ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS (old and new!)

[Kent C]

Well, at least all of this actually ended up actually helping SOMEONE.

Thanks for the heads up. I would have missed it in all the commotion. I was looking for Parked to take up Spikey's offer. (Where's the tongue in cheek smiley?)

 

[The Wiz]

Wow.....This is great...I was really missing the "Lets go over to the ECF(Because we have not given our favorite ECF moderator any attention lately)And raise some you know what" Thanks once again for the entertainment! Grow up folks and leave it there!The Wiz!

 

[Eric in AK]

I always wondered about that... lol. Now I know. I've only ordered juice and some carts from them.

Glad I could help and unlike some of the people that will get gifts this xmas, you won't regret getting a full 510 kit.

Yeah...some of us are probably getting burned out atomizers in our stockings at xmas.... and here I'd sworn to be a good boy this year....

 

[Walrus]

Wow.....This is great...I was really missing the "Lets go over to the ECF(Because we have not given our favorite ECF moderator any attention lately)And raise some you know what" Thanks once again for the entertainment! Grow up folks and leave it there!The Wiz!

Wiz, not everyone who chimed in is on/in both forums, not everyone who participates on both is interested in any kind of forum war, and there were some valid points made amongst all the pithy back and forth.

Sometimes you gotta stop being a cheerleader and pay attention to the game.

 

[The Wiz]

Wiz, not everyone who chimed in is on/in both forums, not everyone who participates on both is interested in any kind of forum war, and there were some valid points made amongst all the pithy back and forth.

Sometimes you gotta stop being a cheerleader and pay attention to the game.

Walrus.....I know we had a few wanderlust souls in on this thread...My Crystal Ball gives me the ability to read in-between the posts.After reading through it all(I am always the last in line it seems),I came to the conclusion that it was unneccesary.....there are no winners in situations like these...as you stated well in your Edit!!The Wiz!

 

[Kent C]

Walrus.....I know we had a few wanderlust souls in on this thread...My Crystal Ball gives me the ability to read in-between the posts.After reading through it all(I am always the last in line it seems),I came to the conclusion that it was unneccesary.....there are no winners in situations like these...as you stated well in your Edit!!The Wiz!

Hey Wiz,

The new member that got his first 510 is a winner. Good to see you here.

Kent

 

[The Wiz]

Hey Wiz,

The new member that got his first 510 is a winner. Good to see you here.

Kent

Kent...You too my friend! If even one member benifited from the message of this thread...then good for them...What happened to the days of helping people? Like when people used to help us?....My God who cares whether it was ethical or unethical to "Plug Freddo'"....I sure don't!! No cheerleading involved here....just sick of the crap!!The Wiz!

 

[gooney0]

I think we need to give the mods a little slack. The title of the thread is misleading. That issue has been addressed.

It just isn't reasonable to assume the OP has evil intent. We need to give posters the benefit of the doubt. Somewhere there is a real person behind a keyboard. Without further evidence of bias, or trickery I wouldn't accuse her of such things.

I'm using this site for free. Someone else is paying the upkeep. Other people are volunteering (i presume) to moderate. I'm not entitled to anything.

I don't pay taxes to the ECF, nor do I serve jury duty. This also means I don't get free speech or the right to vote. If you have a contract with the ECF take it up with them through proper channels.

If mods have more "free speech" than we do... good they've earned it.

Thank you for the terrific site and forums guys,

-Gooney0

P.S. I'd suggest deleting this thread altogether and closing the matter. Moderators don't deserve insults anymore than users do.

 

[Sebastian]

I just wanted to pop in and say hey....heard it through the grapevine that suppliers could get free advertising on this thread. That is quite simply short of spectacular!!!

HA

 

[Nuck]

Wow.....This is great...I was really missing the "Lets go over to the ECF(Because we have not given our favorite ECF moderator any attention lately)And raise some you know what" Thanks once again for the entertainment! Grow up folks and leave it there!The Wiz!

Do you have any idea how insulting your post is to the overwhelming majority of VF members that care nothing about the forum war?

 

[Kent C]

Kent...You too my friend! If even one member benifited from the message of this thread...then good for them...What happened to the days of helping people? Like when people used to help us?....My God who cares whether it was ethical or unethical to "Plug Freddo'"....I sure don't!! No cheerleading involved here....just sick of the crap!!The Wiz!

Ok. I just didn't think it was that good of a deal no matter who was selling it or promoting it. Others think differently, but I thought my view was as valid as any. It's opinion. And evidently I made a good case for at least one person.

 

[TnA]

Wiz, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I've always enjoyed your posts and have always found your posts to be friendly, cheerful, helpful and positive in nature....even in the past ones where you were starting to feel down.

While I see your point, I have started to become disillusioned with this forum and find myself spending less and less time in here, as of late. This is due to the restrictiveness placed on me, that goes with my new status as a vendor. I've thoroughly enjoyed helping out noobs and providing my input on suppliers and their products. However, the rules have restricted me from doing such as a vendor and I have done my best to follow those rules, although I constantly feel like I'm being prevented from helping out forum members.

So, with that said.....I think that it is only fair that if I am going to follow the forum rules, I should be able to expect the moderators of this forum to also follow the rules, both the ones actually written as well as those that are ethical.

I do not desire to withhold information from anyone, nor be the cause of it. I would definitely desire a forum that is far more free in allowing it's members to provide such great information to everyone....but then, IMO, it should be a freedom for all to enjoy....not just the select few.

Just my .02 and I still enjoy seeing you around and providing your sane input to any discussion.

 

[The Wiz]

Do you have any idea how insulting your post is to the overwhelming majority of VF members that care nothing about the forum war?

Nuck....Did mention your name?... I know how You feel about about things(as well as several other members there).Any comments I made were in reference to those members who had some free time today to worry about something that was posted over here and more time to make a stink about it!The Wiz!

 

[TnA]

I think we need to give the mods a little slack. The title of the thread is misleading. That issue has been addressed.

It just isn't reasonable to assume the OP has evil intent. We need to give posters the benefit of the doubt. Somewhere there is a real person behind a keyboard. Without further evidence of bias, or trickery I wouldn't accuse her of such things.

I'm using this site for free. Someone else is paying the upkeep. Other people are volunteering (i presume) to moderate. I'm not entitled to anything.

I don't pay taxes to the ECF, nor do I serve jury duty. This also means I don't get free speech or the right to vote. If you have a contract with the ECF take it up with them through proper channels.

If mods have more "free speech" than we do... good they've earned it.

Thank you for the terrific site and forums guys,

-Gooney0

P.S. I'd suggest deleting this thread altogether and closing the matter. Moderators don't deserve insults anymore than users do.

Gooney0, you've made some very good points that are without question, as to the status of being a member in ECF.

Just a couple of rebuttals to some of your statements, though. You are correct that the title of this thread is misleading and has been addressed. Unfortunately, the OP of this thread has admitted to it and yet has not made an effort to address that fact nor to make amends in any way. Instead, she chose to lash out at other people and take a defensive stance. This is very bothersome to me as a forum member who must rely on the moderators to provide us with a smoothly running forum to discuss and share ideas about these wonderful products.

I certainly did not suggest (nor would I have even considered it) that there was any evil or malicious intent behind the OP's actions....just that it seem to lack ethics. However, when a question like that is raised and the person being questioned chooses to become defensive and lash out with accusations at others, it usually makes things look fishy.

I've been a member here for a few months. I've enjoyed learning as much as I have from this forum and from the veterans of this forum. In turn, I learned the joys of assisting new users and providing my input on different PVs, liquids, and mod and DIY tricks. When I became a supplier, my freedom to do those things were taken from me (and I completely understand the rationale behind it). So, no matter how much it bothered me to no longer do those things I enjoyed, I faithfully followed the rules of this forum. All I ask in return is that the members who are responsible for running this forum also follow the rules. Many veterans have become disillusioned and turned off from this forum due to the way it has morphed and changed through the months. This is a sad thing since this forum has also lost a lot of the wealth of knowledge and experience that was held by those members. I sincerely believe that the type of moderation that has been experienced in my short time here is a major reason/cause of this. If we do not speak out about this to try to fix this problem, it will continue to happen and this forum will continue to lose the veterans that we need to keep around to make this a better place.

I'm sorry if this looked to be a personal attack. It was not intended to be so. However, there has to be some people out there who are willing to take a stand and speak out when things just seem wrong to insure this forum stays the great forum that it was when I was first introduced to it.

 

[The Wiz]

Wiz, I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. I've always enjoyed your posts and have always found your posts to be friendly, cheerful, helpful and positive in nature....even in the past ones where you were starting to feel down.

While I see your point, I have started to become disillusioned with this forum and find myself spending less and less time in here, as of late. This is due to the restrictiveness placed on me, that goes with my new status as a vendor. I've thoroughly enjoyed helping out noobs and providing my input on suppliers and their products. However, the rules have restricted me from doing such as a vendor and I have done my best to follow those rules, although I constantly feel like I'm being prevented from helping out forum members.

So, with that said.....I think that it is only fair that if I am going to follow the forum rules, I should be able to expect the moderators of this forum to also follow the rules, both the ones actually written as well as those that are ethical.

I do not desire to withhold information from anyone, nor be the cause of it. I would definitely desire a forum that is far more free in allowing it's members to provide such great information to everyone....but then, IMO, it should be a freedom for all to enjoy....not just the select few.

Just my .02 and I still enjoy seeing you around and providing your sane input to any discussion.

TnA....From a supplier perspective I understand your concerns....and reservations on being an active member here for such reasons....But let me ask you this(and please be honest)If another Moderator had posted this thread such as Sun or Jim Davis...would this have been as big of an issue as it has become?....If so I will ask Lu herself to apologise to the members of the forum!!The Wiz!

 

[Walrus]

My God who cares whether it was ethical or unethical to "Plug Freddo'"....I sure don't!! No cheerleading involved here....just sick of the crap!!The Wiz!

The problem is, obviously, that many people actually do care. Some are vendors, some are not. I imagine there would be many more who care that aren't even aware of it... how many vendors are there on here? I'm sure they all wouldn't mind equal billing.

Ok. I just didn't think it was that good of a deal no matter who was selling it or promoting it. Others think differently, but I thought my view was as valid as any. It's opinion. And evidently I made a good case for at least one person.

I agree in that the battery is smaller than a 510, and only one comes with the pack. The real losers in all of this are the 'bargain hunting' new vapers who end up with an ecig they can use for about an hour to an hour and a half, drop it in disgust for a pack of analogs, and never give vaping a second chance.

 

[Walrus]

TnA....From a supplier perspective I understand your concerns....and reservations on being an active member here for such reasons....But let me ask you this(and please be honest)If another Moderator had posted this thread such as Sun or Jim Davis...would this have been as big of an issue as it has become?....If so I will ask Lu herself to apologise to the members of the forum!!The Wiz!

I know the question wasn't to me, but I'll answer it anyway.

If any moderator had posted it in the same fashion, ie the exclamation icon and all caps ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS, I would have said the exact same things in the exact same fashion. It all could have been precluded with a more appropriate title, like "Hey everyone, here's a good deal." It might have drawn some criticism, but nothing like the level this has seen.

As it is, it appeared to be a forum announcement, and drew many more viewers than it would have otherwise.

[edit] just realized that I didn't exactly answer the question. Sure... because it was Lu a few more people came in to stir things up. But they wouldn't have had anything to stir if the post had been made differently... or even handled differently afterwards. When confrontation is invited, it is usually received. Not everyone who got confrontational was from there.

 

[TnA]

TnA....From a supplier perspective I understand your concerns....and reservations on being an active member here for such reasons....But let me ask you this(and please be honest)If another Moderator had posted this thread such as Sun or Jim Davis...would this have been as big of an issue as it has become?....If so I will ask Lu herself to apologise to the members of the forum!!The Wiz!

OMG Wiz! I can sincerely and honestly state that my posts did not have anything to do with "who" the OP was! Had it been any other moderator, I would have still stated the same concern and asked the same question.

If you are asking me if I think this thread blew up to the extent it has because it was specifically Lu, then my answer would be "yes, it probably is the reason".

But if this is the reason, then the question that should be asked is "why does Lu provoke so much thread activity and not other moderators?

The unfortunate fact is that I have yet to see Sun or Jim take defensive stances when questioned, nor have I seen them conduct themselves in any way that didn't seem "fair, impartial, or unbiased".

Fact of the matter is, in speaking about this specific thread, Lu has even admitted that she could have handled her initial post better, but instead of addressing that and making amends, she chose to take a defensive stance and then counter attack. These are not the type of actions that a moderator should feel the need to take.

Lu's been around a long time and has done great things for this forum and for vaping.....so I certainly do not wish her any ill will nor am I clamoring for her to step down as a moderator. All I ask is for fair and impartial moderation and if you make a mistake, admit it and make amends and be done with it.

*edit* ok...it's late and I need to be up in 3 hours to go for my morning run (gawd I hate running!) so I'll say good night to all and will pick up this discussion in the morning. Just wanted to add a final statement: we're all human and we all err. it's not a secret and it's certainly not a rarity. so why should humility and admitting to error be a rarity? it shouldn't and it isn't. the even-keeled person will understand and accept any admittance of error...but a first step must always be taken to be forgiven.

Good night all

 

[The Wiz]

I know the question wasn't to me, but I'll answer it anyway.

If any moderator had posted it in the same fashion, ie the exclamation icon and all caps ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS, I would have said the exact same things in the exact same fashion. It all could have been precluded with a more appropriate title, like "Hey everyone, here's a good deal." It might have drawn some criticism, but nothing like the level this has seen.

As it is, it appeared to be a forum announcement, and drew many more viewers than it would have otherwise.

[edit] just realized that I didn't exactly answer the question. Sure... because it was Lu a few more people came in to stir things up. But they wouldn't have had anything to stir if the post had been made differently.

Walrus....The exclamation icon drew me to the thread as well....so obviously it was an "Attention Getter".Was it right to add that?..In Lu's case I would guess not.....I do know that because it was Lu who did it alot more was made over it than would have been with another Moderator....My advice to Lu would be to use in front of any important info she wishes to share with the forum....it has always worked for me!!I am off to bed now so I can work on my "Peace Out" speech!....As I am done trying to keep it!The Wiz!

 

[ZambucaLu]

And on that note, I am going to close this thread for the time being because God knows what I might wake up to!

Thanks Wiz, it was nice seeing you again (outside of the Vet's Forum anyway...lol)

'Nite all!

Oh, I forgot to take your suggestion

Is that better?

Lu