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Athiest Converts After Seeing a Demon on His Shoulder!

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lmrasch

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Jim...I totally get your frustration and can see you are really trying to grasp understanding. Your questions are so good, these are questions that many of us have asked and I appreciate your boldness and truth about the things about God that don't seem fair.

Some of your questions are hard, and seem somewhat loaded with sarcasm. This makes it difficult for us to take you seriously and see you at the heart level....but I think many of us in this thread hear your cries loud and clear and more importantly God does...and he cares beyond your ability to understand right now.

God's greatest desire for those that haven't grasped the truth yet is that they still themselves before him and (ask) him to reveal the truth to them. Ask him as truthfully as you've asked us (seek)...He's big enough to handle the tough questions, and then quiet yourself and listen intently. I know that you will find the answers you seek. Sometimes we are screaming so loud at what seems to be injustice that even when the answer is staring us in the face, we can't see it. The next step is to (knock), pray that he reveal himself to you...HE WILL :).

Matthew 7
7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
 

LisaLisa

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Good Morning! Ok, I"m going to take another stab at this one now that I"m rested up! :)

Free will is the question here, and alot of unbelievers have the same question. We were created in His image. The angels were also created with free will. Satan decided, with the use of his free will, that he wanted to be like God, that he deserved to also be worshiped. He was proud and He wanted the glory for himself, he was jealous, proud, haughty. He turned against God and set his sights on God's beloved mankind, to hurt God and to show God that "man will not love you, man will not obey you, man will not serve you if they are given a choice, and I (satan) can prove it!"

This raised a question, he posed a challenge to God, and remember that all of heaven was watching. God could have striked satan and his demons dead right there, but then the question (challenge) would never have been answered properly.

So God said to satan, to go ahead and test my faithful servant Job, but you cant' kill him. Satan did, he brought all kinds of terrible things on Job, but Job remained faithful and proved Satan to be a liar, proved that there are some people that will love God and serve Him no matter what. That they aren't in it for any other reason then to love what is good (GOD) and hate what is bad (satan). Job proved himself worthy of a place in God's Holy Kingdom. He proved that he loved God no matter what, he was faithful. How could he have proved himself, if there was no adversity to overcome? Job has earned his crown in heaven. He chose righteousness.

Every single one of us is being tested to see if we really love what is good, or if we want to eat at both tables. Adam and Eve wanted to eat at both tables, so they disobeyed God when Satan put up a temptation to them. Satan does this to us every single day.

God's creation was perfect as we were created in His image, with personalities, reasoning, thinking abilities, and our own minds. He did not make any mistakes when we were created. He created us, and it was good. It was satan that took that good creation, manipulated it and twisted it into something that he could use against us. And, he did. He took our free will, and turned it into a weapon that he uses to get control over us and manipulate us. How clever. It was not a mistake made by God, it was satan's goal to destroy as many of us as he possibly can, and he uses our free will to do it.

So I believe that the question is not, "Why did God create us with free will?" something you perceive to be a fault, but rather why did God allow satan to live after he turned against God? It's satan that causes all of the pain in the world, satan is responsible for all of it, not GOD. Satan was responsible for the original sin, and satan is responsible for the sin that continues to this very day.

So why did God let satan live only to wreak havoc on the world? Because of the challenge that satan posed to GOD when he turned against HIM in heaven, and that challenge was that no man will serve you if they are allowed to be tempted, and no man will serve you if their life is really hard. That's what satan said, and all of heaven was watching, wondering if it was true or not. God allowed this to happen to prove satan to be the lair because there are people that will serve HIM no matter what. Some won't, but some will, and those that do bring incredible honor, glory, and joy to God.

That was the beginning of the war for our souls. Jesus vs. Satan, both are trying to get our souls. One for good reasons, out of love for us and wanting us to share in His Holy Kingdom, and the other for evil purposes, to try and take away what belongs to God out of hate, jealousy and pride.

That's the time we are living in now, the war for our souls. God saw the struggles of His people, the jews, with their daily sacrifices, their high priests and temples, and all of that. He made it soooooo easy for us by coming here to die for our sins so that there was no need for sacrifices and all of that stuff anymore. You, can at anytime, go directly to Him in prayer and ask forgiveness. He couldn't have made it any easier then he did.

But, we are living in the war for our souls time period. Remember also, in heaven, there is no "time". Time is a physical thing, to the heavenly realm, your entire lifetime is like the blink of an eye. So this time period that God is allowing satan to test and challenge people is only but a day to Him, and it doesn't even register on the scale when you compare it to ETERNITY, and it won't even be remembered when you go to heaven.

The faithful ones, will answer the question, they will prove the challenge that satan made to GOD, and that yes, there is actually people that will serve GOD and love HIM no matter what. Those are the people that are worthy of living in HIS HOly Kingdom. Those are Jesus's friends, followers, and servants.

The souls that satan manages to win, will end up in satans kingdom because they choose to listen to him and his lies. Satan works in many ways with different people. He can read your mind, he knows you very well, and he knows what your weaknesses are. For some people, the "I don't believe in GOD" lie works perfectly. For others, it's the "I believe in GOD, but God is not a personal being, but just a big force that doesn't care what I believe"......that one works very well too. For others it's the "I believe in God, but He did it all wrong, and I could have done it better" lie.....that works too. Or the "it's not fair, I shouldn't have been created with free will cause I can't deal with it" lie, satan loves that one, he's laughing his head off.
For others it's power, money, vanity, pride, selfishness..........and many other things that satan uses because he knows that these things work.

But the good news is that God has set a short time frame for these things to take place. A blink of an eye when compared to forever. He has promised us that He will come back and deliver all that are worthy from His adversary the devil. Time is coming to a close now, He could come at any time. The only question is, which side of the fence will YOU be on when He arrives? That's the only thing that's going to matter to YOU when that day comes.
 
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blondeambition3

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Originally Posted by LisaLisa
Jesus didn't come to earth, suffer a horrible death, to save people from going to heaven. Think about it.

Yes, and to elaborate Lisa's insightful truth even further, 'if' all paths lead to Heaven, regardless of what (even if it's nothing) we believe or follow, then 'why' was Hell created? To remain empty?

The Bible mentions 'Hell' 31 times. On that basis, I believe it's real... but I also believe no one has to go there... it's our choice.
 

LisaLisa

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Yes, and to elaborate Lisa's insightful truth even further, 'if' all paths lead to Heaven, regardless of what (even if it's nothing) we believe or follow, then 'why' was Hell created? To remain empty?

The Bible mentions 'Hell' 31 times. On that basis, I believe it's real... but I also believe no one has to go there... it's our choice.

AMEN sister! :):):):)
 

capecodjim

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There's an amusing movie on TV now....

Evan Almighty (2007), PG

Divine comedy sequel to 2003's "Bruce Almighty." A hilarious Steve Carell reprises his role as newscaster (now Congressman) Evan Baxter, who's summoned by God to build an ark. Is this film funny? Did it rain on Noah? Morgan Freeman once again takes on the role of the deity. Directed by Tom Shadyac, who also helmed the original. Lauren Graham costars as Evan's disbelieving wife. Wanda Sykes, John Goodman, Molly Shannon, John Michael Higgins.

Here's info from the IMDB

Buffalo newsman Evan Baxter is elected to Congress with the slogan, "Change the world." He lucks into a huge house in a new Virginia suburb. His Capitol office is also fantastic, but there's a catch: he's tapped by the powerful Congressman Long to co-sponsor a bill to allow development in national parks. In steps God, who appears to a disbelieving Evan and gently commands him to build an ark. Tools and wood arrive in Evan's yard, animal pairs follow, his beard and hair grow wildly, nomad's clothes and a staff appear. Long grows impatient, Evan starts building, his family leaves him, reporters gather, and drought grips D.C. Still, Evan believes. But will he change the world?

......................................

I've seen this before and it's a good movie... worth watching again! Kinda fits in with the discussion......
 

blondeambition3

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KJV has "hell" 54 times.

instances the exact word 'hell' is used varies by source it appears e... :)

The source "I" referenced indicated 31, but with 'hell' having more than one 'name' or description... 54 is accurate also....

This would depend on the translation being used. In the oldest manuscripts available, the Hebrew word sheol appears 65 times. The King James Version translates this Hebrew word sheol, 31 times as "hell," 31 times as "grave," and 3 times as "pit." So in the "Old Testiment," the KJ version uses the word "hell" 31 times, but it interesting to note that the same Hebrew word Sheol was also translated into two other words, "grave" and "pit."
In the "New Testiment," the King James Version translates the Greek word "hades" in all 10 places it occurs, as "hell." The King James Version also uses the word "hell" or "hellfire" when translating the Greek word "Gehenna" 12 times.
Other Bible translations translate the Hebrew word sheol and Greek word hades in different ways, some don't use the english word "hell" at all, instead trasliterating the Hebrew and Greek words directly as "sheol" and "hades."


Thanks!
 

blondeambition3

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I wouldn't consider that a mis-translation ... aren't they the same thing? The place where souls go to await final judgment in the lake of fire?

Hades/Hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire... etc.

I'm not sure Jason, but that was always my thought...
I found this also;

The greek word "tartaroos" or tartarus from which Hell is translated in 2 Peter 2:4 which describes the deeps parts of the dark pit where the fallen angels are reserved for punishment. This is the same place the demons in the swine did not want Jesus to send them; that is, the Abyss. Also, consider a careful study in the same context of 2 Peter and that is 2 Peter 2:9 which places the deceased wicked in the same place as the fallen angels. Study that verse in the original language or using various clearer versions of the Bible like The English Standard Version.

Read more: Answers.com - How many times is hell mentioned in the Bible
 

Southern Gent

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I wouldn't consider that a mis-translation ... aren't they the same thing? The place where souls go to await final judgment in the lake of fire?

Hades/Hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire... etc.

not the same thing.

Tartarus & Gehenna are the only 2 that should be translated as hell.
Hades and the Hebrew word Sheoul are very closely related. Grave or pit...indicated the realm of the dead.

Actual Gehenna/hell as we speak is not mentioned in the OT.
 
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Saintscruiser

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Whoa! What a thread. I applaud you awesome people speaking the truth. What got me is the offense taken by the newer posters to the words 'satan follower,' to put it nicely. If an atheist doesn't believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, then why the offense? Wouldn't they automatically not believe in satan as well? I ask because I honestly don't know the answer to that question. That makes logical sense to me. Why would that offend? Could it be that they believe that satan exists? And if they do, why wouldn't they want to believe in God to save them from that self-centered, pedestal stanced, (by his own making) fallen angel that seems to want to steal, kill, and destroy. Lucifer is a created being.....an angel who was in charge of worship of God in Heaven, until he wanted the worship for himself. He was kicked out, and 1/3 of the angelic realm followed him. Now, as I have said before, the 'created' cannot be greater than the 'Creator.' Does satan exist? You bet your bippy he does. Through Jesus, and by His power within us, we can withstand these attacks from the enemy. Jesus preached on hell more than He did Heaven.

Holy Father, I come to You in the Awesome Name of Jesus....the Name above all names....Your Only Begotten Son. I come in humility to plead this case of blindness to the truth. These posters have scales on their eyes. I ask, Lord of Hosts, to remove them so that they can see the Truth for themselves.....no longer doubting.....no longer questioning, so they can experience the Majestic nature of You, O Holy One. We all stand in agreement, asking the Holy Spirit to touch their hearts, to lead them to You. All of their sins will be forgiven. They will stand as clean and fresh as the snow, yearning for knowledge. They will be robed in Your Righteousness, as Your child. That's what happened to me so many years ago and I'm asking You to give this to them. They are seeking......knock on that door to their hearts. I claim their souls for Your Glory, Lord, so that You will receive all Praise and Honor. You are mighty, and worthy of Praise. Thank You for hearing my prayer and answering it quickly, for time is short, Lord. This we do know. Thank You, Lord for what You are about to do. Give them the peace and stillness that only You can give, as You are THE Shepherd and we are Your flock. For I ask in the Beautiful Name of Jesus, Amein.

 

closetsmokr

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Whoa! What a thread. I applaud you awesome people speaking the truth. What got me is the offense taken by the newer posters to the words 'satan follower,' to put it nicely. If an atheist doesn't believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, then why the offense? Wouldn't they automatically not believe in satan as well? I ask because I honestly don't know the answer to that question. That makes logical sense to me. Why would that offend? Could it be that they believe that satan exists? And if they do, why wouldn't they want to believe in God to save them from that self-centered, pedestal stanced, (by his own making) fallen angel that seems to want to steal, kill, and destroy. Lucifer is a created being.....an angel who was in charge of worship of God in Heaven, until he wanted the worship for himself. He was kicked out, and 1/3 of the angelic realm followed him. Now, as I have said before, the 'created' cannot be greater than the 'Creator.' Does satan exist? You bet your bippy he does. Through Jesus, and by His power within us, we can withstand these attacks from the enemy. Jesus preached on hell more than He did Heaven.

I won't re-hash the issues about the interpretations of the alleged "only two choices" ideas. I already explained that saying that people who don't openly profess their Christianity are not therefore worshiping or otherwise following (puposefully or not) satan. I will simply answer your question about why it is offensive.

Most societies, the US included, have established a very particular idea of what worshiping satan means - pentagrams, sacrifices, killing other people, and so on. There is nothing passive about being a true satanist. It is not commonly thought that children of satan, satan worshipers, or whatever terms you wish to apply, are passively evil. My point is, when you say that a group of people (i.e. atheists or any other non-Christians) are or any individual is somehow worshiping the devil, you are applying a very strong, negative label. If the people or person you apply this label to are not doing what you assert, then you are misrepresenting them. Atheists may not believe in heaven, hell, Jesus, God, Satan, etc, but I do know a few who are offended by being affiliated with Satan. I actually asked them recently in light of this thread.They are no more affiliated with Satan than a Buddist.
 
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Southern Gent

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Atheists may not believe in heaven, hell, Jesus, God, Satan, etc, but I do know a few who are offended by being affiliated with Satan. I actually asked them recently in light of this thread.They are no more affiliated with Satan than a Buddist.

They need to take it up with the one who said it. They ARE affiliated "Thus saith the Lord"
 

closetsmokr

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Atheists may not believe in heaven, hell, Jesus, God, Satan, etc, but I do know a few who are offended by being affiliated with Satan. I actually asked them recently in light of this thread.They are no more affiliated with Satan than a Buddist.

They need to take it up with the one who said it. They ARE affiliated "Thus saith the Lord"

That is between them and God, if they so wish to ever persue it. But, it is not up to "man" to cast the first stone. Again, it's a matter of being aware of the implications of a label you are applying to someone in the context of day to day life.

You know that post a couple pages back of Homer Simpson with his head on the table - I know that feeling as well...
 

Southern Gent

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That is between them and God, if they so wish to ever persue it. But, it is not up to "man" to cast the first stone. Again, it's a matter of being aware of the implications of a label you are applying to someone in the context of day to day life.

You know that post a couple pages back of Homer Simpson with his head on the table - I know that feeling as well...

Here's the point you are missing. It is up to man to make them aware of their sin and sometimes that can be offensive and will always be offensive to some.
 
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