Am I the only one panicking about diketones??

[Dominique Hoogduin]

I honestly hope to lose each and every one of you as a customer, someday. Despite the fact that we stand to profit by providing you with an option to traditional analog cigarettes, it's our sincerest hope that one day you lay put your mod down and cast aside all risks associated with inhaling anything except what God and nature intended.

That would require moving out of the major city i live in and into a wild untouched part of nature.. wich is nowhere to be found here As said before.. the air quality in just about every major city is hazardous. Unless they all start driving electric within the next 30 years we wont be better off :0

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

That would require moving out of the major city i live in and into a wild untouched part of nature.. wich is nowhere to be found here As said before.. the air quality in just about every major city is hazardous. Unless they all start driving electric within the next 30 years we wont be better off :0

So true! Due to the thermal inversion in Denver my doctor said living there equals a half pack of cigs a day in lung damage. And people are jogging in that! Blows the mind. SMH

 

[Giraut]

The way I see the risks of vaping can be summed up thusly:

Risk level 0: not breathing.
Risk level 1: breathing clean air
...
Risk level 5: breathing slightly polluted city air
Risk level 6: vaping glycerin
Risk level 7: Vaping glycerin and nic
Risk level 8: Vaping glycerin, PG and nic
...
Risk level 12: Vaping glycerin, PG, nic and whatever chemicals happen to be present in flavoring
...
Risk level 20: light smoking (1 or 2 per day)
...
Risk level 30: medium smoking (5-10 per day)
...
Risk level 40: Living in Beijing
...
Risk level 50: Heavy smoking (1 pack or more per day)

I accept risk level 12, mostly because I come from 50. If I ever feel some odd effect due to an ingredient I can identify (such as PG for me), I'll take it out of the equation. I know that if worse comes to worst, I can fall back on unflavored VG and nic for minimal risk vaping that'll keep me off cigarettes. But I'm pretty sure I can't eliminate nic without going right back to cigarettes.

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Nicely put!

Although Denver air is between 30 and 50 as it is that bad when the inversion is really bad...

A student of mine just moved here from LA and her asthma was fine there but here she has had to go to the emergency room often and she has a huge collection of meds she is on...

 

[Dominique Hoogduin]

The way I see the risks of vaping can be summed up thusly:

Risk level 0: not breathing.
Risk level 1: breathing clean air
...
Risk level 5: breathing slightly polluted city air
Risk level 6: Vaping glycerin
Risk level 7: Vaping glycerin and nic
Risk level 8: Vaping glycerin, PG and nic
...
Risk level 12: Vaping glycerin, PG, nic and whatever chemicals happen to be present in flavoring
...
Risk level 20: light smoking (1 or 2 per day)
...
Risk level 30: medium smoking (5-10 per day)
...
Risk level 40: Living in Beijing
...
Risk level 50: Heavy smoking (1 pack or more per day)

I accept risk level 12, mostly because I come from 50. If I ever feel some odd effect due to an ingredient I can identify (such as PG for me), I'll take it out of the equation. I know that if worse comes to worst, I can fall back on unflavored VG and nic for minimal risk vaping that'll keep me off cigarettes. But I'm pretty sure I can't eliminate nic without going right back to cigarettes.

hmm perhaps diluting the lowest NIC to even lower? less and less nic intake over a long period will do wonders i guess

 

[Giraut]

hmm perhaps diluting the lowest NIC to even lower? less and less nic intake over a long period will do wonders i guess

I'm at 4 mg most of the time, coming from 12. But there's a point of diminishing return, at which I've noticed I vape more to make up for the lower nic level. In other words, if I go too low on nic, I inhale more of the carrier chemicals that strictly necessary.

I lower my nic intake to try and get my body used to not having it slowly, but at the end of the day, I'd rather vape A ml at B mg than 2xA ml at B/2 mg, to inhale less flavorings for a given amount of nic.

Another thing that seems to work for me is carrying a bottle of 12 mg nic juice with me, along with my regular 4 mg bottle(s): if I start craving, I vape 10 drops of the stronger stuff, then go back to the weaker stuff. That way I don't chain-vape. With that method, cravings happen less and less often, and I stay on the weaker juices a lot longer. I'm hoping to stay on the 4 mg juices permanently eventually, at which point I'll switch to 2 mg. We'll see. What matters is, I never feel guilty when I go back to 12 mg juice temporarily - as opposed to lighting up a cigarette after having quit

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Actually from all the most recent studies nicotine is the least harmful of all the ingredients in vape liquid. For instance they are putting nicotine patches on nonsmokers who have Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and age related dementia with wonderful results. Without all the accompanying crap from cigs nicotine is a wonderful drug apparently. Through smoking people have been killing themselves, true, but perhaps extending their quality of life. Ironic isn't it?

 

[TraceyS]

I've never worried about vaping . One question I have is: Is Kent and Clark the same person?

Traey

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

I've never worried about vaping . One question I have is: Is Kent and Clark the same person?

Traey

Same person. Clark is his middle name and we call him that as Kent is his dad's name too. I think I got that right...

But yes, one man, two names...

 

[motabrownie]

Same person. Clark is his middle name and we call him that as Kent is his dad's name too. I think I got that right...

But yes, one man, two names...

Yeah but have Clark AND Kent been seen in the same room at the same time? Hmmmmmm

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Yeah but have Clark AND Kent been seen in the same room at the same time? Hmmmmmm

Hey...now that you mention it...

 

[DaBucs]

Yeah but have Clark AND Kent been seen in the same room at the same time? Hmmmmmm

sure any room with a mirror

 

[taki1203]

sure any room with a mirror

Bucs wins the internet for today!

 

[Kent Brooks]

Same person. Clark is his middle name and we call him that as Kent is his dad's name too. I think I got that right...

But yes, one man, two names...

Kent Richard Brooks, nick-named Clark because my father was also Kent Brooks... I've been "little Clark" since I was old enough to reach for a bottle of Mtn. Dew.

 

[vangrl27]

There's another variable - exposure. My doctor said to me once... 2-3 cigarettes a day isn't any worse than the air in LA. Honestly, I believe the guy. It's a question of levels of exposure, and what is acceptable vs. what is unacceptable in terms of levels. There is probably some level of exposure to diketones that they will inevitably determine is sufficiently low enough to minimize the risk of potential health consequences, BUT - there is still no substitute for clean, fresh air. Personally, I will take a bottle of eLiquid chock full of diacetyl over a cigarette, although I can't say with absolute certainty that it's safer. The popcorn workers were exposed to extremely high levels/concentrations of diacetyl, which was in every breath they took for as long as they were inside the plant (8-10 hour days), over a period of decades. I'd speculate that even a rabid vaper who consumes nothing but diacetyl based custard flavoring would consume a fraction of that in a lifetime.

I don't share this "opinion" with you to minimize the risk at all, because the risk is real. However, at present there are no known cases of "popcorn workers lung" in the vaping community - but - I don't expect there would be... after all, there hasn't been sufficient time for that kind of malady to manifest at the present levels of exposure. The only prudent advice I can give in the absence of sufficient research to prove or disprove otherwise is this...

I honestly hope to lose each and every one of you as a customer, someday. Despite the fact that we stand to profit by providing you with an option to traditional analog cigarettes, it's our sincerest hope that one day you lay put your mod down and cast aside all risks associated with inhaling anything except what God and nature intended.

" The popcorn workers were exposed to extremely high levels/concentrations of diacetyl, which was in every breath they took for as long as they were inside the plant (8-10 hour days), over a period of decades. "

or of a period of only a few months?


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=21400

" The onset of symptoms associated with fixed airway obstruction has been reported to occur after a few months to several years of exposure to butter flavorings that contained diacetyl in a microwave popcorn production facility"


http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/ajrccm-conference.2013.187.1_MeetingAbstracts.A2081

 

[pwheeler]

I know other vendors who claim their products are "diacetyl free", but only one I have seen disclose the possible hazards of the buttery, creamy flavors is Kent. I, for one, haven't tried CB, CLS or any of those, even before I found out that it was potentially a health concern. I was actually going to get around to it, but I am not sure now. I am stuck on the Virus, and Betelgeuse. I might still try some, but I'd hate to really fall in love with it and want to vape it like mad.

 

[TraceyS]

I know other vendors who claim their products are "diacetyl free", but only one I have seen disclose the possible hazards of the buttery, creamy flavors is Clark. I, for one, haven't tried CB, CLS or any of those, even before I found out that it was potentially a health concern. I was actually going to get around to it, but I am not sure now. I am stuck on the Virus, and Betelgeuse. I might still try some, but I'd hate to really fall in love with it and want to vape it like mad.

You would fall in love with it and vape it like mad. Living proof here....happens fast too.

Tracey

 

[Kent Brooks]

" The popcorn workers were exposed to extremely high levels/concentrations of diacetyl, which was in every breath they took for as long as they were inside the plant (8-10 hour days), over a period of decades. "

or of a period of only a few months?


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=21400

" The onset of symptoms associated with fixed airway obstruction has been reported to occur after a few months to several years of exposure to butter flavorings that contained diacetyl in a microwave popcorn production facility"


An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Wow, great article! Thank you! I stand corrected! Here's some interesting info out of it...

The average full shift air levels of diacetyl in the mixing areas and production locations in close proximity to mixing tanks ranged from 0.2 to 38 ppm.

"For Diacetyl, a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 5 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week. To further protect against effects of short-term exposures, NIOSH recommends in the draft document a short-term exposure limit (STEL) for diacetyl of 25 ppb for a 15-minute time period."

Although my liquid doesn't contain diacetyl, I would be interested in seeing what the Time Weighted Average of exposure is for an average vaper, who keeps custard "in the rotation", over a period of a week.

 

[mistike]

Kent Richard Brooks, nick-named Clark because my father was also Kent Brooks... I've been "little Clark" since I was old enough to reach for a bottle of Mtn. Dew.

There are only one other man named Clark Kent... not the worst company to be with

 

[vangrl27]

Wow, great article! Thank you! I stand corrected! Here's some interesting info out of it...

The average full shift air levels of diacetyl in the mixing areas and production locations in close proximity to mixing tanks ranged from 0.2 to 38 ppm.

"For Diacetyl, a recommended exposure limit (REL) of 5 parts per billion (ppb) as an eight-hour, time-weighted average, (TWA) during a 40-hour work week. To further protect against effects of short-term exposures, NIOSH recommends in the draft document a short-term exposure limit (STEL) for diacetyl of 25 ppb for a 15-minute time period."

Although my liquid doesn't contain diacetyl, I would be interested in seeing what the Time Weighted Average of exposure is for an average vaper, who keeps custard "in the rotation", over a period of a week.

that indeed is the unanswered question!

"FYI- In a flavoring that has less than 1% (.6%) diacetyl/similar, when used at a mere 2% in a juice, we'd be vaping 1200 ppb"

then corrected

"That should read: "we'd be vaping juice that contains 1200 ppb" - but that doesn't mean there'd be 1200ppb in the vapor that we're vaping."

Honestly, I don't really understand the math in any of this stuff, just wanted to point out that symptoms started showing up much sooner than many think