anyone else have shortness of breath?

[aron291980]

I'm not saying tht I'm dying or tht anyone else will develop sob ...just stating tht I have never smoked cigs I was a dipper vaped for 2 months and sob I'm not a Dr but it kind of makes sence tht the vapor had something to do with it

 

[aron291980]

Whts the saying zurd if (the safe Cig) is to good to be true well then it prob is and if anyone. Out there thinks these e cig companies are there In the best interest of our health.....I'm sorry

 

[SimpleSins]

Stopped smoking and started vaping 6.4 months ago, no problems, I feel fine. Not doing much exercise but I have no trouble walking long distance or doing a few minutes of bike. This is an hypochondriac's dream thread, we need more people to chime in and say they feel fine.

Do you suppose the first few people that developed problems with cigarettes were called hypochondriacs? How about the ones that had trouble with asbestos? Maybe that first person that comes down with E. coli from a bag of spinach was derided for it being in his head.

Frankly, this person should serve as a reminder that these things while likely safer than cigarettes are not necessarily safe. If a smoker complains of shortness of breath after starting to vape, whether they had it before or not, they are going to be patted on the head and mocked because, heck, they were a smoker, of course they had shortness of breath. Now we've got a person with pristine lungs, a nonsmoker, who has shortness of breath after starting to vape. No blaming it on past cigarette use, no blaming it on environmental allergies that cigarette smoking had masked.

There would appear in this case to be a causal relationship between vaping and respiratory symptoms, and because it can't be explained away with the usual finger-pointing at a smoking history, he obviously must be a hypochondriac. Vaping has not been around long enough and the use of the flavoring agents as used in vaping has not been studied at all (except for a few that are known to be toxic as an inhaled vaper but what the heck let's use them anyway), so it lends the industry no credibility to denigrate anyone who dare present with a symptom.

 

[BassAddict]

Do you suppose the first few people that developed problems with cigarettes were called hypochondriacs? How about the ones that had trouble with asbestos? Maybe that first person that comes down with E. coli from a bag of spinach was derided for it being in his head.

Frankly, this person should serve as a reminder that these things while likely safer than cigarettes are not necessarily safe. If a smoker complains of shortness of breath after starting to vape, whether they had it before or not, they are going to be patted on the head and mocked because, heck, they were a smoker, of course they had shortness of breath. Now we've got a person with pristine lungs, a nonsmoker, who has shortness of breath after starting to vape. No blaming it on past cigarette use, no blaming it on environmental allergies that cigarette smoking had masked.

There would appear in this case to be a causal relationship between vaping and respiratory symptoms, and because it can't be explained away with the usual finger-pointing at a smoking history, he obviously must be a hypochondriac. Vaping has not been around long enough and the use of the flavoring agents as used in vaping has not been studied at all (except for a few that are known to be toxic as an inhaled vaper but what the heck let's use them anyway), so it lends the industry no credibility to denigrate anyone who dare present with a symptom.

I love every single one of your post's that I have read.. This one is spot on, and this community should be glad to have someone like you!

 

[Zurd]

Do you suppose the first few people that developed problems with cigarettes were called hypochondriacs?

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to be an ..., I might have used the wrong wording. I'm a little bit hypochondriac myself, I had trouble vaping and reading this thread. What I wanted to say is that mostly everyone who post in this thread are people having SOB. So can we say that 99% of people vaping are having SOB? Doesn't sound really right, eh? So I was just trying to get more people to post that they feel fine, that will just help to show that maybe long-term vaping is safe. I ain't saying it is safe, I said maybe, because nobody knows if it's safe or not yet.

 

[Fernand]

It was after buying some thick flavored liquids that I suddenly noticed, and of course "notice" could be the key word, that I was significantly short of breath. I had noticed getting constipated very soon after starting vaping, but that's not as serious. Oh, and dry eyes and a stuffy nose. So i use nasal spray and eyedrops. But its the coated pipes that feel scary. When people talk about 20% or more flavoring, it strikes me as completely nuts, like filling balloons with air freshener and inhaling them.

I feel a little better so far after a few days mostly using a DIY clear 60% pg 40% vg with under 1% FA Desert Ship, under 1% FA Cuban Supreme, 1% diluted menthol solution and a trace of PA "tobacco absolute". It tastes nice, surprisingly quite flavorful, not mentholly. My DIY nicotine level is preferentially over 40mg/ml. We'll see how it goes. Since VG itself feels mellow, and I love the vapor, I have never even tried all-PG, maybe it's something to try? Now I try to puff, nose-blow, not inhale so much. I felt the worst after chain-vaping and deeply inhaling some luscious commercial liquids. I have some carts with some of the luscious flavored liquids, and i can't resist at least puffing on them now and then. Maybe I can use them on pancakes.

I dunno, my quitting smoking trick, that used to work quite well until I'd "have just one" and start over, was pinhead-sized nubs of DaysO'work chewing tobacco that dissolve in the mouth, and provide taste and nicotine. Hate to go back to that. We'll see, but I worry something isn't right with vape, and I'm hoping it's something we can solve by adjusting the liquid composition, as i really enjoy it, more than smoking.

 

[kpax]

Simple Sins, excellent post. I was getting irritated with Zurd's statement as I felt it reeked of censorship and maybe fear (?) Zurd basically said "Ignore the hypochondriacs and hey, we need more people over here saying everybody's FINE"

Thanks for clarifying Zurd, but the people on this thread aren't bothering anyone and is IS in the health section. I took it as bullying - like you wanted to round up a bunch of people to discredit us. I feel bad enough (try having trouble breathing at the same time you are using a knowingly untested for long term use product in your lungs - I wouldn't wish that on anyone)

I posted before too with chest tightness and would like to add that I have never had it in my life like I am experiencing and had a chest Xray done as recently as Jan 2010. No major issues and no cancer. That's one of the reason's I switched to ecigs
9/10- I wanted to quit while I am ahead.

It's very concerning and I WISH it wasn't happening. I have actually had this mildly since I started vaping (felt almost like indigestion/mild hunger pangs, something? Zantac didn't help) to where it progressed to this where you have pressure alternating with a tightening feeling in your chest. It got bad enough that just lifting my arms in shower to wash my hair was uncomfortable. I am not imaging that. I am a healthy person BTW.

I am feeling dramatically better today and the only thing I have done differently in the past 24+ hours is NOT INHALE on my PV. I am just puffing a little and blowing the air out. (not as great as inhaling of course but I get taste, smoke in mouth and that has at least kept me from lighting an analog) I am trying to let as little vapor as possible into my lungs. The pressure in my chest has relieved greatly. What should I think based on this?

 

[kpax]

We'll see, but I feel something isn't right with vape, and I'm hoping it's something we can solve by adjusting the liquid composition, as i really enjoy it, more than smoking.

Fernand, the only thing I can come up with based on what I have read and comparing it to how I feel is this;

The drying effect of either PG or VG (people are saying they are both humectants that draw moisture from what is around them which causes the dry mouth), if inhaled into lungs it would stand to reason it would dry that area too (why wouldn't it dry lungs, someone please explain if they know) and that can't be good. For some more than others. Particularly concerning also with winter coming. It's hard to breathe period in dry winter air.

So....Take repeated drying out of lung tissue from known humectants and add a bunch of flavorings that no one knows effects from inhaling repeatedly and it could be a real crapshoot. I don't know, but this could be some of what is causing these flavorings to seem harsh and cause reactions for some.

I can't see my lungs but nasal passages are right on my face and are sore too. It would stand to reason that so are my lungs.

I wish they would come up with something that doesn't draw moisture from our bodies in order get it to work. I thought PG/VG was safe when I started but I didn't know about it's properties. It still may be "safe" but very taxing to our bodies long term because of the drying properties.

 

[Fernand]

A physical phenomenon like drying is not as scary, but if moisture is drawn, where does it go? Are strongly dehydrated tissues viable? Is it really as benign as "dry mouth"? And then we have irritants that cause reddening, inflammation, and ultimately serious damage like scarring. Many flavoring agents are irritating to mucosa when applied at higher concentrations. Two buttery-tasting diketones have been shown to do that, specifically diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. I may be mistaken, but it doesn't seem as roundabout or complicated as carcinogens, it's sort of common sense, like if you put orange peel extract down your nose with a dropper, good luck. On a recent diacetyl thread I tried to calculate what a heavy vaper who uses strongly flavored liquids with buttery flavoring is exposed to, and got as high as 4.3 ppm, whereas Hubbs showed that rats breathing either diacetyl or acetyl propionyl at 100-350 ppm for 6 hours suffered catastrophic damage to the respiratory tract. There's a big study of workers in popcorn plants that strongly suggests that the diacetyl in flavoring is causing impaired breathing ranging from shortness of breath to needing a lung transplant, and a few deaths, even though the average concentration of diacetyl was way below 1 ppm, and peak levels maybe 100, maybe more. At least one consumer who would microwave pop several bags a day also developed "bronchiolitis obliterans", where the bronchioles are "obliterated" (for good). That's all a bit too close for comfort. I'm not into accusing flavor or juice makers of anything, or dividing them into back and white hats, but I'm a bit worried, especially about flavorings. So my reaction is first to reduce all flavoring dramatically, and see how I feel. Buttery flavors are off my shopping cart entirely. Maybe next is give myself a single eGo battery charge a day - ouch ;-) ok, maybe two and don't inhale at all ...

 

[Fernand]

A word of caution on nasal spray, BTW. The decongestant ones that work so well do cause a rebound, so you end up needing them. They work by making the blood vessels in the nose tighten up, so the swelling goes down. When the decongestant drugs wear off, the swelling goes back up, and more, so you have to spray a bit more. Why is the world so difficult? You can get plain saline that doesn't do that, but isn't as miraculous initially ;-)

 

[warbdan]

I have posted this before, but I had been having trouble with losing my breath when falling asleep. I passed it off as apnea, but I also reduced my flavorings from 20% to 10% in my Diy liquids and haven't had any more trouble. My flavor concentrates were Dekang and as far as I know, they don't contain diacetyl. It stands to reason that diacetyl isn't the ONLY concern. I just don't think flavoring agents are meant to be inhaled at all. I'm going to try even less flavors in the next batch. 10% may sound like a lot, but the Dekang flavors are pretty light flavorwise.

 

[aron291980]

I have posted this before, but I had been having trouble with losing my breath when falling asleep. I passed it off as apnea, but I also reduced my flavorings from 20% to 10% in my Diy liquids and haven't had any more trouble. My flavor concentrates were Dekang and as far as I know, they don't contain diacetyl. It stands to reason that diacetyl isn't the ONLY concern. I just don't think flavoring agents are meant to be inhaled at all. I'm going to try even less flavors in the next batch. 10% may sound like a lot, but the Dekang flavors are pretty light flavorwise.

what do u think about menthol................been in cigs forever..............i was fine when vaping that but who knows

 

[SuziesMom]

Has anyone experiencing these symptoms checked their blood pressure???
A lot of the symptoms that people are experiencing sound like high blood pressure:
Malignant hypertension: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

 

[aron291980]

Has anyone experiencing these symptoms checked their blood pressure???
A lot of the symptoms that people are experiencing sound like high blood pressure:
Malignant hypertension: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

just had a physical 29 and healthy, besides if I chain vape then I notice SOB

 

[Fernand]

Of course the two "buttery" diketones are not the only irritants around, and probably not the only ones we might be exposed to. If a lot of people get short of breath when vaping, the immediate question is whether it's caused by the "base" of VG/PG, or by the flavors. Or both. I DO feel better vaping barely flavored liquid, and I'll know more in time. Who will test if the chest thickness feeling goes away completely at zero flavoring, even with deep inhaling? My guess would be "almost".

Menthol maybe has a better chance of being better tolerated than most, given how much it's been inhaled to treat colds.

 

[Fernand]

In reviewing studies of PG and VG mists, it's pretty clear that a strong drying effect is to be expected:

"both glycols and glycerols have a throat-drying effect. The Cohen Group report to ESTA notes that “the chemical nature of glycols is such that prolonged or repeated contact with a glycol mist is likely to dry out moist tissues (i.e., the mucous membranes of the upper respiratory track and, possibly, the eye)” [4].

There was also thickening of mucus secretions reported when PG vapor is inhaled. It's almost inevitable that in the nasal passages such a mist can produce a "stuffy nose" and in the lungs it could even lead to decreased efficiency of oxygen exchange, maybe "shortness of breath". If this is a quickly reversible "physical" effect, it's not as alarming to me as the thought of "chemical" tissue irritation. Still, it would be nice to hear what physical exams show.

As I cut way down on inhaling, and chain-vape a 40 mg/ml Nicotine 60PG/40VG e-liquid with under 2% total flavoring, what's left is a dry and stuffy nose; my lungs feel way better after a few days. When I tried deep inhaling for a day, I didn't have the full "drowning lungs" sensation I had with the richly flavored commercial e-liquids, just a slight "fullness". Maybe it's just the shorter exposure, and maybe all psychological: a much more subtle flavoring seems more appropriate than inhaling Tropical Fruit Monsoon or Essence o' Packed Twinkie.

I'm trying a 50/50 PG/VG mix with a drop of water/ml. Feels more drying, and the flavor seems washed out in the huge billows of vapor!

 

[W Axl Rose]

High blood pressure was not the problem with me. Mine is always low.

 

[Crystallas]

Certain flavoring and inhaling burned wick will prompt me for a short recovery time. As far as vaping over analogs... no new problems, heck, no problems, as I'm pretty sure I have recovered from all noticeable side effects.

 

[BassAddict]

Ok, so there is a diacetyl thread on this forum that is starting to get somewhere with the inhaling of food flavoring. Instead of mixing the flavoring with the juice, just use unflavored nicotine inside the Cartridge/Cartomizer, and dip the mouth end of the cartridge/cartomizer in the food flavoring (Capella, FlavourART, AP)! Then all you will do with the flavoring agent is ingest it, instead of, inhaling it.

Now, if there could be a better way to implement that solution..

 

[warbdan]

I'm vaping liquid with only 5% flavoring right now and feeling great. I think 10% flavoring or more is just way too much to be inhaling. The flavor doesn't assault the senses at 5% but at least I can still taste it and breathe much better.