Are Panasonic batteries safe to be used with ecigs.

[Ratman]

Since we have some battery experts here, I would realllllly appreciate some info on the Panasonic NCR18650A green 3100mah battery without the PCB. I have a half dozen of these and the rest of my 18650s are AW IMR 178650 2000mah. How do these compare for vv od and mechanical mod applications? I usually run 2.2ohm carto tank at about 4.2v on my vv mods, provari or sigelei zmax or with a kick, and I run 1.1-1.3ohm RBAs on my mechanicals.

I have spent quite a few hours trying to learn more about the pannys but all of the info I find is specific to flashlights, not ecigs.

 

[Rader2146]

The simple answer is since they do not have a protection circuit, they should not be used.

Performance wise, @ 3A the NCR18650A is nearly identical to the AW IMR 2000mAh down to 3.3V, both offering ~37 minutes of run-time with a constant 10W discharge. Even though they have an additional 1100mAh capacity, its all in the lower voltage range that isnt usable for PV's.

 

[Fury83]

The NCR18650PD's are the only NCR's I have ever seen listed as "hybrid/high drain". It's kind of like how cgr18650ch's are hybrid/high drain and cgr18650cg's are not. Please make sure you are purchasing the one's you intend to.

 

[LycanFury]

Really nice response, and thanks to all, thanks Rader2146 for the numbers and charts. I also found another set of High drain batteries.

Samsung ICR 18650 26F - Samsung ICR18650 2600mA Li-Ion Battery

Did any one have any experience in using these.

Thanks
LF

 

[Fury83]

Really nice response, and thanks to all, thanks Rader2146 for the numbers and charts. I also found another set of High drain batteries.

Samsung ICR 18650 26F - Samsung ICR18650 2600mA Li-Ion Battery

Did any one have any experience in using these.

Thanks
LF

I can't find any specific information about that but as far as I know the ICR's are not high drain, the Samsung INR's are very high drain.

edit: I think those (26f) are the ones that come with the Evic, I would not push it hard or use it in a mech. They are not what people on here would consider safe chemistry or high drain, just an unprotected Li-ion.

 

[chillaxing]

are the 18500 or 18350 ultrafire safe from fasttech

 

[Blix]

are the 18500 or 18350 ultrafire safe from fasttech

Nope, Ultrafire is crap. Buy only AW IMR or Efest IMR in those sizes.

 

[nipurava]

[Announcer voice] On this installment of Battery Busters^TM: Is the newest, trendiest, battery really the best? Stay tuned for more...

Ok, now that I got that out...what is best? Best for you? Best for someone else? Best for everyone? Best for mech's? Best for VV?

There is not a single answer that covers all of those questions. "Best" is reserved for a very narrow scope with a specific use on a specific PV for a specific person. There are a handful of batteries that will perform very well over the entire spectrum, but "best" needs to be specific.

So lets take a look at how they perform...

CGR18650CH 2250mAh vs NCR18650PB 2900mAh



3A discharge = ~1.3Ω coil in a mech mod, or ~10W on a VV or VW device.

Most won't vape a mech mod down below 3.5V so anything below 3.5V should be ignored. They are pretty similar with the NCR18650PB having a slight advantage.

On a VV/VW device the NCR18650PB has a decent run-time advantage if you run it down to the PV's low voltage cutoff of 3.2V.

Now lets turn up the heat...

CGR18650CH 2250mAh vs NCR18650PB 2900mAh @ 7A



7A = ~.6Ω coil on a mech mod.

CGR18650CH has a moderate advantage in holding a higher voltage under heavier load. The NCR18650PB shows (IMO) a slightly disturbing plateau @ 3.6V. Typically this happens when the battery is being pushed close to it's limit (chemically) and once the cell gains some heat the chemical process improves resulting in the plateau.

Old and forgotten? AW IMR 1600mAh vs NCR18650PB



AW IMR 1600mAh holds much better voltage under heavy load. Meaning your mech mod will have more run-time before you hit the point where you typically change to a fresh battery.
_________________________


So the answer to what is the best battery? There is no correct answer. But if you can narrow it down to your specific use, then the correct answers will start to appear. The current trend, or the latest and "greatest" may not be the correct answer. Sometimes "Old and forgotten" might be a better choice.

In the context of this thread:
-The NCR18650PB would perform very well in a VV/VW device that is limited to 15w or in a mech mod with a >1.3Ω coil.
-In a Mech mod with a <1.3Ω coil. The old and forgotten AW IMR 1600mAh performs great and is readily available from many retailers. However, there is also the Samsung INR18650-20R 2000mAh that will outperform the AW 1600 across the board...but it is not so readily available.

Hi Rader2146
form the charts you given i have understood that CGR18650CH hits hard but does not last as long as NCR18650PB.
is it safe to use NCR18650PB & CGR18650CH batteries for 0.6ohm coil on a mech with out safety fuse?

 

[madstabber]

You really shouldn't use unprotected in a mech without a fuse. Just so yall know I think the battery above should read ncr18650pd not pb. It is a panasonic which I have and it lasts about a half a day to a day longer than the cgr18650ch's. It can handle 10a constant discharge and up to 18a in pulse mode.

 

[Rader2146]

Hi Rader2146
form the charts you given i have understood that CGR18650CH hits hard but does not last as long as NCR18650PB.

Just the opposite. The CGR/CH holds a higher voltage longer than the NCR/PD. Since most people wont vape a mech mod down below 3.5V, you can ignore the curves below that voltage. At 7A (~0.6Ω coil) the only advantage that the NCR/PD has is below ~3.1V where the lines cross. Nobody would vape at that voltage. Another factor is the immediate drop in voltage from the beginning. The CGR/CH drops about .25V where the NCR/PD drops nearly .5V. This means that every time you press the button you will likely have a .25V advantage with the CGR/CH. Unless you are a serious chain vaper, you wont be holding the button long enough to build up any heat to improve the chemical response to let the NCR/PD plateau out.

is it safe to use NCR18650PB & CGR18650CH batteries for 0.6ohm coil on a mech with out safety fuse?

Batteries are only as safe as the human using them, so with exception of human induced issues...yes, they are safe. I run a CGR/CH with a .5Ω IGO-L on my Sig #8. After the voltage drop, it's about 7.9 amps.

 

[Rader2146]

You really shouldn't use unprotected in a mech without a fuse. Just so yall know I think the battery above should read ncr18650pd not pb. It is a panasonic which I have and it lasts about a half a day to a day longer than the cgr18650ch's. It can handle 10a constant discharge and up to 18a in pulse mode.

Oops...good catch. Too late to edit the previous post, so I hope everyone acknowledges the mistake.

 

[nipurava]

thanks Rader2146 for the clarification

 

[Crocky]

The following r the best... and they r Pannys

That is helpful but this may be a stupid question....are these protected? I does not state or at least I did not see it.

 

[Crocky]

That is helpful but this may be a stupid question....are these protected? I does not state or at least I did not see it.

Oh and by the way I would like it be able to use these on both my kamry 100 and my segelei zmax and maybe my future vmod

Sorry I should have copied the other part including battery info quoted by qorax....as these are the batteries I am talking about.


"BEST 18650 batteries for our Mods

Panasonic High Drain Hybrid Li-Mn/Li-Ion Batteries:

Top No.1: Panasonic NCR18650PD 18650 3.6V 2900mAH
Cheapest Find: $15.14 (2-pack) @ fasttech.com with Free Shipping Worldwide

Top No.2: Panasonic CGR18650CH 18650 3.7V 2250mAh
Cheapest Find: $9.52 (2-pack) @ fasttech.com with Free Shipping Worldwide

Get them and u'd thank me forever...
______________________________________________
"The best 18650 battery (tested, and confirmed) for ProVari personal vaporizer users". -Orbtronic"

 

[she.ra]

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1345500

i just ordered a set of these.
has anyone had experience with the type of protection they have?
has anyone actually got a pair of these batteries?
sorry for the questions, could not find a specific forum for panasonic batteries.
this is not intended as a hijack.

thanks.

i should add they are to be used with a siegeli#20, no fuse.
my standard is .8ohm, 32kanthal, wire rope wick 1/8th 7x7(316).
the batts claim high drain and support ticket yeilded a "yes" for protection.

 

[Blix]

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1345500

i just ordered a set of these.
has anyone had experience with the type of protection they have?
has anyone actually got a pair of these batteries?
sorry for the questions, could not find a specific forum for panasonic batteries.
this is not intended as a hijack.

thanks.

i should add they are to be used with a siegeli#20, no fuse.

Email Fasttech right away, and change your order, those should not be used with a mechanical mod. Change the oder to the Panasonioc NCR18650PD instead.

 

[she.ra]

Email Fasttech right away, and change your order, those should not be used with a mechanical mod. Change the oder to the Panasonioc NCR18650PD instead.

can you explain more, why should they not be used.
thanks.
the pd's are identical accept the mah, are they not, same type of protection too right, a strip down the side or disk.
i dont know, i have always used unprotected, but have decided to venture into these so-called protected batts.

 

[Blix]

can you explain more, why should they not be used.
thanks.
the pd's are identical accept the mah, are they not, same type of protection too right, a strip down the side or disk.
i dont know, i have always used unprotected, but have decided to venture into these so-called protected batts.

You shouldn't use proteced batteries in a mech mod. The 18650PD isn't protected but it's made for high drain and have so-called hybrid safe chemistry which will not explode if a hard short should occur.

The PD's are possibly the best batteries for mech mod use you can find now.

 

[she.ra]

You shouldn't use proteced batteries in a mech mod. The 18650PD isn't protected but it's made for high drain and have so-called hybrid safe chemistry which will not explode if a hard short should occur.

The PD's are possibly the best batteries for mech mod use you can find now.

i am having trouble with your logic.
can anyone else chime in here please.

to be fair, i understand your claim about safe chemistry but, that over a physical fail safe?

"In any case, the use of an unprotected NCR18560B should be limited to an advanced mod that has protection built into the electronics. They should not be used unprotected in a mechanical mod"
quoted from a guy at the vaporsden.
thats unprotected, these i bought have a strip down the side and claimed protected by fastech support
ticket.

ahhh, i just went ahead and ordered a set of those batts you recommended.
we will see witch ones vent hyot gass first, hehe.
im moving on from this discussion, i see it going in a direction not intended.

i think the only thing i should really be worried about here is short-circut, these are both high drain, high amp batts.
i got some shortstops ordered from the other day.

 

[Blix]

i am having trouble with your logic.
can anyone else chime in here please.

to be fair, i understand your claim about safe chemistry but, that over a physical fail safe?

"In any case, the use of an unprotected NCR18560B should be limited to an advanced mod that has protection built into the electronics. They should not be used unprotected in a mechanical mod"
quoted from a guy at the vaporsden.
thats unprotected, these i bought have a strip down the side and claimed protected by fastech support
ticket.

ahhh, i just went ahead and ordered a set of those batts you recommended.
we will see witch ones vent hyot gass first, hehe.
im moving on from this discussion, i see it going in a direction not intended.

i think the only thing i should really be worried about here is short-circut, these are both high drain, high amp batts.
i got some shortstops ordered from the other day.

If you hang a bit in the mech mod section you'll soon notice no one is really using protected batteries, all you see are AW IMR, Efest IMR and lately a few Panasonics, the PD and the CG%18650CH(also a high-drain battery).

Protected batteries are not safe chemistry, and also the low ohm vaping we tend to do on mechs will probably trip the protection circuit left and right, and if a hard short should happen, there is a chance the protection insn't enough and we have a exploding battery in our hands. Better safe than sorry.
Personally I regard unprotected IMR as safer than protecded li-ion.