anyone else have shortness of breath?

[Fernand]

I'd say under 5% feels best for me. One drip bottle drop in 5 ml is less than 1%, 0.8%, and using say 3 flavors that way we're under 2.5% total. But 0.8% of a 4% vanillin solution is not the same as 0.8% of a 40% vanillin, and you could use 25% of some of the very dilute ones without hardly getting any active essences, so until we have a better grasp of what's what, I'm not sure how to compare. My rule is "if it's more than subtle, it's too much". Strong flavors nicely mask the taste of burning plastic, so subtle flavors have made me terribly sensitive to the quality of the atomizer, cartomizer, etc; some sure taste awful, unusable, that's too bad, but then again, it can't be healthy. I love coconut, but as I recall that tends to be high in diketones. Feeling a bit hemmed in.

Because we adapt, and it's fortunate we do, I don't think we are losing much dropping from 20 to 10%, but below 5%, we need flavors that "speak out" in truly trace amounts. tobacco Absolute is one, and menthol is another. Any others?

The idea of flavoring a cartridge insert has been proposed, but unless it's the heating of flavorings that does harm, it could be that loading a vapor either way does the same thing. As to literally tasting, that sounds soggy ;-)

 

[Afterburner]

Do you suppose the first few people that developed problems with cigarettes were called hypochondriacs? How about the ones that had trouble with asbestos? Maybe that first person that comes down with E. coli from a bag of spinach was derided for it being in his head.

Frankly, this person should serve as a reminder that these things while likely safer than cigarettes are not necessarily safe. If a smoker complains of shortness of breath after starting to vape, whether they had it before or not, they are going to be patted on the head and mocked because, heck, they were a smoker, of course they had shortness of breath. Now we've got a person with pristine lungs, a nonsmoker, who has shortness of breath after starting to vape. No blaming it on past cigarette use, no blaming it on environmental allergies that cigarette smoking had masked.

There would appear in this case to be a causal relationship between vaping and respiratory symptoms, and because it can't be explained away with the usual finger-pointing at a smoking history, he obviously must be a hypochondriac. vaping has not been around long enough and the use of the flavoring agents as used in vaping has not been studied at all (except for a few that are known to be toxic as an inhaled vaper but what the heck let's use them anyway), so it lends the industry no credibility to denigrate anyone who dare present with a symptom.

I've also had the same symptoms and am equivalent to a non-smoker in that I smoked for seven years but had given up for 12 years. Tried vaping out of curiosity and because it seemed fairly safe. Vaped for about five or six months. Wrote quite a detailed reply here but unfortunately lost it as was automatically logged out. (In other forums your post is still saved after you login again).

 

[Jorge22]

Well, I haven't had an analog for over 3 months but I can relate to the shortness of breath symptoms and I find it amazing that so many people speak of them and yet no one studies the issue throughly (not to forbid PVs, just to make them much safer; isn't that what we all want?). I don't know if it's VG or PG or flavours or whatever and it could also be anxiety or is the anxiety caused by the shortness of breath? The thing is we all go into PVs with high hopes for improved breathing and all and eventually we start complaining about shortness of breath! Does anyone find that normal? I don't. Sorry if I sound apocalyptic but I'm feeling the shortness of breath (usually accompanied by not being able to breathe through the nose as well) right now.

 

[flbutterfly1]

I just recently have been having breathing problems also. About 2 weeks ago I was vaping my usual flavor and all of the sudden it started and now it is all day and the hard to breathe feeling won't go away. I will have been cigarette free for 1 year June 18 2011. So just shy of my 1 yr I started having this problem. I cut down vaping to the way I used to smoke not all day just when I need to. Now I cannot vape at all so I have been puffing with no inhale and I still cannot breathe. So now I am having nic withdrawals and am totally .....y my family hates me and I need a cigarette. But all that will hopefully pass. I am having anxiety from the no nic then can't breathe then more anxiety cause I can't breathe then I need a cigarette even more it is a viscious cycle.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Well, I felt I had to reply after reading the last couple of posts. I am having the same issues with the shortness of breath, and it's getting worse. I started vaping in March of 2010. Used flavored cartomizers, mostly menthols, and felt great for a couple months. THen noticed some slight SOB, but nothing to worry about. And attributed some of it to clearing out the lungs after 35 years of cigarettes.

Then they stopped selling my favorite flavor of cartomizer, a menthol, and I began the search for another all-day vaping flavor. I went through many, many flavors, as most of us do. Tried making my own a little bit, but nothing great came of that. I finally found a great flavor I love, and it became my all-day flavor, Candy Cane, sweet and lots of lung hit, as I call it. And the SOB got worse. It's been bad ever since. Almost unbearable. And when I had a lung infection, bronchitis, and such in early March of this year, the SOB was so bad I ended up at the hospital twice with panic attacks from not being able to breath. I took anti-anxiety meds for it, it was so scary.

Now, I'm over the lung infection, but the SOB is worse still. I got some new juice two days ago, a menthol, and it has a small amount of VG in it, as I always felt I needed the vapor to be fully satisfied. I'm using primarily that flavor to see if it helps any for the next couple weeks or so. If I feel any better at all, I will stick with it and give up the candy flavored juice. I tried the candy cane in combinations of PG, VG, and both. It didn't help to change it, and I can't stand this feeling anymore. It literally is so bad it scares me, and I have to stop walking sometimes to catch my breath, and then continue on. It's embarassing, and I don't see any other explanation than it has to have something to do with vaping.

I even smoked a few cigarettes for about a month when I had a death in the family, along with the vaping, at the end of March 2011, but stopped that altogether a week or so ago. It didn't change anything with the breathing. I only smoked one a day most days, never more than three a day, and most days none at all. I never finished a cigarette, threw away more than I used. I just felt bad after my brother died, and it was a good excuse to say F---it, I'm going to smoke if I want to. It also didn't taste all that great anyway. It hurt my lungs, and I could never get a deep inhale going to enjoy. And boy, does it stink.....!!!!

If this flavoring change helps, then that would be great. But if it doesn't, I don't see any other way around this, except for using inhalers, and those that are over the counter are not good for you. Getting a doc to give you an inhaler isn't that easy unless you are ill, or have asthma. I am going to do a search about the dangers of some flavorings, and see if I can learn anything.

Has anyone around here noticed that their SOB improved when they used a particular flavor or mixture of their juices? I would love to know if it has occured. I too will post back if the switch helps my breathing issue at all. I have also found that most doctors don't know anything at all about the e-cigarettes. Few have even heard of it, and haven't read anything about it to help you.

Rags

 

[flbutterfly1]

I was also using a minty flavor when all this started. It was called creamy mint. I had been trying out minty menthol flavors when the SOB started. I keep trying to use a menthol flavor and have this problem. I usually vape blueberry from a certain vendor. I decided I was dying for a menthol which I have not smoked for 15 years and this is when all of this started. I am still craving menthol but really am wondering if it is the flavor and vg content that has caused this. I cannot vape at all now. I only used the mint when I was craving and the Bberry was not enough to keep me from wanting to smoke. I only use 6mg and 0mg so I don't think the nic is the problem I am really thinking this is the menthol or mint oil that is used in the flavoring that is causing this problem. Unfortunately I used this mint stuff on and off for maybe 2mos. I ordered other menthol and peppermint flavors from another vendor and had the same problem so I was thinking it was high vg content usually 30% vg is all I can do or I can't breathe and cough alot of yuck up. Now with reading this last post I am thinking my problem may be the mint oils. And adding the vg to problem only makes it worse if this clears up without me vaping for a few more days then I will try pg only and see if I can continue to vape or not.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Well, thank you for posting that info, butterfly. My favorite flavor of Candy Cane must certainly have peppermint in it, a minty flavor in itself. I've been using the menthol with a little VG in it since Saturday night, and actually feel a little tiny bit better but not enough to make any judgements about. As far as the VG or PG issue goes, I've never been able to tell a difference in those either. The SOB issue overshadowed any outcome I could have from changing to one or the other. I'd like to hear from some people who found that one or the other helped with their SOB problems. I have the supplies to make my own juices, such as the PG, VG, and both of them with Nicotine as well. Then I have a few flavorings and can always get some more. I just can't stand this not being able to get from my car to the bldg. at work without stopping. I have to carry a tool bag, and it is almost impossible. I'm used to having lots of energy and moving fast, and I've not been able to do that for a while. I miss the days when I first started vaping, and I felt better from not smoking cigarettes, and had not yet developed any side effects from vaping.


As a side note, I have been taking an antibiotic for skin acne that developed when I started vaping. I took it for about 5 months, and ran out for about 6 weeks, and the acne returned promptly. Trying to play catch up now, taking it again and skin is clearing up. That side effect I can live with. A small break in antibiotic use is probably not bad. THis one is designed just for the skin, is costly at $120.00 per month, but the maker has a coupon making it $25 a month. I'll gladly pay that for being able to vape and not break out, but the SOB issue is probably going to be a deal-breaker if it doesn't improve. Sounds like you are having the same feelings, no?

 

[Jorge22]

Wow, after reading these I'm even more certain that totally unbiased, deeply scientific tests have to be made regarding PVs and the flavourings. I know this won't earn me a lot of friends among the fans, where I include myself, but I feel it's absolutely urgent.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Wow, after reading these I'm even more certain that totally unbiased, deeply scientific tests have to be made regarding PVs and the flavourings. I know this won't earn me a lot of friends among the fans, where I include myself, but I feel it's absolutely urgent.

I agree with you 100%. I was so incredibly grateful I was able to start vaping when I did, as I've already tried everything else, including three tries with the Chantix, and it nearly killed me. And I expect some side effects, no doubt. I have no problem with most of them. But this not being able to breath, and move around is getting out of hand. It is really starting to depress me. I don't look forward to doing anything because I know I won't be able to do it anyway.

Yes we need more testing and more members to post about issues they had AND if they were able to remedy their problem at all. I for one would love to know. I'm tired of having to make myself yawn to get a full breath. I know, it sounds stupid but it's true.

 

[W Axl Rose]

Just curious, but have any of you seen a dr about this??

 

[phantom2x]

As everyone says, everything affects people differently. A lot of people in this thread mention never having had problems smoking. I personally did, after only 6 years and only on about 15 smokes a day. I was having constant brown throat phlegm I'd spit up, as well as black and grey streaked phlegm every morning, and shortness of breath, as well as sharp pains in my lungs after having a smoke. These symptoms have since subsided since vaping. I still get the throat phlegm, but it's a healthier white.

People concerned by this thread, I think should rightfully be, because it's naive to dismiss all this, but if you are familiar with statistics, this thread is of course biased towards problems caused by vaping, as others usually wouldn't feel the need to engage in a lengthy topic if it doesn't apply to them, and I think that many simply wouldn't check this section altogether - many people seem to be more than happy with their results from vaping. I felt problems I had must be caused by vaping, such as pain in my lungs on inhalation, but I realized this is only after vaping constantly, which I can tell you, I was never able to smoke as frequently as I can vape, but when I came anywhere close, it had more than it's bout of problems. I experience almost no pains in my lungs now compared to when I smoked, and any pains experienced I dismiss as overdoing it, because they will keep occuring after they start if I keep vaping, and won't occur at all the next day if I'm not abusing it. When vaping too much, I can definitely say I experience shortness of breath, but when vaping a regular amount, I can actually experience things like sighs of relief, or full yawns, or anything else I could before I ever started smoking.

I realize though, that I am inhaling a chemical, though low in toxicity, is still unnatural. I expect a bit of side-effects at this point. Do I think it will kill me? No, because I use only reputable Canadian or US suppliers, and tank or tea bag modded carts. I'm only inhaling PG and flavorings, of which both were in tobacco, and the PG isn't (AFAIK) degrading to acrolein in the vape, as it would in cigarettes. Yes, this has a lot more PG in it, but PG is a lot friendlier than formaldehyde, carbon monoxide, and all my other old buddies.

 

[jayvolt]

Axel,

That is a question that concerns me, and almost NONE of the people that post in these reply to that. If you are having issue breathing GO TO THE DOCTOR and if asked, let people know what the results were. I went to the doctor after experiencing SOB last week. I have been on a PV for 8 weeks ( I have GAD). As it turns out the SOB is normal when quitting. Itis also normal when reading these threads to panic because people say alot of things and criminalize e-cigs right off without see a physician to tell them what is going on.

I agree that we need testing of flavors and mixes to see their long term effects. But if you are all so alarmed you have the option of using "cleaner e juices made by reputable companies, that are made with organic materials, and VERY short ingredient lists. All of the people that have posted here, should have. But we need to remember that there are 1000 medical reasons for 1 symptom and NONE of us are doctors, NONE of us should be diagnosing. I am not a doctor and my limited medical training is not enough to make assumptions about my, or anyone elses health.

My doctor is aware of my PV, and has made the statement that it is most likely better than what you were putting into your lungs while smoking. That being said I have shown a marked improvement in lung function, and in BP. I feel ALOT better in general. My anxiety is far worse, to be expected since smoking helps with that. Does this mean PV's are 100% safe? NO, it just means that it is a degree SAFER. If you want 100% safe please live in a bubble. Since we have 100000 chemicals in the air right now, nuclear fallout and carcinogens EVERYWHERE, including in our friggin food, there is no 100% safe.

This is just my 2 cents, my opinions. I am saddened by all of the baseless conjecture that I have seen, and now that I have this rant out I think I will feel better. This thread and all of them like it need to exist for productive conversation. Those conversations need to start including medical test results and true statements from doctors that are informed, not the ones that dismiss what they don't understand. And IMHO if your doctor refuses to learn anything about a device you have chosen to use instead of ciggy's, you need a new doctor. The medical fields is a constant learning environment.

Thanks for reading

 

[Sandybeach40]

I chain vape all day and I have noticed that with certain liquids my lung function is worse. I find that heavy VG juices really take a toll on my ability to breath good. I do fine with 80 20 PG VG but anything higher seems to get me huffy. For this reason I find myself avoiding some of my favorite flavors out there.

 

[flbutterfly1]

Anything over 30% VG affects my breathing also makes me feel like I am congested in the chest and then I cough upn alot of VGyuck.

 

[W Axl Rose]

So, no, no one has seen a dr about this?

 

[Jorge22]

No, you don't just see a doctor who most probably knows nothing of vaping because you suspect something - which is not the case with everyone, some are really certain that something's terribly wrong.

 

[tresrottn]

It doesn't matter if the doctor knows anything about vaping. Giving them a list of the things you are inhaling and asking for a reference to a pulmonary doc is prolly in order of the nth degree! If you are having shortness of breath, go to the people who specialize in lung function. But get to a dang doctor! why wait? Smoking is proven to cause COPD. I watched my non-smoking for 20+ years mother die from it. Your lungs and heart are NEVER something to mess with. If you smoked, chances are, you will be diagnosed with COPD down the road.

BTW, for the record, pg is used in albuterol, the liquid in asthma inhalers. It's also used with the mixes for nebulizers. In fact, a nebulizer is a giant vape factory! It's the exact same principle. It's also used in fast acting heart medications, but the breathing in of pg has never been shown to cause an issue. VG, is a whole nother story cause there is no story yet.

Personally, I dropped by this side because I have been having a problem and needed to sort it out with some rational talk. I have been ciggie free since 17 july 2010, and vaping like a happy little camper since then. One month ago moved to a new, less polluted climate, I am now living with 6 new animals in my life, and my allergies have gone into overdrive. I am sneezing all the time, and causing my dormant asthma to wake up and be angry. Before, I had two methods of treatment. The first being a strong, large cup of coffee and about 4 ciggies smoked in rapid order. The second, if the first didn't work was using the inhaler. I rarely used the inhaler.

So now, when I'm going into attack, I whip out the coffee and the e-cig just isn't having the same effectiveness as the regular menthol ciggie. I am getting clogged up, wheezing, and just snot production from head to toe it feels like I am a bit of a purist, and mix my own juice. I use 100% VG, not store bought, but is kosher, USP, as well as European Union certified pure and safe. a dash of flavor, currently flavor arts white peach with a touch of menthol. My nic is FSUSA's nic which is the cleanest nic I could find on the market. My purist side has me using the CE2 cartomizer (no nasty burning polyfil, thanks)

I am just more annoyed than anything that my vape isn't doing a better job with the allergy induced asthma. The only thing I can think is the delivery of the nic is different, and may not be as effective as ciggies....I would rather die than go back to smoking ciggies. I am purely ...... that my allergies didn't go away!!! the hell!!!

I almost want to buy and mix some pure PG with a higher nice content than my usual as my "first defense" because I know PG is proven safe to be inhaled where as VG doesn't have that stamp of approval just yet.
But, thin runny PG seems to have a chemically taste to me. I hate wasting nic juice.
Or, I can just break down and use the inhaler first and be done with the whole dang issue.

Yes, I am just vocalizing at this point and would just like to hear some additional thoughts or opinions. I need some extra viewpoints in order to make sure I am on the right track, which is dealing with the new Cilia and their stupid need to be "sensitive" to stuff )

After reading, I do realize that the Cilia in my lungs have been reborn, and allergies that I thought were gone are actually just as active as they ever were. I can take allergy pills for that, and that would prolly end the issue all together. But my homegrown asthma remedy needs a revamp. I already take pills enough, I want to keep as med free as possible,.........ok, I admit, I despise that horrible, jittery, shaky feeling I get from using my inhaler. Drives me nuts.

No, you don't just see a doctor who most probably knows nothing of vaping because you suspect something - which is not the case with everyone, some are really certain that something's terribly wrong.

 

[SimpleSins]

BTW, for the record, pg is used in albuterol, the liquid in asthma inhalers. It's also used with the mixes for nebulizers. In fact, a nebulizer is a giant vape factory! It's the exact same principle. It's also used in fast acting heart medications, but the breathing in of pg has never been shown to cause an issue. VG, is a whole nother story cause there is no story yet.

Could you please provide confirmation on this? I have heard it stated repeatedly but I have been unable to find any of the respiratory inhalers or nebulizer solution that have PG in them. Some may have in the past, but there also used to be asbestos in all sorts of things until it was determined that it was not particularly healthy. Injectables and oral meds are a totally different thing as there is a big difference between inhaled and ingested and injected. So if you could please point me to one pharmaceutical that uses PG in its inhaled or nebulized form, I would be interested in reading that. Thanks in advance!

PS: And for the record, a nebulizer is a little bit different in that it "shatters" the liquid into a fine mist rather than heat it to steamishness.

 

[curiousJan]

It doesn't matter if the doctor knows anything about vaping. Giving them a list of the things you are inhaling and asking for a reference to a pulmonary doc is prolly in order of the nth degree! If you are having shortness of breath, go to the people who specialize in lung function. But get to a dang doctor! why wait? Smoking is proven to cause COPD. I watched my non-smoking for 20+ years mother die from it. Your lungs and heart are NEVER something to mess with. If you smoked, chances are, you will be diagnosed with COPD down the road.

BTW, for the record, pg is used in albuterol, the liquid in asthma inhalers. It's also used with the mixes for nebulizers. In fact, a nebulizer is a giant vape factory! It's the exact same principle. It's also used in fast acting heart medications, but the breathing in of pg has never been shown to cause an issue. VG, is a whole nother story cause there is no story yet.

Personally, I dropped by this side because I have been having a problem and needed to sort it out with some rational talk. I have been ciggie free since 17 july 2010, and vaping like a happy little camper since then. One month ago moved to a new, less polluted climate, I am now living with 6 new animals in my life, and my allergies have gone into overdrive. I am sneezing all the time, and causing my dormant asthma to wake up and be angry. Before, I had two methods of treatment. The first being a strong, large cup of coffee and about 4 ciggies smoked in rapid order. The second, if the first didn't work was using the inhaler. I rarely used the inhaler.

So now, when I'm going into attack, I whip out the coffee and the e-cig just isn't having the same effectiveness as the regular menthol ciggie. I am getting clogged up, wheezing, and just snot production from head to toe it feels like I am a bit of a purist, and mix my own juice. I use 100% VG, not store bought, but is kosher, USP, as well as European Union certified pure and safe. a dash of flavor, currently flavor arts white peach with a touch of menthol. My nic is FSUSA's nic which is the cleanest nic I could find on the market. My purist side has me using the CE2 cartomizer (no nasty burning polyfil, thanks)

I am just more annoyed than anything that my vape isn't doing a better job with the allergy induced asthma. The only thing I can think is the delivery of the nic is different, and may not be as effective as ciggies....I would rather die than go back to smoking ciggies. I am purely ...... that my allergies didn't go away!!! the hell!!!

I almost want to buy and mix some pure PG with a higher nice content than my usual as my "first defense" because I know PG is proven safe to be inhaled where as VG doesn't have that stamp of approval just yet.
But, thin runny PG seems to have a chemically taste to me. I hate wasting nic juice.
Or, I can just break down and use the inhaler first and be done with the whole dang issue.

Yes, I am just vocalizing at this point and would just like to hear some additional thoughts or opinions. I need some extra viewpoints in order to make sure I am on the right track, which is dealing with the new Cilia and their stupid need to be "sensitive" to stuff )

After reading, I do realize that the Cilia in my lungs have been reborn, and allergies that I thought were gone are actually just as active as they ever were. I can take allergy pills for that, and that would prolly end the issue all together. But my homegrown asthma remedy needs a revamp. I already take pills enough, I want to keep as med free as possible,.........ok, I admit, I despise that horrible, jittery, shaky feeling I get from using my inhaler. Drives me nuts.

Just a note ... you might want to try a higher ratio of PG. VG makes me phlegmy as all get out _and_ causes SOB for me. I happen to be one of the rarer ones who is sensitive to VG rather than PG.

Just a thought ...

Jan

Oh, and yes the nic in vaping is delivered at a slower rate than that of a cig. All those chemicals and CO2 make the head-rush and push the nic into the blood faster. You might try a higher nic, PG rather than VG blend to see if that helps with your attacks.

 

[flbutterfly1]

I haven't vaped for 2 days and SOB seems to almost be gone. I am pretty sure that my problem is not vaping in general but minty flavors. I am going to wait till tomorrow and try some plain pg no nic no flavor and see what happens. If all goes well I will try pg with vanilla flavoring, then with nic in it. and if all is still good add 20% vg and test that. I am also thinking that it may have taken a year to accumulate a good amount of vg in my lungs and bog me down. Adding the mint juice which I am thinking is oil based to the 30% vg that I have been vaping all day for a year has caused SOB and also factoring in seasonal asthma to the problem has just resulted in my problem being worse. I have been on many different inhalers albuterol, seravent, flovent, advair, benedryl pills, claritin and none helped. I have been told maybe it is anxiety but wrong again. I took a few anitanxiety pills in the past and they just made me feel funny as did all the inhalers kinda high and jittery like. So I will just wait it out and hope that my lungs keep working and in the mean time I will stay in the AC and hang out in the forum and waste time until it isn't 100 deg. out with 99% humidity and then I will be good. I do have to say that up until a few weeks ago I have been breathing better than I had when I was smoking. Last spring and summer was really easy for me. That is why all of the sudden SOB has me upset not just because I like air but also because I have had such a good year smoke free.