin, Zyban), previously known as amfebutamone,[1] is an atypical antidepressant and smoking cessation aid. It acts as a strong norepinephrine and weak dopamine reuptake inhibitor, as well as α3β4-nicotinic receptor antagonist.[2][3] Bupropion belongs to the chemical class of aminoketones and is similar in structure to cathinone and diethylpropion, and to phenethylamines in general.

Initially researched and marketed as an antidepressant, bupropion was subsequently found to be effective as a smoking cessation aid. In 2007 it was the fourth-most prescribed antidepressant in the United States retail market, with 20.184 million retail prescriptions.[4]

Bupropion lowers seizure threshold and its potential to cause seizures was widely publicized. However, at the recommended dose the risk of seizures is comparable to that observed for other antidepressants. Bupropion is an effective antidepressant on its own but it is particularly popular as an add-on medication in the cases of incomplete response to the first-line selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressant. In contrast to many other antidepressants, bupropion does not cause weight gain or sexual dysfunction...." (Wikipedia)

 

[robertpri]

RobertPri, you are hitting stage 1 hypertension levels w/ your Systolic side, and you should monitor more frequently, rather than ignore!

I know, as a short time after my Father passed away, I ignored Stage 1, and ended up in the emergency room with a BP of 196/119, and a nitro tab shoved under my tongue. (Talk about crashing your BP!)

It took me a year to get off meds after that, but I made it!
No one should ignore elevated BP's, but the problem is, if you go see a Doc. they will put you on meds, and the way the meds affect your body, it's very difficult to get back off them.

My Systolic pressure dropped another 10 points, about 2-3 weeks after quitting analogs. But, I also upped my exercise level...

Many thanks for your advice and concern.
I am already on 10mg of Norvasc\day due to increasing BP after wife died last year. I could not get over grief and depression. It worked for many months, and I do monitor 3-4 x/ week, and it was holding around 130.

Quitting analogs pushed it up to 165-170 in a couple of days, so I made an doc appt for tomorrow.

Good information is "everything"! As I read countless posts on this thread and realized the effects of MAOI withdrawal, it became clear that the increased BP was caused by my own circular reinforcing fears

> +BP = fear = +BP, = fear, etc.

plus eliminating the anti depressants in tobacco chemicals. A double whammo!

I got on the treadmill for 20 hard minutes, then relaxed for a while, then took my BP. It dropped from the prior reading of 167 to 139. Down almost 30 points! It was a combination of many things.

So, I feel much better now, thanks to a little exercise, and convincing myself that the increased BP was a common side affect of quitting analogs, and the wonderful information on this site that explained what was happening to me.

I could not have made the transition from analogs to e-cigs without the fantastic support and information from people on this site.

Many thanks to all!

 

[thoqub]

St. Johns wort is a mild MAOI, this can be bought in a liquid extract which (possibly) could be added to the ejuice, however MAOIs are known to counterreact with antidepressants (SSRIs), so make sure that if you are on these that you DO NOT try it. When I had an allergic reaction to Zoloft, I consulted a friend, who has a degree in herbalism, on whether or not there were any natural things that I could take and she recommended St. John's Wort, she typed me an article (from a book) about it and told me that if I was taking a different SSRI that I should not try it out. I later found out that an herbal pill I was taking before I was prescribed the Zoloft (called Serenity) contained extracts of St. Johns Wort, which had absolutely no effect on me. Just my 2 cents...


St John's wort - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The extract can be bought here:


Herb Pharm, St. John's Wort, 1 fl oz (29.6 ml) - iHerb.com