Another dump on our parade via the media.

Status
Not open for further replies.

AgentAnia

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2013
3,739
9,455
Orbiting Sirius B
With a headline like that, you don't have to read the article to know it's pure BullCrap.jpg

That it appears on the print edition's Page 1 as a news article (when it's clearly op/ed): I think we assume that Nanny Bloomberg has NOT left the building.
 

Anjaffm

Dragon Lady
ECF Veteran
Sep 12, 2013
2,468
8,639
Germany
Well, at least SOME people have some sense!

The problems with adults, like those with children, owe to carelessness and lack of understanding of the risks. In the cases of exposure in children, “a lot of parents didn’t realize it was toxic until the kid started vomiting,” said ... director of the Kentucky Regional Poison Control Center at Kosair Children’s Hospital.

What is e-cig liquid doing in the hands of small children, please? Or bleach? Or that nice-smelling dishwashing liquid "with real lemon juice"?
"Carelessness and lack of understanding" puts it quite well, doesn't it?

And this is just hilarious:

one woman was admitted to the hospital with cardiac problems after her e-cigarette broke in her bed, spilling the e-liquid, which was then absorbed through her skin.

Uhm... how many quarts of e-liquid did her atomizer hold, please?

Cardiac problems from getting hysterical due to believing a bunch of scaremongering, eh?
Don't worry, lady, Big P will have just the pills for you to calm you down ;)
 

coalyard

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 20, 2014
923
879
Rome, NY, USA
Wow, that was just...really a terrible article, and another example of how far the Gray Lady has fallen.

"Enticing children" my white fanny. They're designed that way to entice adults. :) And the article intentionally tried to blur the distinction between e-liquid that's used and DIY bases, which are not used and where the bottles contain some extremely hefty warnings on them.

Leaving out a bottle of concentrate is asking for trouble. We know that.

Not to mention whipping up the big Chinese demon because lord knows those Chinese don't care what they export, they're just trying to poison our pure bodily fluids or something. Get real. Monitoring may be lax, comparatively, which is why I don't buy Chinese liquids. Besides, I DIY so I do know what's in there.

Grey Lady?!? How far they have fallen?!? More like the grey wh**e; A.K.A. Pravda on the Hudson. Where was Duranty and the NYT when Stalin was starving 11 million Ukrainians to death? Yeah. The NYT is useless, even as a birdcage liner. That would be considered cruelty to animals.

Edit: typo
 
Last edited:

Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
I'd like to know where reporters are getting the 2013 report. The latest report available to the general public is from 2012.

https://aapcc.s3.amazonaws.com/pdfs/annual_reports/2012_NPDS_Annual_Report.pdf

Hmm...if kids are being poisoned by the liquid because it smells good, can anyone explain why in 2012 there were 5,313 reports of children under the age of 6 eating tobacco cigarettes? They don't smell yummy. The truth is that very young kids who refuse to eat veggies that are good for them will pick up and eat some of the nastiest things you can imagine.

Let's put all this in perspective:

In 2012 there were 8,366 reports of "single exposures" to tobacco products, of which 7,308 (86%) involved children under age 6. Of all exposures, 1,514 (18%) were treated in a Health Care Facility, 5 were considered major, 1,691 (20%) were considered minor, and there was 1 death (an 86 year old male.)

There were 1,272 reports of "single exposures" to pharmaceutical nicotine products, of which 672 (52%) involved children under age 6. Of all exposures, 273 (21%) were treated in a Health Care Facility, 2 were considered major, 232 (18%) were considered minor, and there were 0 deaths.

There were 438 reports of "single exposures" to electronic cigarettes / liquid, of which 172 (39%) involved children under age 6. Of all exposures, 112 (26%) were treated in a Health Care Facility, 1 was considered major, 105 (24%) were considered minor, and there was 1 death (suicide of a 29-year old male).

Presumably, the deaths in the tobacco and the e-cigarette product groups were also included in the "major" category for those products.

Judging from the statistics, it doesn't look as if electronic cigarette liquid presents any higher danger of death or even a "major" incident to children than tobacco products or pharmaceutical nicotine.

The story reads

Nationwide, the number of cases linked to e-liquids jumped to 1,351 in 2013, a 300 percent increase from 2012, and the number is on pace to double this year, according to information from the National Poison Data System. Of the cases in 2013, 365 were referred to hospitals, triple the previous year’s number.

For the benefit of those who don't know, when a number triples, it has gone up by 300%. Thus the proportion of cases treated in a health care facility in 2013 ((365/1351)*100 = 27%) is quite similar to the proportion in 2012.

And by the way, the Poison Control Center does not break out the by age the cases that were "Treated in a Health Care Facility." The designations major, minor, and death also are the totals across all age groups. There is no mention of "referred to hospitals" in the Poison Control Centers annual reports. Someone might have gone to their doctor's office or to a Walk-In Clinic--not necessarily have been admitted to a hospital. Just another example of something that reads more like a press release than a news report.
 
Last edited:

coalyard

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 20, 2014
923
879
Rome, NY, USA
Even worse TSC sells poison by the gallon. Literally.

I'm not sure if WalMart bleach is particularly healthy either.

Or, *shocked face* how about not letting your kids drink your e-liquid! I don't know how I made it past childhood without guzzling a quart of that yummy sweet smelling antifreeze in the garage...

Have I mentioned yet just how much I despise the New York Times?
 

KODIAK (TM)

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 31, 2014
1,898
4,983
Dead Moose, AK
I'd like to know where reporters are getting the 2013 report. The latest report available to the general public is from 2012.
Rhetorical question I'm sure. Because you know the judgements about e-cigs have already been made. For some time now it's just been about rationalizing that preconceived judgement with inaccurate embellishments and sharing those journalistic "facts" with the world. I've been around long enough to see this before. As of now, we are pretty much 3rd class citizens again. (albeit not as smelly and a little healthier than we used to be). We may still be at the tip of the iceberg with this but the change is a-coming. And it's happening ten times faster than tobacco "discrimination" ever did. In 5 years the culture will be so brainwashed we'll all be vaping behind trash dumpsters again as people walk by hacking up lungs and holding their noses in disgust.

Before the inevitable hammer falls... I need to decide if I can do without vaping or stock up on supplies so I can cower in my home and blow clouds at 3AM when the neighbors aren't watching. Of course by then we'll probably be required to have Vape alarms mounted next to the CO2, radon and smoke detectors...

Of course Russia's not too far away from me either. :)
 

AgentAnia

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2013
3,739
9,455
Orbiting Sirius B
....And this is just hilarious:

one woman was admitted to the hospital with cardiac problems after her e-cigarette broke in her bed, spilling the e-liquid, which was then absorbed through her skin.

Uhm... how many quarts of e-liquid did her atomizer hold, please? ....

My follow-up question #1 (since I try to think logically): How many of those quarts of e-liquid were absorbed by the mattress and not her skin?

Question #2: Did woman have prior cardiac condition? "Cardiac problems" should be defined/clarified.

Filing this under "Fearmongering So Blatant It's Laughable."
 

coalyard

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 20, 2014
923
879
Rome, NY, USA
Ahem, via Wiki:

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[5][64] However the widely used human LD50 estimate of 0.5–1.0 mg/kg was questioned in a 2013 review, in light of several documented cases of humans surviving much higher doses; the 2013 review suggests that the lower limit causing fatal outcomes is 500–1000 mg of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral LD50 of 6.5–13 mg/kg

That's a lot of juice.
 

AgentAnia

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2013
3,739
9,455
Orbiting Sirius B
They are gonna call for restrictions on water next because if you drink too much water it can kill you as well.
come one people get a freaking brain.

ANTZ reply to your statement: "Water? That's not the issue." Because the blinkers worn by ANTZ and zealot legislators prevent them from seeing the issue in a real-world context.
 

sherwood865

Full Member
Feb 14, 2014
49
130
Knoxville, TN
A response to this article has been published: Response to Selling Poison by the Barrel: Liquid Nicotine for E-Cigarettes

And a news story is currently being put together that will help us vapers fight back against this type of irresponsible reporting. I think we all need to stand together and make sure that the news story that is created is spread further and wider than this hack job by the New York Times. Let them know we have a voice as well and we are going to use it every chance we get!
 

Anjaffm

Dragon Lady
ECF Veteran
Sep 12, 2013
2,468
8,639
Germany
@coalyard:

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[5][64] However the widely used human LD50 estimate of 0.5–1.0 mg/kg was questioned in a 2013 review, in light of several documented cases of humans surviving much higher doses; the 2013 review suggests that the lower limit causing fatal outcomes is 500–1000 mg of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral LD50 of 6.5–13 mg/kg

That's a lot of juice.

It sure is. And I am glad that Professor Mayer from Graz (Austria) University has done this study to debunk that old LD50 = 60 mg nic assumption that arose from some dubious experiment in the 1850s (!). And has been cited, cited, re-cited ad nauseam since then. Citing againg and again that the earth is flat does not make it so. :p And yes, science has made some progress since the 1850s.

And good one, sherwood865! :)
 

swampergene

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 9, 2014
161
394
Slatington, PA, USA
I responded last night to a bunch of tweets linking this article. Sensationalism at it's best, and terrible reporting.


First, there's a claim that even one teaspoon of "diluted" fluid will kill a child. Then, a couple paragraphs later it goes on to say a child drank a whole bottle and got SICK and had to go to the ER. So, apparently a whole bottle wouldn't kill a child, but hey, lets just say that even a teaspoon will. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread