FDA Am i the only one who thinks SOME of the proposals are sane?

[imb1610]

Listing ingredients on eliquids- This is not exclusive to ecigs foods supposedly do the same. Some might argue "its healthier than analogs." Frankly we as a consumer dont know that and i know its crazy to believe that all vendors would be completely honest but it is a way to hold them liable. To me it sounds perfectly valid but then again maybe im just an odd one i also think Mansanto should be forced to label their foods with GMO + and a health warning on GMO's. Apart from that as a nursing student my patients also come to mind although there has not been any repercussions discovered to ecigs as of now that does not mean there wont be in the future listing ingredients can also help identify and prevent allergies.
Requiring I.D. for purchase- For physical sales it sounds fair i think most of us can agree that these products should be used by adults only.
Listing a surgeon generals warning on eliquid bottles and such- Why not? again nicotine can damage the kidneys as well as cause vasoconstriction which affects people with cardiac problems.

These are points where i believe the FDA has a valid point their motivation for doing this is irrelevant to me.
By no means have i read through all the complaints nor the praises that others have posted.
But still i have not seen too many talk about the potential good that may come of this.
Regardless it is just my 2cents
vape on guys
​

I must apologize five minutes after posting i saw other threads addressing this my bad

 

[DrMA]

I'm afraid so. Read here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-will-address-some-point-next-few-weeks.html

 

[Jman8]

Listing ingredients on eliquids-

I think it ought to be up to the vendor. If a consumer feels this is an issue, then the consumer can go to those vendors who do and avoid those who don't.

Would you like a rule in place whereby federal government forces consumers to list all allergies they have so that vendors can feel they are protected and not held liable based on consumer not engaging in full disclosure?

Requiring I.D. for purchase- For physical sales it sounds fair i think most of us can agree that these products should be used by adults only.

I agree that most of us see this as something that should be done.

I am not one of those people.

Listing a surgeon generals warning on eliquid bottles and such- Why not? again nicotine can damage the kidneys as well as cause vasoconstriction which affects people with cardiac problems.

As long as surgeon general's warning also includes benefits of nicotine use, according to science. Sure, why not?

 

[DeeLeeKay]

What do you mean by listing ingredients?
I read the ingredients on my shampoo bottle and it had almost nothing I can actually pronounce. Is this helpful?

 

[aubergine]

I think some regs sound quite sane - that's actually the problem (one of them). Many of us wouldn't object to mandated ingredient listing, for instance, if reasonably enforced (in a manner that didn't crush small vendors) and accompanied by the friendly withdrawal of much more egregious regulation. Given the certainty that that's not the sort of thing that the FDA has in mind it's kind of moot - it's a give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile situation.
And in fact, they're very likely to simply take that inch in any case, and all the rest as time goes on.
They'd love us to be sanguine and 'reasonable' - no one wants to sound all tin foil hat - but really, there's no compromise in that document. Just a soothing, obfuscating, gradualist approach to handing the whole shebang to BT.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

The posts in this thread are the reason that ECF is the world-class leader in intellectual, thoughtful exchange!

I agree 100% with everything above

These words from 174 years ago are more relevant today than ever before:

Alexis De Tocqueville - "Democracy In America", 1840

A network of small, complicated rules. It does not break wills, but softens them. It does not tyrannize, it hinders, represses, stupefies, and finally it reduces each nation to being nothing more than a flock of timid animals, of which the government is the shepherd.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Requiring I.D. for purchase- For physical sales it sounds fair i think most of us can agree that these products should be used by adults only.

This alone would destroy the Online market.

 

[hudson_macbeth]

This alone would destroy the Online market.

Actually, it wouldn't. You could either A) fax a copy of Id to the vendor or B) do like the porn sites and use the fact of a credit card as being proof of age.

 

[stevegmu]

I just don't understand how some expect e-cigs not to be regulated like other products. Of course child safety caps, warning labels, ingredient lists and age verification should be required. If a shop can't comply, they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Actually, it wouldn't. You could either A) fax a copy of Id to the vendor or B) do like the porn sites and use the fact of a credit card as being proof of age.

Actually it would; in pretty much the same way it did the online sales and shipping of cigarettes. Both A& B were used by sellers. To ensure the market loophole was closed a law was passed. It took awhile but it happened.

 

[Jman8]

I just don't understand how some expect e-cigs not to be regulated like other products. Of course child safety caps, warning labels, ingredient lists and age verification should be required. If a shop can't comply, they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

According to whom?

If a shop can't comply, then perhaps they can cater to an underground market of consumers who don't require these extra things to enjoy the product and who have weighed the risks involved and determined it is a suitable market for them to participate in. IOW, how has the industry gotten to the point of billions of dollars in revenue without these things firmly in place??

All things you have listed as 'reasonable expectations' (and more) can be made more harsh given certain political affiliations and time. Current proposals, as I have said elsewhere, aren't all that harsh, but they do open a door where 'strict control' and 'underground freedom' may be in competition forever and a day unless regulations are, by law, kept in check.

 

[stevegmu]

According to whom?

If a shop can't comply, then perhaps they can cater to an underground market of consumers who don't require these extra things to enjoy the product and who have weighed the risks involved and determined it is a suitable market for them to participate in. IOW, how has the industry gotten to the point of billions of dollars in revenue without these things firmly in place??

All things you have listed as 'reasonable expectations' (and more) can be made more harsh given certain political affiliations and time. Current proposals, as I have said elsewhere, aren't all that harsh, but they do open a door where 'strict control' and 'underground freedom' may be in competition forever and a day unless regulations are, by law, kept in check.

What fantasy world do you live in where consumer products aren't regulated? I'm very surprised regulation hasn't happened years ago.

 

[Jman8]

What fantasy world do you live in where consumer products aren't regulated? I'm very surprised regulation hasn't happened years ago.

Doesn't your second statement answer your first statement/question?

Apparently the same "fantasy world" you reside in.

 

[stevegmu]

Doesn't your second statement answer your first statement/question?

Apparently the same "fantasy world" you reside in.

The difference is, I don't have any hope or expectations of any consumer product going on unregulated forever.

 

[patkin]

So... you mean "warnings" and ingredient labels/net urls/phone numbers have stopped smokers of any age with or without health issues? It seems you want labeling to switch from "informative" to "educational." Those without previous "education" are not going to have any interest no matter how "informative" a label is.

All-in-all, considering a reply, it comes down to this: Just don't smoke or vape and see to it that no one else does as it could be dangerous. And while you're at it, don't eat anything not presented in its "natural" state. And if you, instead, choose to by all means contact the producer to ascertain the growth and mfg conditions of their products but please don't insist I be bothered with all that cumbersome info on the packaging. I suspect, however, that the direction things are headed in, I will be.

 

[stevegmu]

So... you mean "warnings" and ingredient labels/net urls/phone numbers have stopped smokers of any age with or without health issues?

All-in-all, considering a reply, it comes down to this: Just don't smoke or vape and see to it that no one else does. And while you're at it, don't eat anything not presented in its "natural" state. And if you, instead, choose to by all means contact the producer to ascertain the growth and mfg conditions of their products but please don't insist I be bothered with all that cumbersome info on the packaging. I suspect, however, that the direction things are headed in, I will be.

It doesn't matter, whether warning labels or ingredient lists do anything. It takes away liability from the manufacturer or re-seller, which is a good thing.

 

[Jman8]

The difference is, I don't have any hope or expectations of any consumer product going on unregulated forever.

That's not the difference. That's just spin to get out of the trap you made and fell into in this discourse.

The difference is you think regulations should occur. I don't. I expect they will occur, but see them as opening door, wide open, for an underground market.

Tell me, does an underground market, that bypasses (harsh) regulations give you any problem going forward?

 

[stevegmu]

That's not the difference. That's just spin to get out of the trap you made and fell into in this discourse.

The difference is you think regulations should occur. I don't. I expect they will occur, but see them as opening door, wide open, for an underground market.

Tell me, does an underground market, that bypasses (harsh) regulations give you any problem going forward?

Of course there should be regulations. We are talking about ingest ables.
My suppliers will continue to exist. I wouldn't buy from an underground market.

 

[JerryRM]

E-cig regulations, no matter how mild they may appear to be, still frighten me. It's the government that we are talking about, here. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.

 

[Jman8]

My suppliers will continue to exist.

I like your confidence here, and I share it.

I wouldn't buy from an underground market.

That's interesting to know. But doesn't really address what I asked.