Are we winning?

[Talyon]

In answer to the OP, it would appear NOT as the FDA has fed us a bone by saying hey were here far yah look we didn't ban your vape stuff (yet) and we allowed Internet sales (for now) we also didn't take away your flavors ( lol until later, muahhahahahahaha!)

Oops we also hope u don't actually read the rest of the 200 pages ( lol that'll keep them busy) of our dooming err, deeming regulations . ( poor stupid Vapers can't read can they?)

Hey did someone press Send?

vape for Freedom.

 

[rothenbj]

I have a friend that ran for senator in New Jersey who was willing to sue the New Jersey Criminal System. He has no fear and would probably take on a class action suit! We will definitely win in the end. I have medical records to prove how unhealthy I was compared to how healthy I will be as time goes by. They need to back off!

I got some really bad news from my doc after I quit smoking and moved to just vaping and using snus. His prognosis for me was confirmed when I went for a second opinion. I have to accept the fact that my condition is terminal, despite giving up cigarettes,,,, sometime in the future.

 

[rothenbj]

I get my General mini mint from my favorite tobacco shack, but the days of browsing, sampling and ordering a tin of that and a couple tins of this freshly from Sweden are over.

Really! I'm going to have to ask around or perhaps check with some of the stores in my area. You know Hitt and I are big Mint fans. I might have a lifetime supply in my freezer. I wait until someone does a great sale and/or a free shipping (usually on large orders) and stock up. That kind of sucks because I like to buy locally to entice US based sales.

I ended up with a roll of the mini Mints somehow when they shipped the wrong stuff. I thought they'd taste the same as Mint, just smaller. I was wrong and I like the somewhat stronger flavor of the minis. If I could get someone to special order a roll, I'd buy the whole thing. I'm going to check that out.

 

[JollyRogers]

We aren't going to win. We are frogs in a boiling pot. Government is all about regulation and taxation. We have watched it with everything from milk to cigarettes to firearms.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

I got some really bad news from my doc after I quit smoking and moved to just vaping and using snus. His prognosis for me was confirmed when I went for a second opinion. I have to accept the fact that my condition is terminal, despite giving up cigarettes,,,, sometime in the future.

Someone on here had this for a signature line, can't remember who:

"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and it is always fatal."

 

[dice57]

Well, am at least stocked for an heavy engagement battle. Got mods, rba's, wire, wick and DIY juice supplies laid in for the long haul. Getting the Vape Underground established. lol.

 

[rothenbj]

Well, am at least stocked for an heavy engagement battle. Got mods, rba's, wire, wick and DIY juice supplies laid in for the long haul. Getting the Vape Underground established. lol.

Yeah, ECF needs a by invitation only site. Subversive resistance activity.

 

[Zanderist]

The winner will be whom ever can afford 'Big Justice'.

I view E-cigs as something that points out how really flawed things are, and who really is in control.

I of course don't want this to be viewed as crazy tinfoil wearing rant about big brother being real.

But simply who can afford the larger legal defense will win, facts can be spun.

 

[Nate760]

"I view E-cigs as something that points out how really flawed things are, and who really is in control."

Yes, without a doubt. It's also a stark reminder of the fact that "public health" policy has absolutely nothing to do with promoting public health.

 

[randyith]

Nate, I don't care about perceptions. I propose that BT lawyers are not on our side--they are out there to cut a deal for BT--and nobody else. BT is not fighting for their share of the market--they want the whole e-cig market all to themselves.

Unfortunately, I agree 100% with you.

Randy

 

[Berylanna]

We can win if:

1. We increase our per-person involvement average. Instead of 200 activists doing 3 things a week each, we need 20,000 activists doing one thing a month each.

Note: I've been handing out CASAA cards ($2.50 for a big stack) to which I've made labels with a casaa.org QR code and a No More Lies stop sign, and stuck them on the back. I point out, when I give them to a vaper, that they can keep the card AND give it away because of the QR code.

2. We start (and continue) a campaign of getting our NON-SMOKING, NON-VAPING, relatives to write EXACTLY that..they would NOT have supported us as smokers, the DO support us as vapers, and they ARE noticing the BS, and they want their loved ones to continue to stay away from Big Tobacco.

3. We get enough students and retired people onboard so that we can afford to ask people to go to health committees and legislators AHEAD of time. Most full-time working folks do not have the bandwidth to do that.

4. We continue to spread word-of-mouth to smokers. The ANTZ + Media have apparently successfully slowed down the rate at which smokers switch to vaping. THAT we have to combat. See "cards" above.

Money buys votes, but only the votes that are still undecided and therefore "for sale" (via campaign ads.) So we have to take as many votes as possible off the auction block by informing people and converting smokers. THAT is the time to sub-ohm, when passing a smoker on the street!

 

[aikanae1]

And I think more people are mistrusting of the FDA as well.

 

[Nate760]

We can win if:

1. We increase our per-person involvement average. Instead of 200 activists doing 3 things a week each, we need 20,000 activists doing one thing a month each.

Note: I've been handing out CASAA cards ($2.50 for a big stack) to which I've made labels with a casaa.org QR code and a No More Lies stop sign, and stuck them on the back. I point out, when I give them to a vaper, that they can keep the card AND give it away because of the QR code.

2. We start (and continue) a campaign of getting our NON-SMOKING, NON-VAPING, relatives to write EXACTLY that..they would NOT have supported us as smokers, the DO support us as vapers, and they ARE noticing the BS, and they want their loved ones to continue to stay away from Big Tobacco.

3. We get enough students and retired people onboard so that we can afford to ask people to go to health committees and legislators AHEAD of time. Most full-time working folks do not have the bandwidth to do that.

4. We continue to spread word-of-mouth to smokers. The ANTZ + Media have apparently successfully slowed down the rate at which smokers switch to vaping. THAT we have to combat. See "cards" above.

Money buys votes, but only the votes that are still undecided and therefore "for sale" (via campaign ads.) So we have to take as many votes as possible off the auction block by informing people and converting smokers. THAT is the time to sub-ohm, when passing a smoker on the street!

We can only win by winning over the general public, most of whom have never smoked and are conditioned by decades of ANTZ propaganda to revile smokers and anything remotely associated with smoking.

In order to succeed, we have to change the entire paradigm of the conversation, away from a smoking-related issue and toward an issue of liberty and self-determination. Which, as we know, is what it really is.

People need to understand what's actually taking place here, and how it's totally antithetical to the principles and values we were all taught to revere when we were little tiny Americans. They need to understand the extent to which "public health" policy in this country is not motivated, in any way, shape or form, by a desire to improve public health. They need to understand that this issue is much bigger than some smoking cessation device, but that it's a microcosm of a lot of the things that are wrong, unjust, stupid, and corrupt about our society and government.

We have to win over the general public by making them understand that this is merely one battlefield in a much larger war (I hate war analogies, but in this case I can't think of any more fitting metaphor) for the soul of our entire nation.

 

[Berylanna]

Except the junk science gets in the way of the liberty argument. At the Oklahoma hearing, a Dr. from the American Cancer Society talked for 20 minutes about the horrible tragedies he saw as an oncologist, then follows that by saying he's afraid to allow vaping in public because of possible effects on pregnant women. If that was not major major BS and a lie, it would nullify the liberty argument. And, in fact, the ANTZ know that. Hence the winning-over-the-public by showing them it's not harmful, thus making the ANTZ look like fools.

 

[Nate760]

Except the junk science gets in the way of the liberty argument. At the Oklahoma hearing, a Dr. from the American Cancer Society talked for 20 minutes about the horrible tragedies he saw as an oncologist, then follows that by saying he's afraid to allow vaping in public because of possible effects on pregnant women. If that was not major major BS and a lie, it would nullify the liberty argument. And, in fact, the ANTZ know that. Hence the winning-over-the-public by showing them it's not harmful, thus making the ANTZ look like fools.

My first instinct would be to ask the doctor if he was similarly alarmed by the prospect of a pregnant woman cooking a pan of pasta sauce, since the level of exposure to trace amounts of vaporized nicotine would be pretty much the same.

 

[Cloud Junky]

They will need to come on my property first...Alert the dog, I go into Redcon 1 in my fighting position, as soon as they make entrance I start baggin and taggin!!!

 

[Berylanna]

My first instinct would be to ask the doctor if he was similarly alarmed by the prospect of a pregnant woman cooking a pan of pasta sauce, since the level of exposure to trace amounts of vaporized nicotine would be pretty much the same.

Actually, that's not true. She'd have to EAT some of the sauce to reach the same level. At least a tablespoon. (More, if it were not for the fact that people locked in a room with a vaper for 10 hours showed 0 nicotine uptake.....if ALL the nicotine we inhaled came out again into the air, she'd have to eat at least 1/2 serving to get the same blood nicotine.)

 

[rothenbj]

Actually, that's not true. She'd have to EAT some of the sauce to reach the same level. At least a tablespoon. (More, if it were not for the fact that people locked in a room with a vaper for 10 hours showed 0 nicotine uptake.....if ALL the nicotine we inhaled came out again into the air, she'd have to eat at least 1/2 serving to get the same blood nicotine.)

Where did that come from (the emphasized portion)? That would be such a good study. Take a non-smoker that is tested for nicotine prior to experiment. Place in a small room for 8 hours filled with vapers. Test subject each hour. I'd love to see the results.

 

[Berylanna]

Where did that come from (the emphasized portion)? That would be such a good study. Take a non-smoker that is tested for nicotine prior to experiment. Place in a small room for 8 hours filled with vapers. Test subject each hour. I'd love to see the results.

I think it's the one called the "Clearstream Study" --- I read it awhile ago. I think it was done in Utah.

 

[Nate760]

I think it's the one called the "Clearstream Study" --- I read it awhile ago. I think it was done in Utah.

Was that the study that found that if you're in an enclosed, unventilated space for one hour with a person who's vaping the entire time, your level of nicotine exposure is the equivalent of eating one tortilla chip with salsa?