That might be the level of exposure calculated. IIRC bloodstream measurements were made and found no detectable difference. Of course, it is likely that one tortilla chip with salsa would also be undetectable.
Are we winning?
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That might be the level of exposure calculated. IIRC bloodstream measurements were made and found no detectable difference. Of course, it is likely that one tortilla chip with salsa would also be undetectable.
Thanks Bery, that study escaped me totally, I must have been in the Vaper zone when it came out. I only read your link page so far but I wish they had gone one step further. They should have included a 5 hour control group. I would expect that 5 people in an enclosed room for 5 hours would have some naturally occurring increased level of TOCs.
I'm pretty positive you put Slantz, Prude, Replace, Friedhead and another smack in a room for 5 hours and the toxic levels are sure to rise.
I'm reminded of the one ANTZ study (term used loosely) where they gleefully announced that second-hand e-cig vapor contains trace amounts of formaldehyde, while conveniently neglecting to mention that formaldehyde is a normal byproduct of human respiration.
Duly quoted again by Richter in NYT:
ny times[/url]. com/2014/05/04/business/some-e-cigarettes-deliver-a-puff-of-carcinogens.html?_r=0
Duly quoted again by Richter in NYT:
ny times[/url]. com/2014/05/04/business/some-e-cigarettes-deliver-a-puff-of-carcinogens.html?_r=0
I didn't make it far. Stopped reading after this:
Holy crap. A handful. That's like what... 4 or 5 pounds? 8-o
I like your attitude.
It's already worse in some countries. If a Supreme Court judge chooses to ban the sale of electronic cigarettes altogether - as happened in the State of Western Australia - you have no hope of fighting it, and no way of stopping it's spreading to other States because it is all too easy for lawyers to cite legal precedents and for judges to accept them. And moaning about it amongst ourselves is not going to solve anything. All we can do in Australia is to petition our politicians at State and Federal levels firstly to make them aware about the existence of e-cigs, make them realise that there could be some votes in it for themselves, and hope that a few might be prepared to actually do something useful and honest - no matter how unlikely that is. The biggest concern of our government is that their policy of increasing the taxes on cigarettes has lead to more illicit trade (smuggling of originals and sale of replicas). Imperial tobacco is working closely with the government to stamp out this shocking, illegal trade! Publicly of course the government states that their policy of increasing tax rates on cigarettes from 60c per death stick to 65c this year and at 12.5% pa thereafter is all part of their dedication to the health of the citizens by pricing them out of the reach of those citizens. Great if it worked, of course, but it doesn't. If addicts can't buy what they need they cut down on something else, like food for their kids, or steal it or buy from somebody else who has stolen it, whatever. The one thing they don't do is give up their addiction - if only it were that easy!
It seems your FDA proposals are just the first round of a US Championship fight. Just be prepared to slug it out for the next few rounds and guard against any attempt at a quick knockout as happened in the WA fight. To be precise, the ecig vendor won the first round of a case brought against them by the so called Health Department. The Health Department appealed and the Supreme Court judge upheld the appeal (KO, round 2).
As a side issue, I was reading about how Ruyan, the Chinese inventor and holders of worldwide patents for electronic cigarettes, had launched some patent violation suits a few years back and then Imperial tobacco bought out all of Ruyan's inellectual property rights - you got to wonder why!. The Chinese had the last laugh because those patents did not cover the sorts of atomizers and cartomizers which we all use these days. But you have to wonder how many vendors are fronts for Big Tobacco who are hedging their bets - it's really a win-win scenario for them. You would expect them to be big operators. And from what I have read the FDA regs will make life difficult for the small guys, not so much for the big ones. Conspiracy theories - who said "just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that they are not out to get you"?
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I find that the regulations are stated in such a way that they will have way too much power in the future. Enough to ban just about whatever they want and tax the hell out of anything they want. I don't think these regulations paint a much more bleak picture. The only thing that doesn't bother me about the various attacks we've had from all sides is the public vaping. I'm in Florida and right now there aren't any bans like this. If they're implemented here, I don't plan on obeying them anyway. The laws themselves are illegal because they go against the constitution. If you're fined, contest it. If you lose in court, refuse to pay it. There's no legal way to enforce this law.
And in related news--here we go!
CASAA: First Call to Action for FDA Proposed Regulations - Consumer Request for an Extension of Comment Period
CASAA: First Call to Action for FDA Proposed Regulations - Consumer Request for an Extension of Comment Period
This is an INTRODUCTORY proposal, meant to LOOK mild. Be aware, all the rest of the stuff including banning DIY nicotine, cannot be done until AFTER Congress lets the FDA "deem" our products to be tobacco. So once that is done, the FDA can do anything they want.
THAT is why this looks so mild. It's a foot (and the front of tank treads) in the door.
I too am thrilled about the 2 years, but that is the ONLY good news and even that is a Trojan Horse.
Make the FIRST regulation LOOK mild, but fill it full of hooks on which to hang the whole shebang.
If the FDA gets this approved as-is, there will be BT and NJoy and maybe 1 more cigalike maker in the market, and no DIY except black market, 4 years from now.
So, as the CASAA and other legal experts have said, 1. Fight this, carefully, following CASAA plans and 2. Hope more smokers switch in the meantime and impress the hell out of their doctors.
THAT is why this looks so mild. It's a foot (and the front of tank treads) in the door.
I too am thrilled about the 2 years, but that is the ONLY good news and even that is a Trojan Horse.
Make the FIRST regulation LOOK mild, but fill it full of hooks on which to hang the whole shebang.
If the FDA gets this approved as-is, there will be BT and NJoy and maybe 1 more cigalike maker in the market, and no DIY except black market, 4 years from now.
So, as the CASAA and other legal experts have said, 1. Fight this, carefully, following CASAA plans and 2. Hope more smokers switch in the meantime and impress the hell out of their doctors.
And as long as smokers who don't vape can still switch! If they can't (or won't because of ANTZ propaganda) we're losing and we get to vape for 2-5 years while we lose. Even frozen bottled nicotine probably doesn't last forever.
We need a lot of ex-smokers to impress the hell out of their doctors in order to recruit the new vapers, their families, their doctors, their lovers, etc to CASAA. (My sister joined, btw!)
We just need to unite and be a single strong voice.
I believe the real truth is that it's all about lost revenue and market share. Tobacco, health care and Pharma are feeling the tides turning. They are forcing their bought and paid for government officials to act. Its no longer about our health and welfare; they wont even look at the documented facts of how vaping has saved lives and improved quality of life for many people. They needed a rally cry and it's "save the children" when its a parents morale obligation to do just that, not the governments.
It's no longer about the people or the welfare of the people, the government has no concern for such nonsense, its money. Tobacco, the health care industry and Pharma foot the bill through lobbyist every election and they are calling in their markers. There is deep concern that more people are not using their products and margins will continue to erode.
The only way we win this is for us all to get involved, join CASAA and if you can make a donation to help fund the lawyers that will fight for our rights.
I believe the real truth is that it's all about lost revenue and market share. Tobacco, health care and Pharma are feeling the tides turning. They are forcing their bought and paid for government officials to act. Its no longer about our health and welfare; they wont even look at the documented facts of how vaping has saved lives and improved quality of life for many people. They needed a rally cry and it's "save the children" when its a parents morale obligation to do just that, not the governments.
It's no longer about the people or the welfare of the people, the government has no concern for such nonsense, its money. Tobacco, the health care industry and Pharma foot the bill through lobbyist every election and they are calling in their markers. There is deep concern that more people are not using their products and margins will continue to erode.
The only way we win this is for us all to get involved, join CASAA and if you can make a donation to help fund the lawyers that will fight for our rights.
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