anyone else have shortness of breath?

[chad]

FWIW: After switching to a "limited flavoring" juice (ECOPure Regular - in this case), I have no problems with chest tightness or shortness of breath. Flavorings are the thing most suspect in juices. I personally consider them adulterants.

ECOPure is one of the "older" juices and Intellicig is positioning their products as approved cessation devices in the UK. I think it's the only juice I really trust these days.

I'm only 'N of 1' though so your mileage may vary.

Research | Intellicig USA

 

[thewomenfolk]

-----

chad, by 'limited flavoring' do you mean there's just less flavoring in the ejuice or that its a safer flavoring of some kind? I've been diluting my juices lately with mostly PG (and very little VG) and am surprised that it doesn't distort my favorite ejuice at all, which is nice.

 

[chad]

-----

chad, by 'limited flavoring' do you mean there's just less flavoring in the ejuice or that its a safer flavoring of some kind? I've been diluting my juices lately with mostly PG (and very little VG) and am surprised that it doesn't distort my favorite ejuice at all, which is nice.

I think there is both less flavoring and safer flavoring. I believe the only thing in ECOPure that adds any flavor is ethyl maltol. Besides that, the ECOPure juice is only nicotine, glycerol, and distilled water. Most other juices are so heavily flavored with natural and artificial flavorings, it's hard to know if they're ok for the lungs in the long run. Of course, I'm sure all the flavorings folks use are generally recognized as safe for digestion, but the stomach is not the same as the lungs. Less is better in my opinion, especially where flavoring is concerned.

Here's a PDF of analysis done in 2009 on ECOPure.

I've tried a boat load of juices over the years and while I've never really had shortness of breath, I have gotten a tight chest sometimes - usually from heavily flavored liquids (the dark, sugary tasting ones, the super citrusy ones, etc...). That's why after a few years I've come back to ECOPure and can appreciate the subtlety of its taste. I use the "Regular" rather than the "Full" flavor because I believe there is less ethyl maltol flavoring in it.

There is a sacrifice though. Many juice makers enhance throat hit with flavoring (cinnamon is common), and so ECOPure's TH is not nearly what you'd get in say Johnson's Creek's juices (the stuff in Blu cigs). I'm happy with the sacrifice though, since I enjoy partaking of nicotine and intend to do it for a while. I'm happy I can use vapor rather than smokeless tobacco like snus, or god forbid, an actual cigarette or pipe (like I used to for so many years).

 

[Fernand]

Personally, I've found that PG gives me trouble, that and strong flavoring, and I feel fine vaping 90% glycerin (the rest being water and 2-5% flavoring). PG specifically and repeatably caused the following problems in me and several friends: sleepiness/low energy, dry mouth, acid stomach, constipation, leg cramps. Many of PG's effects seem (logically) related to its drying effect on mucous membranes. Compensating by drinking large amounts of water helps. But PG is also a (mild) sedative, helpful while kicking smoking, but many people find it's a nuisance afterwards. PG also has an effect on cardiac conduction, but this is only seen from ingesting high doses.

Vaping large amounts of glycerin will logically cause some sensation in the lungs as glycerin deposits on the bronchioles, just as it does e.g. on the windows in my office. It remains to be seen if this causes any long term problems.

As to the palm vs corn vs soy issues, once oils are reacted to make pure glycerin, it's impossible to determine what plant the oils came from; VG is VG.

Ecopure sounds like a resonable formulation, but they are over the top in their marketing BS, all that white coat image and talk of scientific techniques, lab quality, etc, when in fact it's just a VG + nicotine + water + flavoring mix like many others, and Ethyl Maltol hasn't been extensively studied by inhalation either. There was one study as I recall, it was submitted by a tobacco company to FDA at one point to justify their using ethyl maltol in cigarettes.

A peculiar note is that the animal testing that would be required to see which flavorings are hazardous to inhale, and which are safer than others, is very difficult to do in Europe at this time, because of increasing rules against mistreating animals. It's OK to poison people, but not mice.

Nothing against Ecopure, it's clearly a safer choice than many others. Hopefully the trend will be away from the kitchen brew heavily flavored liquids that so many vaper like. But in all fairness, I've repeatedly tried this sort of mix, i.e. just VG, nicotine, water and ethyl maltol, and if I used enough ethyl maltol to get a noticeable flavor, it felt more irritating than some other flavorings I've tried. I feel best using small percentages (2-5%) of light synthetic flavoring mixes that include ethyl maltol, but only in very small amounts.

 

[Fabio Chaves]

I have been vaping for 2 weeks, completely stopped the analogs, and I am getting a heavy shortness of breath. I thought the explanation that it can be a symptom of quitting smoking pure wishfulthinking, until I found this topic, written by people who quit smoking and are not vaping: Shortness of breath after stopping smoking · Nicotine Addiction discussions | Emotional & Mental Health center | SteadyHealth.com

Regardless, I decided to schedule a lung doctor for next week.

 

[W Axl Rose]

Please post the results, and best of luck!

-W

 

[Fabio Chaves]

When I went, the shortness of breath had subsided, gratefully. X-rays came back clear. Breathing test confirmed I have asthma and should use inhalers (something I already do since I was ten anyway). He approved of the vaping, however. When I told him I switched, he conducted the rest of the consultation as if I was an ex-smoker, pure and simple.

I bought a lot of snus. I didn't like it much, but I decided they are definitely an option for several occasions (not the least long flights).

 

[SethGrimm]

I'm a vocalist so the health of my lungs(ironically I smoked cancer sticks carelessly)is very important to me. I can personally speak on how fantastic my lungs are functioning since vaping.

I no longer have to take a breath after every 5 words, I can take a huge breath and let out a belt for 15 seconds and still have air left in my lungs afterwards, I am no longer gasping for air after a song, I can go on a 30 minute jog and not be gasping for air, I can run up my stairs and my breathing isn't altered...you get it.

I have always used 80/20 pg/vg and just recently began vaping AiV's juice at 90/10 vg/pg and don't have any detrimental reactions to either. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

I absolutely love vaping and I know for certainty I will never quit vaping. Which is something I never said about smoking. The moment I tried my first cigarette as a teenager I knew I would eventually quit(even though I loved it). I love vaping many moons more than I loved smoking and the idea of quiting or worse "having to quit" brings me great sorrow. I support everyone's decisions and I think being a non-smoker is the only important goal but vaping and the exciting gear and juices and the wonderful folks I meet are something I couldn't imagine giving up. I am investing my money and time into the for the long run.

Sorry everyone....I'm getting dramatically off topic.


On topic, has anyone heard about the "vg causes pneumonia" articles? Any thoughts? From what I understand the vg used in food is much different from the pharmaceutical grade vg used in ejuice. Apparently the food grade vg has a oil compound in it that pharmaceutical grade ejuice vg doesn't. Oil in your lungs? I'd understand the misconception.

 

[SethGrimm]

Ps. The only time I've ever really had any chest tightness with vaping is when chain vaping late at night some of totally wicked's titan ice menthol. Which is VERY strong menthol. I assumed It was the cooling effect that caused it because I've never experienced it again since discovering high quality juice and becoming a dedicated tobacco juice vaper.

Never happened again. But it hurt.

 

[patkin]

I do, after three months of vaping. On cigs I never had this problem in the 12 years I smoked. Vaping 3 months and now I am having trouble breathing. The first few months were fine, symptoms just started last week. I am getting a lung function test done next week.
Anyone else have this issue??

Nope. Just the opposite in fact. For the first time in over a dozen years I can breath deeply and easily. I vape 70%VG/30%DW and that actually helped clear all the crud out of my bronchials that not only caused spasmatic coughs while in bed but stopped my fear of another herniated disk in my neck as a result of that coughing. I now walk a mile a day without getting winded. I was pretty much a couch potato while smoking due to shortness of breath.

 

[SethGrimm]

On the shortness of breath issue do any of you have anxiety or have you been evaluated for it? One of my sisters has chronic hyperventilation disorder, which is basically a trait of anxiety which to put it simply is the chronic awareness of your breathing which leads to wondering if you're breathing is normal which THEN causes you to take in more oxygen than you need sometimes causing dizziness and the feeling of not getting a good enough breath. It can be mistaken as a life threating disorder but it's merely physiological similar to panic disorders. Some symptoms include frequently yawning, constantly taking in deep breathes, dizziness, shakiness, and lightheadedness.


Not trying to diagnose anyone just an idea to share with your doctor if you have these symptoms.

 

[normalstin]

I just wanted to post here as I've read the entire thread and think I can bestow a bit of my own experience.

I was a smoker for ~12 years. I quit and took up vaping 3 years ago, or so. I have not smoked since. So I've already gone through the "cleansing" period years ago and have been happily vaping with no issues...until about a month ago when I started feeling the symptoms described: shortness of breath, wheezing, crackling, heavy chest, etc. But only at night. I pretty much refuse to give up vaping, so I took matters into my own hands when it got so bad I couldn't sleep. I wanted to blame something, anything, other than my beloved vaping. Allergies. Mold. You name it. But it wasn't any of that.

In my case, I can say with 100% certainty that it was the flavor addition I was adding to my DIY juice. I know this because it was a new flavor line (totally wicked gold standard), and I stopped flavoring my juice just to see what would happen. No more breathing problems, period. There wasn't even a period of the effects tapering off. They were just gone immediately.

So, now I am happily vaping non-flavored juice. I enjoy 100%PG, or a bit of VG mixed, just depends on my mood, but nothing above 70PG/30VG. I never had a problem with totally wicked's red label, but the gold did me in. Come to find out I was flavoring pretty high (over 20%...but that was by their directions!). If I ever tried flavoring again, I'd certainly use less than I was before (maybe 5%), but I'm still pretty terrified of breathing that stuff in, knowing what it can do to you.

So, there you have it. I just joined this forum to post this. Hope it helps someone, and thanks for reading!

 

[Beccca]

Yes, noticing shortness of breath when walking or climbing stairs. My lungs are clear the Dr. says....but am not sure whats going on. I cough up slimy phlem...not like before...I think the juices coat the lungs.

 

[rolygate]

Some points on what has been discussed:

- For some people, smoking suppresses asthma. When they stop smoking, whether they are vapers or not, the asthma comes back with a bang. This can confuse the issue mightily. It's a well-known effect because when you think about it, an asthma sufferer should be well and truly done in by smoking - but they're not.

- It is impossible for all liquids to be well-tolerated by all vapers. Ain't gonna happen. You have to test and trial, especially if you have a new breathing issue. Especially if you changed something recently. Flavourings are the big issue here, but not always the whole story.

- All PG is very similar as it is all synthetic. However the contaminant percentage content varies widely according to how much it costs, basically:
Industrial grade
Agricultural grade
Food grade
Pharmaceutical grade

Only pharma grade is suitable for inhalation, all other grades are guaranteed to contain contaminants in higher amounts. All it takes is for your e-liquid vendor to buy a cheap grade and there you go. Try another vendor with higher quality values.

- Although all PG mixes should essentially be the same, as PG is a synthetic product, the same is definitely not true of glycerines. They are made from so many different feedstocks, in so many different ways, that it can be guaranteed that someone will be intolerant to a variety that others find no problem to vape. The grade/cost issue is the same of course - you can't tell if they are using cheap rubbish or not, so try another brand. None of them post a full analysis of their finished retail product monthly, and there are good reasons for that. Cost of testing isn't really a factor for firms turning over hundreds of thousands of $$ a year (and certainly for those turning over millions a year, and there are many more of those than you think). There are other reasons, none of them valid in my mind. I just don't trust anyone who won't post an analysis, and that's all there is to it.

There are all sorts of issues with glycerine feedstock sources. Contamination, biodiesel byproduct glycerine getting into the chain, jatropha plant toxins getting in there, etc etc. Here's a story that might convince you:

I am a 100% glycerine vaper because at first I had issues with PG. That has receded now but I stick with glycerine because it works for me. I don't call it VG by the way because the finest quality of all now is synthetic glycerine like Dow's Optim, it is 100% synthetic and 100% pure, and also many pharma sources are changing their PG inhaler base over to that as they find it's a better choice. It's true that 3 years back, veg glycerine was the best choice as animal glycerine was the main alternative.

Anyway, I've tried lots of glycerines and most are OK for me. A while back, though, I got a new one to try. On day 2, I was having breathing issues. On day 3 breathing was becoming difficult. I stopped using that brand as it was obvious what the problem was. If I'd stayed with it, on day 4 I'd have been in hospital and in deep wotsit.

So there can be significant differences between glycerines. Yes Ecopure is safe, because it's expensive, because if they had any kind of user issue with it they would literally lose millions (it's complicated why, but they would).

I challenge anyone to show me something cheap and safe, and prove it with a 99.5% analysis by GC-MS and LC/LC and/or whatever else it takes to get to a 99.5% analysis including the water content. Strangely, you won't see many full tests on vendors' sites. None, at least for current analyses, as far as I know. Maybe because they are trying to sell you something 'cheap and safe'.

There ain't no such animal. Prove me wrong.

 

[tenshi]

Had to switch from PG to VG. PG kicks up my asthma where VG seems to help loosen any tightness. My coughs are far more productive since I switched to mostly VG.

 

[mostlyclassics]

Excellent post, rolygate!

For some people, smoking suppresses asthma. When they stop smoking, whether they are vapers or not, the asthma comes back with a bang. This can confuse the issue mightily. It's a well-known effect because when you think about it, an asthma sufferer should be well and truly done in by smoking - but they're not.

When I was very young, I had severe asthma. It was so bad that my parents were seriously thinking of relocating from the Chicago area to Arizona or New Mexico. When I was five years old (in 1953), my father's company transferred him to Genoa, Italy, to consult with Olivetti on setting up a typewriter factory. When there, the American Consulate found us a family doctor, a kindly avuncular sort who was pushing seventy, so his medical training occurred around the turn of the 20th century. He instantly diagnosed me as asthmatic, then he took five-year-old me into his office and taught me how to smoke a cigarette. Needless to say, my parents were both aghast when they found out. But in post-War Italy, apparently prescribing cigarettes was the first thing a doctor tried on a patient to get severe asthma under control. I don't remember all that much about our year-long sojourn in Genoa, but I do remember that I felt really decent for several days -- no breathing problems, no cough, no gasping or wheezing. Then, over months of living in what seemed to Americans to be a filthy city, my asthma gradually lessed, probably from the workout my immune system got in Genoa. Since then, I just have had to not strenously exercise in the cold and I've been mostly okay. Mo meds, no inhaler.

Long before both my parents died, I did verify with each separately that this actually occurred and wasn't a figment of my imagination.

And every time I tried to quit cigarettes during adulthood, a week to ten days after the quit date, my asthma would return. But not when I started to vape. Yes, I had "quitter's flu." But if you've had asthma, it's easy to tell the one from the other.

 

[denali_41]

there is only one juice vendor using 100% synthetic PG or VG ,,as it is three times more expensive then non-synthetic !!

 

[rolygate]

Tell us who, then

 

[denali_41]

Ask the right people the right questions,,if they like and trust you enough they will tell you,,i am not a blabber mouth

 

[cags]

Ask the right people the right questions,,if they like and trust you enough they will tell you,,i am not a blabber mouth

I don't understand this answer!