And now they're coming after drippers.......Monday morning junk science edition

[zoiDman]

Yes.

All of it.

That misguided studies are being used to fuel public fear, in order to effect or substantiate policy decisions.

The 2nd Isn't very Fightable. Because the % might be moved around by Margin of Error amounts. But the True Population mean kinda Is what it Is.

The 1st can be Challenged with Counter Studies. But that takes Monies beyond what Grass Root Campaigns can generate. Could get Titled Reassures to Expound on a Studies Limitations.

The 3rd is Really what needs to Change. Saying you have to jump over a Bar on a Case by Case bases is kinda like say'n... "We reserve the Right to deny any PMTA if we just happen to feel like it."

Seems like some published Standard Levels should be Established as to what Constitutes an Approvable PMTA for an e-Cigarette/e-liquid. And to what is the Baseline Level of use for Teens no matter what is done Policy Wise.

Right Now, the PMTA process is asking OEM's to jump over Imaginary Bars of Unknown Height.

A New HHS Secretary / FDA Commissionaire should Change This. And should Extend PMTA Submission Deadlines until Standard Levels can be Set.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes.

All of it.

That misguided studies are being used to fuel public fear, in order to effect or substantiate policy decisions.

BTW - If you could Counter all the "High Temp = Toxic vape" studies, but the counter would be to make TC a Requirement of all PMTA approvable mods, would you do it?

 

[Lessifer]

BTW - If you could Counter all the "High Temp = Toxic Vape" studies, but the counter would be to make TC a Requirement of all PMTA approvable Mods, would you do it?

Is that really a counter to the bad studies, or a capitulation?

If TC is really the answer, wouldn't you also have to ensure that users are only using TC coils? Isn't that stepping down the closed system path?

Is it the responsibility of the FDA to make vaping devices zero risk, or is it enough to say it is low risk if used correctly, like they do with pretty much everything else.

 

[NU_FTW]

so in 7 years there has been a couple hundred battery venting/burning/exploding issues.... in those same 7 years how many homes have burned down from smoking, how many forest fires from smoking, how many people died in these fires, how much money was lost in this... stupid media...

 

[zoiDman]

Is that really a counter to the bad studies, or a capitulation?

If TC is really the answer, wouldn't you also have to ensure that users are only using TC coils? Isn't that stepping down the closed system path?

Is it the responsibility of the FDA to make vaping devices zero risk, or is it enough to say it is low risk if used correctly, like they do with pretty much everything else.

Dunno the Answers to Any of your Questions. Not even sure there are Answers?

Just know that TC is something that has been Talked about in the PMTA Process. And when High Temperatures are removed from the Equation, there Aren't many Reputable Studies that show Significant Harm as compared to Combustible Tobacco.

 

[Lessifer]

Dunno the Answers to Any of your Questions. Not even sure there are Answers?

Just know that TC is something that has been Talked about in the PMTA Process. And when High Temperatures are removed from the Equation, there Aren't many Reputable Studies that show Significant Harm as compared to Combustible Tobacco.

I'm just wary of aiming for imaginary goalposts, they seem even easier to move.

 

[puffon]

Wonder what they would think of squonking?

 

[Lessifer]

Wonder what they would think of squonking?

Funny that, I switched to dripping primarily to avoid dry hits from tanks with poor wicking. Then squonking to make it that much easier.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm just wary of aiming for imaginary goalposts, they seem even easier to move.

Wary is Good. But I'll ask you the Same Question.

How do we Counter the Non-Stop Parade of Studies like the Direct Dripping one you posted?

Seems like the Funding for such Studies is Vast to say the Least. And there is Always a CNN or Huffington Post who is willing to take these Studies and Blow them Up and make them even Worse that they are. Which Isn't good. LOL

 

[Lessifer]

Wary is Good. But I'll ask you the Same Question.

How do we Counter the Non-Stop Parade of Studies like the Direct Dripping one you posted?

Seems like the Funding for such Studies is Vast to say the Least. And there is Always a CNN or Huffington Post who is willing to take these Studies and Blow them Up and make them even Worse that they are. Which Isn't good. LOL

I don't have an answer. I just don't believe in mandating solutions to problems, when there is little to no evidence the problem exists.

 

[1/2 fast]

Wonder what they would think of squonking?

No doubt "scientific studies" support the theory that squonking impedes normal thumb development in younger vapers as well as causing the dreaded and sometimes terminal condition commonly known as Squonkers Thumb. Oh the horror

 

[zoiDman]

I don't have an answer. I just don't believe in mandating solutions to problems, when there is little to no evidence the problem exists.

Sometimes that's the Difference between the Real World and the Political World of Policy Making.

But, Unfortunately, the Political World of Policy Making is what shapes the Real World in which we live in.

So it's Kinda a Double Edged Sword.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

This is an excerpt from FEMA

Electronic Cigarette Fires and Explosions Key Points • More than 2.5 million Americans are using electronic cigarettes(e-cigs or e-cigarettes), and this number is growing rapidly. • Fires or explosions caused by e-cigarettes are rare. • Twenty-five separate incidents of explosion and fire involving an e-cigarette were reported in the United States media between 2009 and August 2014. • Nine injuries and no deaths were associated with these 25 incidents.Two of the injuries were serious burns. • Most of the incidents occurred while the battery was charging. • The shape and construction of e-cigarettes can make them more likely than other products with lithium-ion batteries to behave like “flaming rockets” when a battery fails. • Lithium-ion batteries must be charged in accordance with the manufacturer’sinstructions. • Using powersources not approved by the manufacturer to recharge a lithium-ion battery can result in an explosion and fire.

Does anyone has any new info on the dates after Aug 2014?

I know by the news there are a few but really not that many. At least that have been made public.

So for under a 100 incidents (guestimating) They make this big bunch of you know what?

smh

 

[Lessifer]

Sometimes that's the Difference between the Real World and the Political World of Policy Making.

But, Unfortunately, the Political World of Policy Making is what shapes the Real World in which we live in.

So it's Kinda a Double Edged Sword.

Isn't at least part of the country tired of unnecessary regulations that don't make things better/safer, just more complicated?

 

[Mooch]

Been talking to a bunch of folks behind the scenes regarding what my level of participation in the FDA's Battery Safety Workshop could be. There are strong arguments for not even participating, which I won't discuss.

We do have a month to comment after the workshop finishes though.

 

[NU_FTW]

Isn't at least part of the country tired of unnecessary regulations that don't make things better/safer, just more complicated?

306 Electoral votes would suggest the answer to your question is a resounding YES!!

Sick of big government, Sick of over reaching regulations, sick of regulations that only benefit the Biggest kids on the block (Big Pharma, Big Tobacco)

 

[zoiDman]

Isn't at least part of the country tired of unnecessary regulations that don't make things better/safer, just more complicated?

Sure.

Just like there are part who Don't really know what is going on. And believe what they are Told by CNN.

 

[VHRB2014]

Wonder what they would think of squonking?

They would think it immoral and deplorable, except in Frisco where it would take on new meaning. :?(

 

[johnny hotsauce]

So..... The FDA is going to have a workshop on how to blow clouds of hearts, dragons and volcano's? Sign me up for that!

But seriously, that article almost read at first like a PSA to parents on a new drug out there called dripping and all the teens and tweens are doing it! Parents, watch out, your kids are vaping embalming fluid!

...really? This garbage is getting out of hand.

 

[SinQuaNon]

I think its a symptom of the universe.... bad, shocking, negativity , click bait it all sells...... do a google search of news and type in ecigs, it is 99% negative, this is why, the media loves bad news, good news is boring!