ADDICTS, and nicotine...

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NCC

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Just that the caffeine habit is seen as benign (a non issue) while nicotine is the devil incarnate. They're equally harmful in my eyes.

I also see a reality break in alcohol being legal whereas pot isn't. It's child's play to prove alcohol is a bigger problem in every way than legal.

Just a matter of money. That's what it's all about.
 

StarsAndBars

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There are different kinds of addiction. Some are psychological, others are chemical, physical, some are all of the above. Nicotine is medically proven to be chemically addictive. Caffeine is also addictive. When I say addicted, I mean to say the addictive substance causes a physical, chemical dependency. Wow after proof reading that post it is really boring.
 

THE

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There are different kinds of addiction. Some are psychological, others are chemical, physical, some are all of the above. Nicotine is medically proven to be chemically addictive. Caffeine is also addictive. When I say addicted, I mean to say the addictive substance causes a physical, chemical dependency. Wow after proof reading that post it is really boring.

Boring or not, it makes perfect sense.
 

PaulB

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As I understand it, the medical definition of "addiction" has been messed with in recent decades to include a lot of habits not previously under its umbrella. The one element I'm aware of that used to be a prerequisite to calling something an "addiction" is tolerance--the ever-increasing need for more of the substance to achieve the needed effect (and the resultant danger of overdose). Can you imagine how many packs a day we'd have to smoke after twenty years (or what kind of nic levels we'd have to vape as the years passed) if we had built up a tolerance to nicotine? This change of definition made it easier to pull in any number of habits under the "addiction" umbrella. It's a useful crisis word, and it's a useful hate word. Maybe that's an OK change policy-wise, but I find the imprecision in medical/scientific terminology a bit disturbing.
 
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Magus86

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Just that the caffeine habit is seen as benign (a non issue) while nicotine is the devil incarnate. They're equally harmful in my eyes.

I also see a reality break in alcohol being legal whereas pot isn't. It's child's play to prove alcohol is a bigger problem in every way than legal.

Just a matter of money. That's what it's all about.

Oh god, don't even get me started about alcohol and pot... That one really pisses me off. What happens if you smoke too much pot? You fall asleep. What happens if you drink too much alcohol? You puke your guts out, you pass out, or you die... Or perhaps a combination of all three. And by the way, you can actually die from drinking too much water. I'm not about to suggest that water should be regulated or banned, but if they're going to pretend to care about our health/well-being, you'd think they would ban the one that actually causes people to die.

But personally I believe that you should be able to do whatever you want as long as you're not infringing on the rights of others or causing them harm. That includes all "hard" drugs. I think they should certainly be discouraged, but it should be our choice. Take a look at what happened when they made alcohol illegal. Now take a look at the way things are today with drugs being illegal. See a connection? Obviously people aren't going to stop doing drugs entirely, and making them illegal just creates a black market and gangs. It makes the illegal drugs more expensive and harder to obtain, increasing the likelihood of some junkie stealing your DVD player to go get his fix. When alcohol was legal, you didn't see gangsters running around the streets of Chicago firing tommy guns at each other. After it became legal again, that went away. That should tell you something.

Before I get flamed or whatever, I'm not trying to promote drug use one bit. They're horrible for you, and they will do horrible things to you. But you should have the choice. And honestly, I see no difference between someone who needs to snort coke every day to be happy and someone who needs to take an anti-depressant every day to be happy. They're both addictions, and I think it's wrong for anybody to tell you what you're allowed to be addicted to.
 
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THE

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Just that the caffeine habit is seen as benign (a non issue) while nicotine is the devil incarnate. They're equally harmful in my eyes.

I also see a reality break in alcohol being legal whereas pot isn't. It's child's play to prove alcohol is a bigger problem in every way than legal.

Just a matter of money. That's what it's all about.

I know that supposedly 90% of the world pop is addicted to caffeine. But coffee isn't going to have all of the carcinogen laden tar painting your lungs that cigarettes would. I have heard that coffee has had loose links to digestive tract cancers.. ??

But really, coffee is nowhere near as dangerous as smoking..

If you're talking about nicotine, pretty much by itself through a safe delivery method such as vaping .... I have to agree, nicotine itself I don't think is much more dangerous than caffeine. I don't see a-lot of clear info out there about nicotine by itself. I have read that it is linked to heart disease somehow and I know it's a vasoconstrictor.

But caffeine does some strange things to the nervous system. So it's just as bad as nicotine if we're not talking about possible consequences of the two addictions and just comparing the substances themselves

Caffeine and nicotine together have a bad effect on me as I am a borderline schizo.. And either one without the other is very bad with me.

Oh and interesting fact... with nicotine in you, you need twice the caffeine for the same effect it'd have on a non nicotine nervous system.. So when someone stops using nicotine, and keeps the same amount of caffeine use, they often get all jittery and excited because they are experiencing the full effect of the caffeine then

I agree .. alcohol is a terrible thing .. But the people wanted it, they were ready to put the government out to keep it ..... the people are supposed to have what they want, no matter how bad it is. . I think the difference is, drunks, we'll use bats and knives and guns and :censored: if you try to take our alcohol - because we're stupid - but potheads would just lay there crying about it

Stoners and drunks don't get a-long in my world no matter how much I am told that they do

But I've been considering learning how to smoke it so I won't drink
I tried it four times, real expensive strong stuff each time, and it always made me scared and mad and upset and dangerous - why does everyone say it's so calming ... I'm considering trying some more to see if I "get use to it"

I still can't stand most stoners. God they're annoying. Not as bad as drunks though, I guess.
 
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JeffTM

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As a mental health clinician who works with addicts and has dealt with several addictions myself, I can tell you this:

Addiction is actually not a medical term, the proper medical term is "[enter substance here] dependent". Individuals can be caffeine dependent, ......... dependent, alcohol dependent, and most certainly nicotine dependent. According to the DSM-IV-TR Dependence is identified by certain criteria, including tolerance, withdrawal and using despite consequences just to name a few.

Since the term "addict" lacks a sufficient definition by the medical community, it's open to a lot of interpretation and has developed some nasty connotations. Many people associate the word "addict" with a hobo sitting by a dumpster smoking crack or a junkie passed out on a public toilet with a needle in his/her arm. My understanding of an "addict" is simply a person who has become either physically or psychologically dependent on a substance or behavior and has seemingly lost his or her power to stop without help. It has nothing little to do with how damaging the behavior or substance is.
 

cobaltblue

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As I understand it, the medical definition of "addiction" has been messed with in recent decades to include a lot of habits not previously under its umbrella. The one element I'm aware of that used to be a prerequisite to calling something an "addiction" is tolerance--the ever-increasing need for more of the substance to achieve the needed effect (and the resultant danger of overdose). Can you imagine how many packs a day we'd have to smoke after twenty years (or what kind of nic levels we'd have to vape as the years passed) if we had built up a tolerance to nicotine? This change of definition made it easier to pull in any number of habits under the "addiction" umbrella. It's a useful crisis word, and it's a useful hate word. Maybe that's an OK change policy-wise, but I find the imprecision in medical/scientific terminology a bit disturbing.

I so agree.
 

cobaltblue

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As a mental health clinician who works with addicts and has dealt with several addictions myself, I can tell you this:

Addiction is actually not a medical term, the proper medical term is "[enter substance here] dependent". Individuals can be caffeine dependent, ......... dependent, alcohol dependent, and most certainly nicotine dependent. According to the DSM-IV-TR Dependence is identified by certain criteria, including tolerance, withdrawal and using despite consequences just to name a few.

Since the term "addict" lacks a sufficient definition by the medical community, it's open to a lot of interpretation and has developed some nasty connotations. Many people associate the word "addict" with a hobo sitting by a dumpster smoking crack or a junkie passed out on a public toilet with a needle in his/her arm. My understanding of an "addict" is simply a person who has become either physically or psychologically dependent on a substance or behavior and has seemingly lost his or her power to stop without help. It has nothing little to do with how damaging the behavior or substance is.

I agree. The thing I have the hardest time with is the negative spin "antis" put on vaping. Like you said, it gives the impression we're no different than "a junkie passed out...with a needle in his arm".
 

ropetrick

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I guess my use of "addict" is more clinical. I'm not judging anyone, including myself. It's just the most convenient way of talking about the fact of the physical addiction to a chemical.

By the way, my caffeine addiction is arguably worse. I might be a ....... off nicotine, but I'd just be asleep off caffeine. Much less productive. ;-)
 

THE

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Hey now...what's wrong with video games...and sports :ohmy::laugh:

Nothing, if they don't dominate ones life.
All I see that stuff doing is consuming peoples time and helping them avoid watching what the government is up to or what is happening around them in their lives. I know a-lot of people who waste every free second messing with sporting events and video games. It is a mess
 

jdh5484

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I have to agree that, IMO, "addict" and "addicted" are used to frequently. As far as me being addicted to nicotine, I think I was addicted to all the other crap they put in cigs. The first week of no analogs I vaped until I had a pending nic od (dizzy,fast pulse, massive headache) yet I still wanted "something". Well, it wasn't nic. What was it? Don't know, don't care. I forced myself through it (now knowing for SURE that it wasn't nic cravings) and after a week the craving "something" stopped. 1.5 months later and I'm down to 2 ml/day of 3mg.

Was I addicted to nicotine? I don't think so. Did I have and still have a habit of reaching into my pocket, pulling something out, sucking on it and blowing out "smoke". Yup. But that's a habit that I'll break when I'm good and damn ready!

Now, Sports Video games...:headbang:
(j/k)
 

191ahc

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I have to agree that, IMO, "addict" and "addicted" are used to frequently. As far as me being addicted to nicotine, I think I was addicted to all the other crap they put in cigs. The first week of no analogs I vaped until I had a pending nic od (dizzy,fast pulse, massive headache) yet I still wanted "something". Well, it wasn't nic. What was it? Don't know, don't care. I forced myself through it (now knowing for SURE that it wasn't nic cravings) and after a week the craving "something" stopped. 1.5 months later and I'm down to 2 ml/day of 3mg.

Was I addicted to nicotine? I don't think so. Did I have and still have a habit of reaching into my pocket, pulling something out, sucking on it and blowing out "smoke". Yup. But that's a habit that I'll break when I'm good and damn ready!

Now, Sports Video games...:headbang:
(j/k)

I'm with you. There IS SOMETHING else that analogs gave me...and I was habituated to...but I powered through and only vape now. MistressNomad at Vapormuse suggests that it is MAOIs in analogs and I have to concurr. But after 3 weeks even that addiction has settled down...it is getting better day to day.

BTW: looking at your sig, I am horrified at the amount of tar and CO I have consummed over the years! Holy Cow!
 

jdh5484

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I'm with you. There IS SOMETHING else that analogs gave me...and I was habituated to...but I powered through and only vape now. MistressNomad at Vapormuse suggests that it is MAOIs in analogs and I have to concur. But after 3 weeks even that addiction has settled down...it is getting better day to day.

BTW: looking at your sig, I am horrified at the amount of tar and CO I have consumed over the years! Holy Cow!

Congrats on the three week mark! Yeah...the sig really hits home for me. I wish I could list all the other crap in cigs also, but that would take a few pages!

oh, 191, here's the damage for me since I've been smoking:
VSig


For us metric challenged: 104.3 ounces or 6.5 lbs of TAR.
 
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THE

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Congrats on the three week mark! Yeah...the sig really hits home for me. I wish I could list all the other crap in cigs also, but that would take a few pages!

oh, 191, here's the damage for me since I've been smoking:
VSig


For us metric challenged: 104.3 ounces or 6.5 lbs of TAR.


Here it is, up close, and personal:
cigarette_tar02.jpg

^^^There's a 100W light bulb behind the bottle!!
cigarette_tar03.jpg

cigarette_tar04.jpg

cigarette_tar05.jpg
 

Torrentula81

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Nicotine is an addiction. The word addition to me relates to something I would be ashamed of. So talking about coffee and suger and what not in a thread about nicotine addiction feels more like an attempt to downplay the word. Technically it can be an addiction, but if we're all using english in its proper context here, it doesn't fit. I am ashamed (maybe to strong of word) that I still smoke. That will carry over to my addiction to nicotine as well. I'm not ashamed to vape because that's a step foreword but again, I'm not proud that I'm still on nicotine. No one should is my personal belief. Before this thread turned into FDA posts, I am writing about the OP. We should feel that negative stigma when someone uses the word addiction at us. I would rather feel guilt then continue to be blind. The best we can do is beat this thing. Just because there's no tar involved doesn't mean its no longer an ugly addiction as it was before. If my son never smoked cigs but needed to vape for the nic, yep, I call that an addiction.
That's brutal honesty to myself. See it for what it is. I see posts where people act like oh, I'll smoke my pv for the rest of my life while others plan to quit vaping eventually. I all of us should have the later in mind as or ultimate goal even of it doesn't happen. I don't know about you all but sucking on the end of an atty isn't appealing to me albeit more so then an analog. Just putting this all in perspective.
 
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Magus86

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I agree .. alcohol is a terrible thing .. But the people wanted it, they were ready to put the government out to keep it ..... the people are supposed to have what they want, no matter how bad it is. . I think the difference is, drunks, we'll use bats and knives and guns and :censored: if you try to take our alcohol - because we're stupid - but potheads would just lay there crying about it

Stoners and drunks don't get a-long in my world no matter how much I am told that they do

But I've been considering learning how to smoke it so I won't drink
I tried it four times, real expensive strong stuff each time, and it always made me scared and mad and upset and dangerous - why does everyone say it's so calming ... I'm considering trying some more to see if I "get use to it"

I still can't stand most stoners. God they're annoying. Not as bad as drunks though, I guess.

LOL, yeah, we probably would just lay there and cry about it, unfortunately. It IS very calming and relaxing, and it mellows us out. But it can also energize. It depends on what kind it is.

Alcohol is terrible for you compared to pot, but I'm not trying to suggest that alcohol should be illegal; simply that it should be if pot is. I don't think ANYTHING should be illegal that doesn't directly infringe on the rights of someone else. If it hurts the individual who's doing it and nobody else, who cares? The government allows you to destroy yourself thru other means. Why can't we choose how we want to kill ourselves? And besides, SOMETHING's gotta kill you, and you can't live forever, so just pick your damn poison, shut up, and let everyone else have theirs too. I don't know why some people are just hell bent on imposing their will on others. Anyway, the reason pot's illegal has to do with controlling mexican immigrants and hemp being a possible competitor of the paper business(made from trees, I mean), and absolutely NOTHING to do with any "harm" it will cause.

The difference between drunks and stoners is it's almost impossible to get into a fight when you're high. You're too lazy, don't give a damn, or you're too busy laughing/thinking deeply about god knows what.

As far as what pot did to you, I have no idea why it would do that. It never happens to me. The ONLY time I"m "paranoid" is when I see cops, and that happens whether I'm high or even doing anything illegal or not.
 

THE

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LOL, yeah, we probably would just lay there and cry about it, unfortunately. It IS very calming and relaxing, and it mellows us out. But it can also energize. It depends on what kind it is.

Alcohol is terrible for you compared to pot, but I'm not trying to suggest that alcohol should be illegal; simply that it should be if pot is. I don't think ANYTHING should be illegal that doesn't directly infringe on the rights of someone else. If it hurts the individual who's doing it and nobody else, who cares? The government allows you to destroy yourself thru other means. Why can't we choose how we want to kill ourselves? And besides, SOMETHING's gotta kill you, and you can't live forever, so just pick your damn poison, shut up, and let everyone else have theirs too. I don't know why some people are just hell bent on imposing their will on others. Anyway, the reason pot's illegal has to do with controlling mexican immigrants and hemp being a possible competitor of the paper business(made from trees, I mean), and absolutely NOTHING to do with any "harm" it will cause.

The difference between drunks and stoners is it's almost impossible to get into a fight when you're high. You're too lazy, don't give a damn, or you're too busy laughing/thinking deeply about god knows what.

As far as what pot did to you, I have no idea why it would do that. It never happens to me. The ONLY time I"m "paranoid" is when I see cops, and that happens whether I'm high or even doing anything illegal or not.


Yeah, I am told that alcohol attacks every cell in ones body.. and believe me, it does.. Plus, I use to have a very high IQ, was pretty much ready for college classes when I was twelve.... My own house when I was fifteen!! The genius boy who could do all of the math and spell everything and out think or talk circles around people twice my age and beyond..

After all of the drinking I've done, I think that I dumbed myself way the hell down. I have not been good to myself in the past half decade or allowed myself to make very much money or to be very healthy.. I seem to continue with my ability to solve problems for people I care for, but I don't seem to make terribly wonderful choices any more.

They say that weed kills your memory, well I think that nicotine and alcohol together do the same thing.. I can't remember ANYTHING from the past, any more. It's like I'm going through my days as one of those 10 second memory people. It's all still in there, because things from the past will be called up at the strangest times. But I am beyond being able to pull things up at my own will.

It could be because of some rough things from my childhood.. but I think that alcohol+nicotine have had a bad effect on my brain. I'm 100% sure that alcohol has.. I learn now that brain cells do regenerate, but who knows. I've seen the brain scans of a drunk or other drug user compared with a healthy one, and it doesn't look good.

I think that people should have every right to do anything that they want up to the point where it affects others. Just like corporations don't usually have to deal with compensating people for damage done by externalities, a-lot of drug abusers thrust their problems onto the rest of us to deal with.

Even me, the great length I go to in order to NOT be a drain on society won't matter if I ever was forced to have a hospital stay, because I don't have the insurance to pay for it. I've said NO to a few hundred monthly checks I could have gotten from the government, so that makes me feel better. But most drug abusers haven't, and then they STILL expect medical like a god given right.

So to me I think, well, the people absolutely have the right to anything they want, but when there are externalities ... the right isn't there anymore. If a pile of drunks and stoners in this country want to live on government money and health care, they should lose the right to do it.

Does that mean that productive stoners and drunks who pay taxes and insure themselves should be denied THEIR right to do it? Hell no.... But if we end up with it being a majority of them not doing so, then maybe they should

It's a tough decision with no clear cut answer.
It's about rights of the people - but everyone has a different peoples rights in mind

Then you have the issue of everyone screaming about us being a democracy here in our constitutional republic.. In America here the majority isn't supposed to rule an individual or violate his rights. That's why if someone buys all of the property around you, and you're completely surrounded by his land, you are the dominant property with rights to access through his property.

But it again comes back to what one group of people is doing to another.
The stoners and drunks have the right to be that
The rest of everyone has a right to not suffer from it or be affected by it

There really is no answer and I'm rambling at this point

LoL
 
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