ALL VAPERS look at this pic! what do you think?

[Bramble]

We had the requirements of a Whitehouse petition to get action. Do you know what they did? They handed it off to the FDA who is against us to give us some BS answer. And where are we with the FDA now? Have they backed off trying to kill ecigs?

The Change.org type petitions are even more worthless.
I'm glad you feel like you're doing something but you're not. If you want a petition print up some hard copies to abide by the law and hit the streets. Actually do something. That is the only way petitions matter.

You're a lot better off sending an email to the politicians, but even that isn't overly great. It is good for out of staters because they don't need to make a point of where they are from.
If you can send a hard copy, make a phone call or actually go in person.

As far as the NIMBY comment. If you'd like I'll take that position and not help you guys next time if that's what you'd like. Maybe the extent of my help will be to sign an internet petition next time since that's what you think helps so much.
Should I actually take the time to write out an email? Not for the type of thanks you offer. I'll click a button instead. That'll help.





So you're saying internet petitions matter? That would figure. Push for something else that has no effect other than to make people think they did something so they don't do something that actually works.

This is all true, it's often called "slacktivism." They have some limited uses, and I will generally add my name to the ones I think will help in some way -- but since most of them just send a form email to the recipient, they are generally ignored (actually even worse, they tend to be written off as spam).

If you call, you are often talking with an intern who may or may not get a message to the representative. If you can call and speak directly to your rep, that's great and will often help. A heartfelt email to your representative can be very useful and much more likely to get a response (as opposed to signing a petition or leaving a message). At least that has been my experience, I've been an activist for many years.

 

[stevegmu]

My guess would be it is simply a generic sign a manager bought through one of their vendors...

 

[AndriaD]

My question is, do they actually OWN 50 ft away from their doors?

And who's going to subject violators to a fine, if there is no ordinance? If there is no actual law, there is no law broken, and thus, there cannot be a fine.

And as for speaking with one's representatives... how about their Facebook page? A citizen may not ever be able to get an actual elected official on the phone, or in person and actually paying attention to you and not to their chief of staff or schedule or whatever. But a Facebook page can be read by the representative, as well as by any other of that rep's constituents.

Andria

 

[Benzin]

Honestly....with sub-ohm vaping gaining a popularity, and more and more people cloud chasing and blowing HUGE plumes of vapor in public....it shouldn't surprise anyone one bit that more and more establishments are going to ban vaping.

I'm not against cloud chasing at all, but I'm also not against businesses choosing what they allow, or don't allow, on their own property.

Heck, if a business posts a sign saying "MUST WEAR BLUE SHIRTS ONLY", that is THEIR imperative...and there is nothing wrong with that, aside from the fact that it will obviously kill their business from lack of customers.


Vaping is relatively new (5 years, give or take), and it looks very similar to smoking, so it is understandable that establishments might not want people to vape in front of/in their stores. Add sub-ohm vaping and mods that look like bricks to the mix, and it just adds fuel to the fire.

Im not trying to critizise or "bash" on people who do sub-ohming. That being said, i completely agree with you, and i might add that i see another thing that worries me....

Some day, some new guy with his cuad coil RDA + Mech rig will come into a restaurant, and after annoying the heck out of other people with his "huge clouds", his battery will vent in front of everybody (because he dint even know about amps and battery safety, or he "forgot" that battery was only 10A or pick your reason). God Forbid anyone else besides him gets hurt. Because this will be the perfect fuel politicians need to say "see!!?? its a public hazard!!! worst and more dangerous that cigarettes!! lets bann it to protect the public!".

just my

 

[Myk]

This is all true, it's often called "slacktivism." They have some limited uses, and I will generally add my name to the ones I think will help in some way -- but since most of them just send a form email to the recipient, they are generally ignored (actually even worse, they tend to be written off as spam).

If you call, you are often talking with an intern who may or may not get a message to the representative. If you can call and speak directly to your rep, that's great and will often help. A heartfelt email to your representative can be very useful and much more likely to get a response (as opposed to signing a petition or leaving a message). At least that has been my experience, I've been an activist for many years.

Calls and letters are supposed to get marked on a side even if they don't actually see/hear them. Email is supposed to but it's also easy to delete when the box is full, some are treating them like letters though. I noticed HI had emails entered into the record.
I have had luck with getting responses to emails with local councils. From feds I've only gotten responses to positive emails. Rarely (VERY) a response to hard copy negative letters and sometimes a response to positive ones. (I also had a state senator steal my money for a flag and then ignore letters trying to straighten it out.)
The Twitter Slacktivism I'm not so sure about. I know a lot of them think they are spam bots and not real people clicking a button. but at least you know they get noticed because they can't delete them and they have to scroll through them to get to other comments. When they reply to a "spam bot" out of frustration it can open a conversation.

 

[stevegmu]

Correspondence with state reps is filtered down through staffers. How do I know? It is what I used to do back in the day at the Hart Senate building...

 

[sawtoothscream]

Their company, their rules and its not even that bad. To many vapors seem to be real cry babies about not being able to vape anywhere they please.

 

[Lessifer]

My question is, do they actually OWN 50 ft away from their doors?

And who's going to subject violators to a fine, if there is no ordinance? If there is no actual law, there is no law broken, and thus, there cannot be a fine.

And as for speaking with one's representatives... how about their Facebook page? A citizen may not ever be able to get an actual elected official on the phone, or in person and actually paying attention to you and not to their chief of staff or schedule or whatever. But a Facebook page can be read by the representative, as well as by any other of that rep's constituents.

Andria

Probably not, as they probably don't own the building either, but they do pay to rent it and I'm guessing the surrounding area. I think that's why they can designate certain parking spots as their to-go parking. As for the fine, there probably IS a fine associated with a citation for smoking inside, and they didn't feel like having two separate signs.

 

[razor4432]

Local Ford dealership has a sign that says no smoking, e-cigarettes or vapor allowed in buildings. I feel it is simply being respectful to all patrons. Even being a smoker and going to the bowling alley while smoking was still allowed I never once smoked inside because I know a lot of people don't like it and I respect their right to enjoy spending time with family and friends without me making it smell like ash tray. Just because we aren't smoking doesn't give us the right to use our PV wherever we choose to.

Remember, if it looks like smoking ...

 

[Zach904]

I think someone ought to sue Chilis for making fraudulent claims.. There is no way they can fine a person outside the restaurant. And it is wrong of them to pretend they have the authority to do so.

 

[jhelliwell]

On a similar note, I went into a cafe to grab a coffee the other day, and as I turned the door handle to get in, I read the sign on the door saying "No E-Cigarettes Allowed". I didn't intend to vape inside anyway, but I still did a 180 and went to the next cafe down the road. I didn't vape in there either, I just didn't want to passively accept the BS from the first one.

 

[JoeDerty]

it is what it is

 

[CommaHolly]

I'm sorry, I don't get the problem,,,,,,their property, their rules. IF, however, less than 50 feet puts you on PUBLIC property, then I don't see how they can enforce it,,,,,

I'd also like to know how they enforce the fine.

 

[CommaHolly]

I treat those signs like the signs the stores post to say no concealed weapons, I gladly honor their wishes by spending my money with their competitors. Buckeye Firearms has business cards that I carry with to give to shops with no guns postings to tell them I have decided to honor their wishes by shopping with their competitor. Maybe we should have the same kind of business cards to pass out to anti vaping establishments, let them know their bias is costing them money.

thank you for taking your business,,,,,,and your gun,,,,,,elsewhere.

 

[CommaHolly]

Exactly.

Everyone is so stuck on the "but, but....how could they fine me?" concept. Who cares? The sign is pretty self-explanatory, it means "Don't VAPE HERE".

If it is a city ordinance, then yes, they can fine you.

If it is a private sign, then no, they can just force you to leave, and if you refuse, you WILL get fined, or locked up, maybe that is what they are trying to say, who knows?

The point shouldn't be them saying they will fine you for vaping. The point is they don't want you vaping on their property, how hard is that to respect?


Trust me, I have a rebellious side to me, just like lots of others. As you get older though, you learn to pick and choose your battles. The battle we SHOULD be fighting, is opposing regulations and taxes on e-cig related products. The fight that is going to get us NOWHERE, is arguing with business owner's about what they want, or don't want, on THEIR property.

I get it, I get it....the sign says "fine", and it says "within 50 feet". Perhaps the owner's ex-wife recently left him for a vaper....who knows, lol. My point is it isn't worth it. Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions, I'm just stating mine!

well said!!!!!

 

[da_dyno]

wow its starting...

 

[Mutescream]

It's private property, they can do what they want. If they ask you to leave, and you refuse, then you are trespassing.

If you do not like it, vote with your wallet. It may even be a local ordinance. I know that in Dec, Marion County made it illegal to vape anywhere it is illegal to smoke.

Btw, I think it sucks... But, that is the price one pays for living in a politically divided state.

 

[Bunnykiller]

by the time you get close enuf while smoking/vaping to read the sign you have already "broken the law"....

 

[Bunnykiller]

Hmmm I wonder if there is a booth/table more than 50' from the entrance (door where sign is posted) if there is then.... a vaping table is available

 

[zoiDman]

...

So you're saying internet petitions matter? That would figure. Push for something else that has no effect other than to make people think they did something so they don't do something that actually works.

I'm say'n that it is Hard Enough to get People to do Something, Anything, without telling people that it Doesn't Matter.

Look at this Thread. A over 150 Posts about a Sign Posted at a Chilies. But did Anyone Actually call the Chilies to Find out if it was Real? I posted the Phones Numbers Twice.

I wonder how Likely it is to Get Someone to Sign a Petition or e-Mail their Rep when it's Hard to get someone to Pick Up their phone and Dial a Number?

Especially when you have a Person/Persons say'n that it Doesn't Matter what they do Anyway.