Are you KIDDING ME??? Vape banned for 4th of July!

[Jman8]

For me, it is the public gathering aspect of this, and situation that isn't on private property, held for private individuals.

I can see how it would be possible for vaping to be offensive in a public situation, but it would have to be the sort where vaper is standing inches away from fellow patron and more or less blowing huge cloud in face of fellow patrons. Short of that, and I do not understand the offensive claim that might be made.

I also think if it is mildly offensive and that is grounds for no use at all anywhere on the property, then there are a whole bunch of things currently done in public that fit that criteria, including breathing. Yes, breathing. Everyone could wear a mouth filter to minimize the multitude of things that can come out of you while you are engaging in normal breathing. Up til now, I would say normal breathing in usual public gathering is mildly offensive for some, and non-issue for many. In my experience of vaping in public, I am yet to run into persons who were vocally offended, or showed signs of being mildly offended. I believe such people exist and believe some vapers have come into contact with them in public. But please don't dismiss the notion that of the dozens of times I've vaped in public, I'm yet to run across this, thus showing me a world where it shows up like a non-issue.

On threads like this, it routinely seems like we have persons claiming that vaping in public, is inherently mildly offensive. And claims by me or others that say it routinely comes across as non-issue are then met with notion that people might not display their offensiveness, so secretly harbor that resentment toward all vapers. Yet, the same thing could be said about breathing in public. I would readily agree that it shows up as a non-issue, but for all we know, the majority finds it mildly offensive and chooses not to be vocal about it when out and about.

And if we are moving into a world where vapor is deemed inherently offensive regardless of circumstances in public (indoors, outdoors, no crowd, large crowd, whatever), then I think we will move into a world where breathing without a mouth filter will be deemed inherently offensive. I kinda don't see how that wouldn't play out. Especially considering the idea that us who live in colder climates see people exhaling vapor all the time. And in a world where vaping is treated exact same as smoking in public, with overt shaming being permissible, I see a whole bunch of vapers who realize the game has changed and wish to make sure other things are also treated the same.

I don't think I'd be one of those vapers, but I could be. Any of us could be. Surely, some of us will be. If exhaling vapor outdoors is inherently mildly offensive, then a case will be made, rather easily, that breathing outdoors in public, without a filter over your mouth, is inherently mildly offensive.

 

[Anjaffm]

If exhaling vapor outdoors is inherently mildly offensive, then a case will be made, rather easily, that breathing outdoors in public, without a filter over your mouth, is inherently mildly offensive.

I agree.

 

[CKCalmer]

Great Post. This would make a fantastic base of reasoning in letter form to the man

Thank you for your kind words. The same to everyone here for their kindness. I don't say this often enough, especially when I'm feeling splenetic.

But if anyone wants to use this post or any other I've written as a talking point in support of our cause, then they are welcome to. I would be flattered, in fact.

 

[e-pipeman]

Well basically, I think there are a lot of spoiled people. But what is more concerning is the trend I noticed in last 2 decades, that people don't even seem to LIKE other people anymore.

Maybe it's from sitting behind computers too much or something.

Mainly though, I have no use for inflexible people, IMHO flexibility is a hallmark of being an adult. Toddlers throw tantrums. Adults are able to contain themselve, their emotions and yes, their appetites. I don't believe that inflexible people are "built" for the 21st century in an increasingly populated world.

Inflexibility isn't dependent on whether you are a Vaper or an ANTZ. I;ve seen instances in which it appears to be just 2 different sides of the same mirror.

Adults are supposed to be able to solve the "I want to do this but you don't want me to" challenges in life. That is what living is supposed to teach us.

Funny to me that so many are against compromise, yet compromise is a fact of life. It's a fact of marriage, too.....at least, if you want a successful one. It is the glue that keeps relationships together.

This is an interesting post - let's have a look at some of your points.

"Mainly though, I have no use for inflexible people, IMHO flexibility is a hallmark of being an adult."

Imho adult people have adult responsibilities and are entitled to make adult choices, such as choosing to vape rather than to smoke. Flexibility - isn't that a yoga thing? Being prepared to listen to alternative points of view is always the way to go imho. This does not mean that those points of view should always be accepted.

"Inflexibility isn't dependent on whether you are a Vaper or an ANTZ. I;ve seen instances in which it appears to be just 2 different sides of the same mirror."

I really don't get this. Sounds good, but if you have two different sides of the same mirror you have the front and the back. One side is a mirror, the other isn't. And even if it was a mirror on the other side, then both mirrors would be reflecting different things - they would face in opposite directions. Confusing.

"Compromise" isn't an issue where vaping is concerned. Why should it be?

 

[jpargana]

We've got to get a little more realistic in what we think we should be able to do. There's going to be lots of kids there. If they allow vaping then what kind of message does that send. It says to the kids, oh vaping is ok so I can vape cool. We don't want kids to vape or grow up vapers. So put the vapors with the smokers. Now vaping is as bad as smoking. And honestly, I'm a vapor but I don't want to smell someones blueberry crumble every five minutes from their lungs go past me while I'm sardined in with 10,000 people.

I'm not even that old. Only 43 years.
But back in my time, we kids were TAUGHT that there were activities reserved for adults. Hiding such activities from us would simply NOT work. Kids were not dumb, and we KNEW such things existed. We also knew those things were NOT appropriate for us. Simple as that.
(In fact, I started smoking at the age of fifteen because I used to hang around with older people. Smoking was a way to 'man up' around people who were already in their 17-20 years).

Today, control-freaks want to turn the world where EVERYONE lives (children and grown-ups) into some kind of freaking nursery playground. Adults cannot live a normal, pleasurable life because of the 'childrun', who 'may be impressed' by the things we do - as ADULTS.
The 'childrun' seem to have gotten dumber and dumber in the last years, and cannot tell the difference between 'appropriate' and 'inappropriate' anymore. Or the control-freaks will tell us so.
Well, hiding alchool and tobacco use has NOT stopped kids from getting their little, chubby fingers on those things, has it?

New data from the CDC shows that the e-cigarette may well be helping young people to quit smoking (not that they will see at it like this, but the statistics are there...)

Gateway Hypothesis for Electronic Cigarettes All But Destroyed: Data Show Youth Smoking at All-Time Low
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: Gateway Hypothesis for Electronic Cigarettes All But Destroyed: Data Show Youth Smoking at All-Time Low
New Survey Shows U.S. Youth Smoking Rates Fell to Record Low in 2013 - Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids

Hiding smoking/tobacco from kids has NOT stopped kids from getting into tobacco.
Hiding smoking/tobacco from kids is NOT helping kids to quit cigarettes.
On the other hand, the e-cigarette seems to be HELPING on that. So what should we do? The control-freaks want us to hide it just like if it WAS tobacco, because it 'renormalizes' and 'promotes' smoking. No, it does not. If anything, it promotes QUITTING tobacco by finding a working ALTERNATIVE to it.

 

[Anjaffm]

I'm not even that old. Only 43 years.
But back in my time, we kids were TAUGHT that there were activities reserved for adults. Hiding such activities from us would simply NOT work. Kids were not dumb, and we KNEW such things existed. We also knew those things were NOT appropriate for us. Simple as that.
(In fact, I started smoking at the age of fifteen because I used to hang around with older people. Smoking was a way to 'man up' around people who were already in their 17-20 years).

Today, control-freaks want to turn the world where EVERYONE lives (children and grown-ups) into some kind of freaking nursery playground. Adults cannot live a normal, pleasurable life because of the 'childrun', who 'may be impressed' by the things we do - as ADULTS.
The 'childrun' seem to have gotten dumber and dumber in the last years, and cannot tell the difference between 'appropriate' and 'inappropriate' anymore. Or the control-freaks will tell us so.
Well, hiding alchool and tobacco use has NOT stopped kids from getting their little, chubby fingers on those things, has it?

New data from the CDC shows that the e-cigarette may well be helping young people to quit smoking (not that they will see at it like this, but the statistics are there...)

Gateway Hypothesis for Electronic Cigarettes All But Destroyed: Data Show Youth Smoking at All-Time Low
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: Gateway Hypothesis for Electronic Cigarettes All But Destroyed: Data Show Youth Smoking at All-Time Low
New Survey Shows U.S. Youth Smoking Rates Fell to Record Low in 2013 - Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids

Hiding smoking/tobacco from kids has NOT stopped kids from getting into tobacco.
Hiding smoking/tobacco from kids is NOT helping kids to quit cigarettes.
On the other hand, the e-cigarette seems to be HELPING on that. So what should we do? The control-freaks want us to hide it just like if it WAS tobacco, because it 'renormalizes' and 'promotes' smoking. No, it does not. If anything, it promotes QUITTING tobacco by finding a working ALTERNATIVE to it.

Excellent posting, dear! I fully agree.

 

[5cardstud]

My wife just showed me an article, stating that the good folks who run Calabassas (an upscale community in So. Cal, previous home to Justin Bieber and numerous other celebs) have decided that for this years 4th of July celebration, vapping will be banned in all locations where smoking is banned!

People who use e-cigarettes must go to those designated areas where smoking is permitted.

This is for an OUTDOOR fireworks show! I can understand banning vapping in a restaurant, at a theater, hospital, etc., but come on! Outdoors?!?

UNfrigginBELIEVABLE!

My wife, a non-smoker/vapper, said that she figured we won't be going to see fireworks in Calabassas (we recently moved to the city right next door), as I wouldn't want to go for several hours without vapping. I told her that I'd still go to see the show, but honestly, I won't be happy about not being able to vape!

It's been that way in WA. since last yr. It really makes you question the intelligence of the people running the country. They're either stupid or have financial interest at stake both of which aren't cool for elected officials.

 

[JayQC]

People seriously need to stop with the disparaging comments when someone voices an opinion different from their own.

Wouldn't be any big deal to me if an event I wanted to attend didn't allow vaping or red shirts & brown boots.

Fireworks generally travel a good distance into the air, find a good spot to watch from that isn't on the property that has banned whatever.

Yea it's truly perplexing. Can't vape for a half hour I'm gonna write to Obama.

 

[ej1024]

Just vape indoors,car,restroom just don't be blowing clouds anywhere u go


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[e-pipeman]

Just vape indoors,car,restroom just don't be blowing clouds anywhere u go


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This whole thread has become a discussion of whether this point of view is correct. Some of us would argue that it represents the thin end of the wedge, if not the wedge itself. Most would agree that we should be courteous when vaping - but this doesn't mean not doing it imho.

 

[5cardstud]

Myself I don't need the government telling me to be respectful to others especially this one. I don't go around blowing clouds around others.

 

[Jman8]

Hiding smoking/tobacco from kids has NOT stopped kids from getting into tobacco.
Hiding smoking/tobacco from kids is NOT helping kids to quit cigarettes.
On the other hand, the e-cigarette seems to be HELPING on that. So what should we do? The control-freaks want us to hide it just like if it WAS tobacco, because it 'renormalizes' and 'promotes' smoking. No, it does not. If anything, it promotes QUITTING tobacco by finding a working ALTERNATIVE to it.

Agree with these points and rest of your post.

I do think at some point kids will get into vaping without having first tried smoking. And IMO, I think it is zealous regulations that serve as the gateway. I've thought this way for over 2 decades now. This isn't a one size fits all notion, but I think there is a segment of population that is coming of age and coming to terms with reality that this impacts.

And the way I see it working (or as it worked for me, and some of my peers growing up) is that if we adults emphasize only the negative in attempt to scare kids (i.e. smoking will kill you), then kids will try that and quickly realize the harm aspect is overblown. From here, they'll quickly realize, "perhaps they've been lying to me about other things that they've said were a huge no-no." And thus enter through a door (aka gateway) whereby they are compelled to try other things, just to discover reality for themselves. The more relative good they have from those other things, the more they will try. And doesn't help the anti cause that peers may be using (and enjoying) and adults with jobs/prestige may be using and apparently enjoying. Showing a down and out adult who has spiraled downward, only serves as an example of what not to become with occasional to regular usage.

At the end of the day, and what a child takes awhile to discover (in my observation) is that all these things are coping mechanisms for living in a world where not facing reality of a whole bunch of things is (absolutely) normal. So, regular use becomes habitual use as it helps to cope, and then become own version of escaping from reality temporarily to live with sense of control that is known and comforting. And key reality, that is seemingly never conveyed to a child directly, is there are some very successful adults all around us who use things things, habitually, and life is opposite of spiraling downward. If anything, it becomes far more manageable. I would be hard pressed to find an adult that isn't using something outside of themselves to cope with reality, and who can appear at times to be addicted to that substance, thing, experience.

Not sure how all this relates to topic of this thread other than 4th of July celebrations often strike me as one big (happy) escape from day-to-day reality.

 

[sc12]

I will not be attending and spending my cash at any outdoor event that bans vaping. Drop in the bucket but hey, those drops add up.

 

[e-pipeman]

I will not be attending and spending my cash at any outdoor event that bans vaping. Drop in the bucket but hey, those drops add up.

Exactly. This is why, when I go to a pub in the UK, I ask if they allow vaping BEFORE I order my beer. If they say "No" (rare) I say "Fair enough" - and go elsewhere.

We have to watch out for the Welsh on this one. Their politicos appear to be behaving very oddly about vaping in public. But they are also making a mess of the NHS in Wales - so much for devolved government.

 

[AgentAnia]

Exactly. This is why, when I go to a pub in the UK, I ask if they allow vaping BEFORE I order my beer. If they say "No" (rare) I say "Fair enough" - and go elsewhere.

We have to watch out for the Welsh on this one. Their politicos appear to be behaving very oddly about vaping in public. But they are also making a mess of the NHS in Wales - so much for devolved government.

I'm reminded of Audrey Silk, founder of NYC CLASH and staunch defender of smokers in NYC (and everywhere else, as well, now, of vapers). She has cards printed with the message

"I'M SORRY, I'D LOVE TO STAY FOR MORE DRINKS,
BUT NOT IF I CAN'T SMOKE.
THE LAW HAS TAKEN AWAY FREE CHOICE --
YOURS AND MINE.
THIS IS HOW I CHOOSE TO PROTEST IT.
Help Can the Ban!​

I like this! I may do something similar, like "Sorry, I'd love to stay, but not if I can't vape. So I'll take my business to an ecig-friendly establishment."

 

[CKCalmer]

Can't vape for a half hour I'm gonna write to Obama.

I'll vape where I like. If anyone doesn't like it, they can write to Obama or do whatever else they please. By vaping, I'm not endangering them or anyone else in the world except the livelihoods of big tobacco board members and their pet politicians.

I haven't ACTUALLY reached the point of "vape in one hand, gun in the other", but the world needs to calm down about all this much-ado-about-nothing danger where it doesn't exist, standing in the way of the best thing to happen to cigarette smokers in history. My patience shrinks a bit each day, and what I will NOT do is stand idly by while millions die each year in the face of the very means to stop it from happening.

The replacement of smoking with vaping will occur as a natural progression of our society, and it will be allowed to happen.

 

[jpargana]

(...)

By vaping, I'm not endangering them or anyone else in the world except the livelihoods of big tobacco board members and their pet politicians.

(...)

I'm stealing this line for myself !!

 

[Anjaffm]

I'll vape where I like. If anyone doesn't like it, they can write to Obama or do whatever else they please. By vaping, I'm not endangering them or anyone else in the world except the livelihoods of big tobacco board members and their pet politicians.

I haven't ACTUALLY reached the point of "vape in one hand, gun in the other", but the world needs to calm down about all this much-ado-about-nothing danger where it doesn't exist, standing in the way of the best thing to happen to cigarette smokers in history. My patience shrinks a bit each day, and what I will NOT do is stand idly by while millions die each year in the face of the very means to stop it from happening.

The replacement of smoking with vaping will occur as a natural progression of our society, and it will be allowed to happen.

Excellent post. I fully agree.
And I will also take the liberty of quoting / adopting the bolded part.

 

[CKCalmer]

I'm stealing this line for myself !!

It's yours.

Excellent post. I fully agree.
And I will also take the liberty of quoting / adopting the bolded part.

Thank you.

Quote it, adopt it - it's all OK by me. Whatever it takes for us to bring the world to its senses.

 

[xxJollyRogerxx]

Agree with these points and rest of your post.

I do think at some point kids will get into vaping without having first tried smoking.

Just to comment, they already have. My step-daughter's friends are running around with eGos and 0 nic juice and trying to blow out huge clouds and of course look ultra-cool doing it. And i live on a tiny island I can only imagine what is going on in the "big city"