Ares, new MTL RTA designed by Phil Busardo and Dimitirs Agrafiotis

[Opinionated]

No, no - you're correct. The new one (just released) is 25mm. To be honest, we're leaning against, strictly because we don't need another.

Wow. Did I just say that?

@Katdarling - I think I might be coming down with something...

If the new one has permanent paint it might be worth it, as I personally didn't make that purchase due to the paint complaints.

There... I helped you.

 

[Opinionated]

Had to look it up--I don't own one. So, not really.

• Battery Dimensions: 78mm x 23mm x 37mm

I think there is a lot of newer vape gear geared to new vapers that don't support a 24mm atty...most of what would is geared to cloud chasers.

 

[Katya]

I think there is a lot of newer vape gear geared to new vapers that don't support a 24mm atty...most of what would is geared to cloud chasers.

Well, I'm an MTL vaper and I just discovered that I own 4 mods that can easily accommodate 24 mm atties: iStick 30, Defender, CoolFire IV and Encom Voidray. I only have one big atty ATM, the 25 mm Engine Nano, and it fits on all of them--a hair of overhang on the iStick 30, but it's a 25 mm atty, so I assume that a 24 will be just fine.

The only MTL vapers who are really affected are the old ProVari users (just the old, tube Provis, BTW--the Radius is 25 mm). So I understand that they are unhappy--there's no way to cleanly fit a 24 mm tank on a Provi tube... Other 22 mm box mods will also work--in a pinch--with an added sleeve.

Oh, and the newer Evic Primo, Pico 25, and Wismec P80 are not geared to cloud chasers at all.

 

[Opinionated]

Well, I'm an MTL vaper and I just discovered that I own 4 mods that can easily accommodate 24 mm atties: iStick 30, Defender, CoolFire IV and Encom Voidray. I only have one big atty ATM, the 25 mm Engine Nano, and it fits on all of them--a hair of overhang on the iStick 30, but it's a 25 mm atty, so I assume that a 24 will be just fine.

The only MTL vapers who are really affected are the old ProVari users (just the old, tube Provis, BTW--the Radius is 25 mm). So I understand that they are unhappy--there's no way to cleanly fit a 24 mm tank on a Provi tube... Other 22 mm box mods will also work--in a pinch--with an added sleeve.

Oh, and the newer Evic Primo, Pico 25, and Wismec P80 are not geared to cloud chasers at all.

I only own one mod which would fit a 24mm atty.. one. I wouldn't buy a 24mm atty because of that either when a 22 or 23 looks just fine on that mod. I want attys that will go on anything I have..

That said, I'm not technically a mtl vaper though, I'm more of a restricted lung vaper... but I've been vaping a while - certainly longer than Phil and Dimi' s target buyer, i.e. I'm happier with a Kayfun 5 than I would be with the new prime, for instance, due to the increased airflow.

But, I'm a low wattage vaper and happier with something more similar to a cigarette or more reminiscent of cigarette smoking - hence my love of the Provari's and the Kayfuns and Kabukis.

But the way I smoked was never reminiscent of sucking a malt through a small straw either - hence my displeasure with the tight tight mtl draw attys. I was terribly pleased with the Kayfun 4 and 5 as a result. Same went for my husband, once he had a provari in his hand with a Kabuki tank I was able to get him vaping.

We are all different, I'm just not seeing a huge market for this. There are a few I'm sure, but I can't see myself recommending it to anyone, and I'll certainly never buy it - even though I've considered buying the new siren just to try it and see.

I guess we will see what real world scenarios happen with it. But there are too many reasons not to buy it, and a lack of airflow versatility (its being billed as strictly mtl) as well as size constraints are two good reasons to be distrustful of its overall usefulness to the new, or experienced vaper.

 

[Katya]

I was terribly pleased with the Kayfun 4 and 5 as a result.

Agreed. Me too. I can't do very tight (Erlkonigin, Berserker, Kayfun Lite, cartomizers etc.) anymore. I still consider myself an MTL vaper because, well, I take the vapor into my mouth first--just like I smoked, BTW. Nowadays, I like to "sip" my vapor gently rather than "suck the milkshake through a straw."

And yes, we are all different. Vive la différence!

I want attys that will go on anything I have.

Well, I wish you luck, but it has never been possible, really. Not since we moved on from the cigalikes.

Having said that, I'm not even sure that I'll get the Ares--still waiting for some real life reviews.

 

[Opinionated]

Agreed. Me too. I can't do very tight (Erlkonigin, Berserker, Kayfun Lite, cartomizers etc.) anymore. I still consider myself an MTL vaper because, well, I take the vapor into my mouth first--just like I smoked, BTW. Nowadays, I like to "sip" my vapor gently rather than "suck the milkshake through a straw."

And yes, we are all different. Vive la différence!


Well, I wish you luck, but it has never been possible, really. Not since we moved on from the cigalikes.

Having said that, I'm not even sure that I'll get the Ares--still waiting for some real life reviews.

To be honest, I think what bothers me most is this is essentially a clone. Phil's been vaping a long while, longer than me.. he's been reviewing forever, and the best atty he can come up with is a knock off?

This seems to me similar to cookware that has the name Pioneer Woman attached to it... they aren't better pans, its that they expect the name to sell the cookware - not the quality of the product to sell the product itself.

That's just a for instance, but I'm big on cookware, and I won't buy famous people's cookware for a reason, because it's almost never quality products. Its just a name people are buying.

I'm seeing the same trend in this, and I'm finding it worrysome. If it wasn't a knock off I might have more faith... lol. But it's a knock off.

 

[Nailz]

I'm seeing the same trend in this, and I'm finding it worrysome. If it wasn't a knock off I might have more faith... lol. But it's a knock off.

All tanks are knock off's from the original kayfun, all have a build deck, which you mount a coil, then wick with cotton, they may look a little different, with slight changes, but they all basically work the same way, I agree the ares does look a lot like the siren, but that's what PB found worked so good, so no surprise he went in that direction, and it is not like the siren is the only tank that has the raised deck either.

 

[Carnage9270]

Yeah, the word clone is used a lot. Not sure that word is used accurately at all any more.

 

[Opinionated]

Yeah, the word clone is used a lot. Not sure that word is used accurately at all any more.

When everything is identical with very few exeptions I'm wondering where the innovation is, exactly, that is useful enough to require the purchase of another item.

 

[Katdarling]

Korrect. It's spelled klown.

Ok, so.......... wow, lots to which to respond...

All except for that one Siren V1, right ?? I do so hope you and it can come to a meeting of the minds so to speak.

5-2, we HAVE had a meeting of the minds. If it doesn't leak, I keep it.

Kat, here's one that you might think about. The Sinuous P80.

Thanks, doll!

Might be repeating myself but 24mm is a totally dumb choice of form factor for an atty directed to the m2l market (ie me). I do not have a single mod out of 20 that will take it. Even 23 would have been better. They have completely missed the point here. Most m2l vaper's will be using 22mm atties (or smaller) and will have a set of mods to match. Larger diameters are indeed very popular in the modern world but have been pretty much reserved for bigger air tanks and thus bigger wattages (dual, triple 18650s etc). Why do I need a dual 18650 mod to vape a m2l tank at 18W or whatever? They seem to have have opted for the wrong compromise imho and i find it a little hard to understand..There will be a lot of these in the classies soon....

That will be an interesting event, TOS. We shall see if they emerge in massive multitudes in the Classies. And they may very well do.

I don't see the little (ha ha) 24s as being a dumb choice. I see it as a marketing choice. After all, we've all bought all the 22s and less that are/were on the market. Where can we spend our money (where can they get our money) now?

I get where you're coming from for sure, but 22mm devices are fading away. The people with a stash of old mods will for sure have lots of 22mm mods laying around. It's just not the path devices are taking right now. Being MTL isn't about an old school way of vaping. I think they are aiming it towards new vapers and trying to sway them from smoking. With that, you have to make a design decision on what is more prevalent on the market right now. That would be 24mm devices, unfortunately for most of us.

22mm devices are fading away???????
OMG, I better wrap mine in saran wrap and double layered alu-min-ium, and quickly!!!!!!!!! I haz afraid!

So, I'm curious (and serious now)... is it us, the vapers driving the market, or do you think it's the market driving us? How do you know that larger attIES are more prevalent on the market right now? I'd have zero way of knowing that.

So 24mm+ mods are more popular than Istick pico, evic mini etc etc?? You may be right of course but I still think this is a mistake, at least at the moment!!

But you're going to end up with one of those 25mm JAC Sand Storms real soon now, just like that Boop toon you hang out with.

Boop toon??????????? I'm a Boop toon?

I'M A BOOP TOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

(best post EVAH!)

I thought the one Kat has is 22mm...

I can't see her buying a 25mm personally - yet anything is possible.

Anything is, darlin'. Leaning against, but not so rigid as to say never.
(I'd really need a groovy little reason to even CONSIDER adding a mod to this massive stable of goodies tho. And a tank that's 2mm larger CERTAINLY wouldn't suffice or kwalify as groovy! )

Besides, I've got my eye on the new 26mm...

 

[Opinionated]

Korrect. It's spelled klown.

Ok, so.......... wow, lots to which to respond...




5-2, we HAVE had a meeting of the minds. If it doesn't leak, I keep it.




Thanks, doll!



That will be an interesting event, TOS. We shall see if they emerge in massive multitudes in the Classies. And they may very well do.

I don't see the little (ha ha) 24s as being a dumb choice. I see it as a marketing choice. After all, we've all bought all the 22s and less that are/were on the market. Where can we spend our money (where can they get our money) now?





22mm devices are fading away???????
OMG, I better wrap mine in saran wrap and double layered alu-min-ium, and quickly!!!!!!!!! I haz afraid!

So, I'm curious (and serious now)... is it us, the vapers driving the market, or do you think it's the market driving us? How do you know that larger attIES are more prevalent on the market right now? I'd have zero way of knowing that.






View attachment 701721





Boop toon??????????? I'm a Boop toon?

I'M A BOOP TOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

View attachment 701723

(best post EVAH!)





Anything is, darlin'. Leaning against, but not so rigid as to say never.
(I'd really need a groovy little reason to even CONSIDER adding a mod to this massive stable of goodies tho. And a tank that's 2mm larger CERTAINLY wouldn't suffice or kwalify as groovy! )

Besides, I've got my eye on the new 26mm...

Well, I bought the Tesla 120 nano... big deck, so I can't say never myself.

You have a point about are we driving the market or is the market driving us though. .. good question.

 

[52anddone]

Can an aspire zelos handle a 24mm atty?

Certainly no device that has a similar feel to a cigarette is going to have the capacity to hold a 24mm atty - which is seemingly what PB and Dimi are saying is their target buyer, those new to vaping who want to recreate the smoking experience...

So, they either want to target mtl vapers new to vaping, or they want to target experienced mtl vapers. it seems they cannot make up their minds which it is. Experienced mtl vapers rarely if ever use large mods... but are at least more likely to do so than a new vaper wanting to recreate smoking.

Are they hoping for the new vaper who unwisely bought a large mod they now hate? Possible.

Just not many in the mtl crowd wanting a 24mm atty - certainly not enough to rush out and by a Siren clone for all intents and purpos as at least an authentic Siren v2 comes in a 22mm size which was the most popular size for the original Siren, and an aspect that made it a quite popular rta in the first place.

First off, I don't know how to rate your post, because I do agree with some of it, but, I for one, have always liked the feel of my Presa 100TC, and even my Hohm Tech G2, and Sigelei mini 30's and 50's over any tube mod. I also like the bigger RTA's over the 22mm ones because they are easier for me to put a build in. The real question I have is, are the younger folks getting off of smoking more inclined to buy the bigger atomizers, or the smaller atomizers like most folks in my age bracket. I'm older but like the bigger toppers, I know, I'm....Special, but I see the older folks going "Hey, this has worked for the last 2,3,or 4 years, why change" and the young'uns going "That 22mm stuff is so 2012".

The younger folks want something NEW, and want it to work without having to dink around with it (Siren V1, Cough, Cough), and they don't want something that looks like Grandpa and Grandma use either.

By the way, don't forget about the success of the Berserker, it's a 24mm also, and quite popular I think.

 

[52anddone]

To be honest, I think what bothers me most is this is essentially a clone. Phil's been vaping a long while, longer than me.. he's been reviewing forever, and the best atty he can come up with is a knock off?

I think you might be getting Cloning mixed up with Evolving Tech Design. Cloning is where one company does a direct 1:1 copy, top to bottom (sometimes even the Logo's and packaging), with inferior materials and craftsmanship, then sells it at a reduced price. I have some of those Clones myself.

Evolving Tech Design is what the Automobile Industry has done for decades. One car comes out with a new and revolutionary design, like Fords Flat Head V8 engine, then the next thing we see, Chevrolet has a V8, then Chrysler is coming out with a V8, all copied in part from the Ford V8, but better. That's Evolving Tech Design.

In the Ares RTA I see some Siren, some Berserker, and the way those posts capture the wire (I've seen that before, just can't remember from what atty), and some innovation that advances the whole design to be even better than either the Siren or the Berserker (the juice dams on the deck for one). That's really how Innovation Evolves. Also, a lot of companies figure out how to make the very same item as their competitor, but make it Faster and Cheaper and of the same or Better Quality, and that runs their competition out of business because they now have a product that is too expensive for them to make and they can't keep pace. That's Business.

Hey, I'm not trying to bust your chops, I would never do that, it's just the way I look at all of this, so, I would guess it's a "Point, Counter Point" discussion on what a Clone is.

 

[52anddone]

You have a point about are we driving the market or is the market driving us though. .. good question.

Of course the market's are trying to drive us, All the markets. Just turn on your TV and you will see a commercial for deodorant "You Do have B.O., just use OUR product and everyone will LOVE you". Well, maybe that is not such a good example after all. How about just about any product, the commercial says that we DO need to use it, and when we do, all will be right in the Universe again. Same with vape gear, the industry has tried to turn us all into DL vapers for the 3+ years I have vaped, just by NOT making any new MTL atomizers (and the older ones were not being made anymore). I used to search and search this forum for good MTL atomizers, and when I found a thread about, say an Erlkonigin, I soon found out that it was way out of my price bracket AND harder to find than Hen's teeth, plus FT used to have Clones but don't anymore. What the Vape Market was saying is "If you vape, you will vape the way we want you to vape". I really got tired of trying to make some of those "Big Cloudz Machines" vape like I wanted, a Tight MTL, Low Wattage, and Flavorful vape, and not create a climate shift above my easy chair. Now it looks like, since Digiflavor came out with the Siren, we might have turned a corner. I just hope that the industry doesn't forget about the Restricted Lung, and Direct to Lung vapers out there and swing all the way to just making Tight MTL equipment and leaving the other 2 segments to use Old outdated equipment like the MTL vaper had to try to find, if they can find any that hasn't already been bought up. I could see China's "Big Kahuna" making a phone call and telling all the Chinese Vape Factories "Stop making D2L Atomizers, Make Only M2L Atomizers, mo money, Good for Business".

 

[GeekyGeezer]

Evolving Tech Design is what the Automobile Industry has done for decades. One car comes out with a new and revolutionary design, like Fords Flat Head V8 engine, then the next thing we see, Chevrolet has a V8, then Chrysler is coming out with a V8, all copied in part from the Ford V8, but better. That's Evolving Tech Design.

You hit two of my spots: Cars and words.

Do you realize that Chevrolet had a V8 engine long before Ford? And there is indeed a "clone" engine being used right now. When Toyota wanted to pay NASCAR the huge amount needed to race, they did not have a V8 engine that could be used. They were allowed to study the Chevy, Ford, and Dodge race engines (which had been developed over many decades from real production stuff) and then make their "Toyota" racing engine.

"Clone" still has a very clear definition to me. It's a euphemism so people don't have to say that they support counterfeiting. It's the same way that other words came into use in order to sanitize them: Abortion vs right to choose, Illegal vs Undocumented immigrants, toilet paper vs bathroom tissue, and many more. And no, I'm not looking for any sort of a political discussion. Most would probably be surprised at the views I personally hold.

Yes, technology evolves. But for a patented product to be legally evolved it has to display significant changes in repsect to prior art. We happen to enjoy a hobby area where 90% of the wares are produced by a country that has never seriously believed in patents. So though changing the shape of an airflow slot, using a threaded tank instead of o-rings, or changing the tank size gets accepted as "brand new!" it could never be produced without legal challenge in most parts of the developed world.

And tying my two spots together, you might be surprised at a photo of a particular truck sold in China. If you didn't notice the name in the emblem in the grille (and the emblem is oval shaped for good measure) it looks like any of millions of Ford trucks produced. But Ford didn't build it, partner on it, or approve it.

 

[GeekyGeezer]

And after posting that, I just realized I have reached a personal zenith for thread creep. My apologies to anyone who is reading the thread wanting to learn about a new atomizer.

 

[52anddone]

I'm a slow reader Geezer, and an even slower typer, so give me a few before I respond.

 

[52anddone]

You hit two of my spots: Cars and words.

Do you realize that Chevrolet had a V8 engine long before Ford? And there is indeed a "clone" engine being used right now. When Toyota wanted to pay NASCAR the huge amount needed to race, they did not have a V8 engine that could be used. They were allowed to study the Chevy, Ford, and Dodge race engines (which had been developed over many decades from real production stuff) and then make their "Toyota" racing engine.

"Clone" still has a very clear definition to me. It's a euphemism so people don't have to say that they support counterfeiting. It's the same way that other words came into use in order to sanitize them: Abortion vs right to choose, Illegal vs Undocumented immigrants, toilet paper vs bathroom tissue, and many more. And no, I'm not looking for any sort of a political discussion. Most would probably be surprised at the views I personally hold.

Yes, technology evolves. But for a patented product to be legally evolved it has to display significant changes in repsect to prior art. We happen to enjoy a hobby area where 90% of the wares are produced by a country that has never seriously believed in patents. So though changing the shape of an airflow slot, using a threaded tank instead of o-rings, or changing the tank size gets accepted as "brand new!" it could never be produced without legal challenge in most parts of the developed world.

And tying my two spots together, you might be surprised at a photo of a particular truck sold in China. If you didn't notice the name in the emblem in the grille (and the emblem is oval shaped for good measure) it looks like any of millions of Ford trucks produced. But Ford didn't build it, partner on it, or approve it.

I might have got the order mixed up on the V8 engines, my memory has proven to be suspect these last couple of years but, Technology builds on the shoulders of those that have come before, and this is the only way it can advance. Counterfeiting, or Cloning, is in my mind, a 1:1 Copy of the whole Atomizer (for this conversation) made by someone other than the originator and sold for profit without any compensation going to that originator for his initial efforts. That's how I think of a Clone, and I'm just talking about Vape gear and China. Since we seem to have absolutely no Patent Infringement Laws with China there seems to be nothing to be done about it. Taking for instance, the Siren GTA RTA and copying the elevated deck height and wicking ports and improving that setup does not make it a Siren Clone, but copying it 1:1 in total does. There are enough differences between the Siren and the Ares that the Ares is NOT a Siren Clone, it's more like what the Siren design should have been in the first place. Yes, the Chinese are Master Counterfeiters of Vape Gear, and just about all other aspects of the market place (how else could they have gotten into Space) but, as far as my Vape Gear goes, I really don't care. If I like the Vape that I get, I'm tickled Pink (or some other color), and if I could get some piece of vape gear that vapes like a $150 design (KayFun) that I like because it is MTL and can't afford, and only have to pay $30-$40 for it, I'm Happy as a pig in slop. If a piece that vapes like a $150 atomizer but costs only $30-$40 to make, why are they charging $150 for it, that's over priced and a rip off. There are no Anti-Counterfeiting Laws in Vaping, Vaping is like the Wild West, and I like it, it suites me just fine, being the poor $$ person that I am. If that's the way the game is played, then one should play by those rules or Fail (as a company), not by a different set of rules (your sure to lose). China does a lot of things different than we do, and have a different mind set than we do also, to stay in competition with the Chinese we must do things Better, Faster, and Cheaper. Like someone said earlier, ALL RTA's are to some extent a Clone of the KayFun. I hope I have put my thoughts down in a concise and orderly manner so that you get what I am trying to say, sometimes it's hard for me to communicate in a legible and articulate way so that others don't misunderstand me or my meaning. By the way, Glad to post with you Geezer. Crap, I wrote another book, Sorry Folks. As I always say, why say it in 5 words when you can say it in 50. My Wife calls me a... oh what's that word again ?? It's a memory thing... Please don't hold my bad memory against me, I still cut a striking Image though.

 

[52anddone]

Hey bob, whats up ?

 

[Bigbob2322]

Hey 52- just heading out the door for a long day at work buddy.